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Thread: Bonita Papers

  1. #1

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    Well I am skimming over the Bonita Papers again and I find myself sqirming around in my seat and frowning all the time. There are just so many things in there that are incredible (unbelievable) and that are never discussed. Does anybody want to go over this document again and pick out some of the things that don't seem true? I've been wanting to do this for a very long time because there are just so many things that I question. I put this here instead of the Bonita Papers thread because i thought we could just go read over there and post back here. So anyway if anyone is game please go read them over and then join in. I'll start with one thing I'm having trouble believing.
    Not a quote, just from what I remember:

    Patsy's chin had started to recede so she had chin reconstruction surgery in the summer of 1996.

    First of all I wonder if this is true at all. It seems like just having been declared healthy from stage 4 ovarian cancer and going through all that heavy chemo and whatever else she had to do I wonder if Patsys receding chin was really so important to her that she would go through a medical procedure to correct it. Now I know everything about Patsy and her family had to perfect but to go this far after the cancer treatments seems a bit extreme to me. And I have never read about this anywhere else. But the biggie to me is this happened in the summer of 1996?? Is that the summer she went to Texas and came back with a big diamond ring on her finger?( I think I'm going to go look at some Patsy pictures and compare the old chin with the new chin.) I'll post back here tomorrow with my opinion because it's getting really late and I need to go to bed. If anybody else cares to go look let me know what you think. But in the meantime, what say you all to this revelation?

  2. #2
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    Yes, those Bonita Papers have always fascinated me too, Karen. Every now and then I fall over them and get trapped for a spell. I don't really have the time right now, but going by what you have just stated, I hardly think Patsy would go though the agony of more medical procedures after chemo therapy treatment.

    Are you looking at this with the thought Patsy may well have been worn out and frazzled with all the medical procedures in 1996 and this may have added to her state of health? If so, she also had their home on the Boulder Tour list. Is it any wonder this woman snapped. Patsy Ramsey sure pushed herself to the edge of despair. I blame Nedra Paugh for these end results with her daughter.

    Truthfully, I don't remember this part or the diamond ring. There's a lot of reading in those Bonita Papers.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  3. #3
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    Arrow Karen,

    Thanks for starting this. I must tell you that I have had the niggling thought lately to go back and read these just because they do contain so much info. So now you've pushed me into it.

    Right off the bat I see the initials of SBTC from John's Subic bay experience. The connection that jumps to mind is that the writer of the RN wanted to make the connection with his past military experience. She linked so many other clues to others why not the military?

    Then there was the sentence that JBR entered 8-10 pageants. Nothing more added to that sentence. Do I understand that in her several years of doing this she only entered 10 pageants as the most? Unbelievable! Also stated was that both John and Patsy supported her pageants and that JBR excelled in the talent competition. I don't want to speak ill of the dead but what little I saw of her singing and dancing I didn't think she was very good. Now maybe in relationship to the other little girls she was better. I don't know that because we haven't seen any of the others. But am I wrong here? Her little song about being a Cowboys Sweetheart was off key.

    Well that was about as far as I read today. Picky picky picky me. I know. What do you think anyway?
    "When are we going to get our heads out of the sand and understand that sometimes really nice people who look good on the outside are dastardly on the inside." Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, MA

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Yes, those Bonita Papers have always fascinated me too, Karen. Every now and then I fall over them and get trapped for a spell. I don't really have the time right now, but going by what you have just stated, I hardly think Patsy would go though the agony of more medical procedures after chemo therapy treatment.

    Are you looking at this with the thought Patsy may well have been worn out and frazzled with all the medical procedures in 1996 and this may have added to her state of health? If so, she also had their home on the Boulder Tour list. Is it any wonder this woman snapped. Patsy Ramsey sure pushed herself to the edge of despair. I blame Nedra Paugh for these end results with her daughter.

    Truthfully, I don't remember this part or the diamond ring. There's a lot of reading in those Bonita Papers.
    Actually I'm thinking this story is not true at all and it makes me wonder about some of the other things in the B.Papers. I looked at photos of Patsy taken both before and after summer of 1996. I can't tell any difference in her chin. I haven't been able to find this story anywhere else. And yes, I think that after chemo, and being such a busy traveling ,vacationing mom in the summers, as well as finally being well enough to be able to do all of that again that she wouldn't have had a procedure like this done. I wonder if all the information she (the secretary)took was factual or if some of the Bonita Papers is her embellishment of the Ramsey story for her book?

