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Thread: Bonita Papers

  1. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by WVSleuth View Post
    Hi all. I've always been intrigued by the Bonita Papers, I recently came across a binder where'd I'd printed the whole thing out so I could read it at my leisure.. secondary purpose