  5. #5

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    Just saw this and good idea, Karen. I'll have to come back tomorrow and see how much I can get through, as yeah, it's been a long time and I'm always thinking I need to go back and read stuff--like the LE interviews, which I always find something new in when I re-read.

    I will say that I remember reading somewhere credible that Patsy had breast implants, and I am thinking I do remember reading she "rewarded" herself with a face lift after she finished her chemo and surgery treatments. I remember thinking that I'd be so sick and tired of doctors and medical care, I can't imagine volunteering to do that in her position, but then, I'm nothing like Patsy.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by zoomama View Post
    Thanks for starting this. I must tell you that I have had the niggling thought lately to go back and read these just because they do contain so much info. So now you've pushed me into it.

    Right off the bat I see the initials of SBTC from John's Subic bay experience. The connection that jumps to mind is that the writer of the RN wanted to make the connection with his past military experience. She linked so many other clues to others why not the military?

    Then there was the sentence that JBR entered 8-10 pageants. Nothing more added to that sentence. Do I understand that in her several years of doing this she only entered 10 pageants as the most? Unbelievable! Also stated was that both John and Patsy supported her pageants and that JBR excelled in the talent competition. I don't want to speak ill of the dead but what little I saw of her singing and dancing I didn't think she was very good. Now maybe in relationship to the other little girls she was better. I don't know that because we haven't seen any of the others. But am I wrong here? Her little song about being a Cowboys Sweetheart was off key.

    Well that was about as far as I read today. Picky picky picky me. I know. What do you think anyway?
    I agree. I think Jonbenet was adorable but I don't see that much talent in her. If I remember correctly there were a lot more than even 10 trophies and crowns in the photos. And that would be if she won all 10 pagents she entered. I don't think we've ever gotten to the truth of how many pagents she was in all in all. If only 9 or 10 then why have the intervention after Christmas about the Mega Jonbenet thing? I am still in the process of reading all the papers too. I have limited time on the computer so it may take me awhile. I'm so glad someone else wants to discuss these! I've always been interested in them. I just think there's something hinky going on with them. And it's obvious that these were written very early on in the case since some of the information has been disproven by now. Ok. Happy reading!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Just saw this and good idea, Karen. I'll have to come back tomorrow and see how much I can get through, as yeah, it's been a long time and I'm always thinking I need to go back and read stuff--like the LE interviews, which I always find something new in when I re-read.

    I will say that I remember reading somewhere credible that Patsy had breast implants, and I am thinking I do remember reading she "rewarded" herself with a face lift after she finished her chemo and surgery treatments. I remember thinking that I'd be so sick and tired of doctors and medical care, I can't imagine volunteering to do that in her position, but then, I'm nothing like Patsy.
    Ahhhh! So you think the chin reconstruction surgery was really a full blown facelift?? Wow, how vain could Miss Patsy be after getting a second chance at life!? I do remember the breast augmentation story. She got "them" after she and John were married. Like a year after or something. That was in Steve Thomas' book and I think also in DOI. I don't remember that much about what was going on in the summer of 1996, though. KoldKase, is that the summer Patsy came back from Texas with a huge rock on her finger and Jonbenets hair was bleached real light and Patsy said it was because of the sun? That sentence is way too long but I hope it makes sense. Also is that the summer John Ramsey had to kick in the basement window and shimmy through because he didn't have a key? (I don't believe his story.) Maybe the summer of 1996 was very eventful after all!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Ahhhh! So you think the chin reconstruction surgery was really a full blown facelift?? Wow, how vain could Miss Patsy be after getting a second chance at life!? I do remember the breast augmentation story. She got "them" after she and John were married. Like a year after or something. That was in Steve Thomas' book and I think also in DOI. I don't remember that much about what was going on in the summer of 1996, though. KoldKase, is that the summer Patsy came back from Texas with a huge rock on her finger and Jonbenets hair was bleached real light and Patsy said it was because of the sun? That sentence is way too long but I hope it makes sense. Also is that the summer John Ramsey had to kick in the basement window and shimmy through because he didn't have a key? (I don't believe his story.) Maybe the summer of 1996 was very eventful after all!
    Okay, I found one source for the "face lift" story, and it's a good one: Vanity Fair, Bardach's article early in the case. No specific date is given, though, it just says after the cancer treatments.

    http://www.bardachreports.com/articles/v_19971000.html

    Patsy's illness, according to one knowledgeable insider, was complicated by the fact that implants from a breast augmentation early in her marriage ruptured and needed additional surgery. Following her recovery, she celebrated by having a partial face lift.
    I believe she finished her last NIH cancer eval with surgery in summer 1994, but let me check on that. She was diagnosed in summer of 1993, that is mentioned in the above article, so that seems right. So a partial face lift in 199?, probably some months after the last very invasive cancer surgery, where she was opened up for biopsies in an exploratory that took 2 weeks almost to get released from the hospital, I think I remember reading in one of the LE interviews.

    Here's what JR said in 1998 LE interview:

    6 MIKE KANE: So we're talking about, since

    7 June of '93, his wife was diagnosed, till? When

    8 was the last treatment?

    9 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it's a 12-month program,

    10 as I recall. But she went in for surgery, but they

    11 just (INAUDIBLE) work. And then --

    12 MIKE KANE: Went back in.

    13 JOHN RAMSEY: -- went back in. And then

    14 they gave her one or two more treatments just for

    15 good measure. And that was it.

    16 MIKE KANE: And when was that concluded

    17 around?

    18 JOHN RAMSEY: It started right around '93,

    19 it would have been in the late summer of '94.


    [snip]

    25 MIKE KANE: Lost her hair, I guess, from

    0411

    1 the treatment?

    2 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, and around her body.


    3 But for that week or so when she was kind of back

    4 to being normal, life was just fairly normal.

    5 MIKE KANE: So in the late summer then of

    6 '94, her last treatment, was that part of the

    7 protocol, or did they stop the treatment because

    8 it seemed like --

    9 JOHN RAMSEY: No, the protocol was very

    10 defined: 12 treatments; surgery; and three more

    11 treatments.
    Because you had people who were on

    12 that same program that didn't have the success

    13 that she did.

    14 The most difficult thing for her, I think was that

    15 when they supposedly opened her up again with all

    16 sorts of biopsies and waiting for the results. If

    17 they found one cell, it didn't work. She was in

    18 trouble.

    19 MIKE KANE: So when that happened, she got

    20 the good news?

    21 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.

    22 MIKE KANE: And then a few more?

    23 JOHN RAMSEY: A few more treatments for

    24 good measure and that was part of the protocol;

    25 part of the experiment.

    0412

    1 MIKE KANE: So probably by September of '94


    2 (INAUDIBLE)?

    3 JOHN RAMSEY: I think so, yeah.
    So I'd say, with hair loss and the last exploratory surgery and last two cancer treatments ending in Sept. '95, surely she'd not go right into cosmetic surgery without giving her body a rest? So I'd think the earliest would have been in 1995? Just a guess, though.

    But if she had something done in 1996, maybe that was Patsy going back for a tune-up? She certainly wasn't averse to cosmetic surgery, it appears. So I guess I'm saying this "chin" work mentioned in the BPapers doesn't seem too out there...? I'll keep looking.

    Yes, all that JB bleached hair, Patsy wearing big diamond on return trip from Texas was the summer of 1996, I think. I recently found out Lockheed Martin has/had a big plant in Texas, so wondered if the Ramseys went there for a business trip with John. Just speculation, though.

    I don't buy JR's story about going in that window, either. I think it was broken by someone in that family, but when and whoever did it, JR certainly had no idea because what he described doing is not physically possible, as I've tried it.
    Last edited by koldkase; January 12, 2011, 2:15 am at Wed Jan 12 2:15:24 UTC 2011.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  9. #9

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    Here are Patsy's statements in her LE interviews:

    First, in 1997, Patsy confirms her cancer diagnosis and treatments began in July, 1993. Also, she discloses her implant surgery was in 1982, and they were found to be ruptured during her cancer treatments:

    TT: Um, I’m, going to talk about the medical stuff. I know you had cancer about three years ago?

    PR: It will be four years in July.

    TT: Okay.

    PR: I was diagnosed.

    TT: And you went out to Washington to take care of that.

    PR: Bethesda, Maryland.

    TT: Um hum.

    PR: (Inaudible)

    TT: Um, everything’s going okay with that?

    PR: Yes.

    TT: I know the stress . . .

    PR: Thank God.

    TT: I know the stress ca cause some problems with that. Are you doing okay with that so far?

    PR: Yeah, I just had a checkup.

    TT: Good.

    PR: Everything was great.

    TT: Good. Any other medical problems you’ve had other than the uh, the cancer.

    PR: Um no.

    TT: Any other surgeries? Spend time in the hospital, other than . . .

    PR: At times (inaudible) when I was a child.

    TT: Okay.

    PR: Uh. I had a breast augmentation.

    TT: Okay.

    PR: You probably, did you know about that?

    TT: (Inaudible)

    PR: No the world will know.

    TT: No. And actually uh, (inaudible) stuff like that, that staying here . . .

    PR: Okay.

    TT: . . .inside. That doesn’t get out. Um, when did you have that?

    PR: Oh, 1982 or 3 or something like that.

    TT: Okay, way back.

    PR: And then I had, when I was finishing my chemo and they were doing a chest x-ray and uh, suspected a rupture, so I had (paper rustling covers Patsy’s voice) locally at the (inaudible) hospital I had my Poriocath taken out, which was where I took my chemo and he went in and checked and both breast, whatever those are . . .

    TT: Right.

    PR: . . .had ruptured . . .

    TT: Right.

    PR: . . .and so he repaired the . . .

    TT: Okay. Spend any other time in the hospital?

    PR: (Paper rustling. Patsy’s response is inaudible.)


    This one was the 1998 interview:

    1 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, for obvious

    2 reasons, there was -- this was -- big change in

    3 our, you know, sexual life, because I was

    4 undergoing chemotherapy for nine months, and had

    5 a complete hysterectomy, which took several

    6 months to recover from.
    So summer, '93, to late '94 would seem a minimum amount of time for the cancer and health issues to run their course with the treatments?

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  10. #10

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    Thanks KoldKase. The Bonita Papers say she was diagnosed in July of 1993 and went into remission in 1995. So if she were in remission in 1995 I guess a year later doesn't seem so bad for more surgery, especially if it was for "fun" and something Patsy wanted. So that all adds up I guess.
    I don't believe I've read that article in Vanity Fair or at least if I did it was a long time ago. Thanks for the link. More reading to do! Have you heard some people say in an offhand way, "I've forgotten more about that than you'll ever KNOW" Well sometimes I think I've forgotten more about this case than I'll ever remember. It's fun to read all these old articles and the Bonita Papers again. That was surely a different time, wasn't it?

    Ok here is another item I took note of. Not a quote:

    Burke had a lack of self motivation and motor skill problems which made it difficult for him to transfer his thoughts to paper whether in the form of handwriting or typing.

    This makes me think that she was privvy to an interview of one or more of Burkes teachers who recalled that he had problems in this area. I don't remember Patsy or John saying anything about this in any of their interviews or in their book and I assume they would be the only two other people besides his teachers who would know this. Although it would certainly be a good defense against Burke having been the writer of the ransom note. I still think this sounds like something that would come from a teacher during an interview.

  11. #11

    Default Bonita Papers

    Hi all. I've always been intrigued by the Bonita Papers, I recently came across a binder where'd I'd printed the whole thing out so I could read it at my leisure.. secondary purpose of this post is to check my ability to post as I haven't logged in here in a long time..!! Been posting at Topix, but sheesh, there sure are a lot of jerks over there!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Actually I'm thinking this story is not true at all and it makes me wonder about some of the other things in the B.Papers. I looked at photos of Patsy taken both before and after summer of 1996. I can't tell any difference in her chin. I haven't been able to find this story anywhere else. And yes, I think that after chemo, and being such a busy traveling ,vacationing mom in the summers, as well as finally being well enough to be able to do all of that again that she wouldn't have had a procedure like this done. I wonder if all the information she (the secretary)took was factual or if some of the Bonita Papers is her embellishment of the Ramsey story for her book?
    According to KK's research she sure had to keep up her appearance and be 100% perfect in every way. Once again I blame Nedra Paugh for this behaviour. I think Patsy and sister Pam were absoluterly driven by Nedra, a very dominant woman. Patsy definitely had the drive to always be on show. I also think John Ramsey was very proud of his trophy wife.

    I wouldn't mind finding out more about the secretary too, Karen.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.



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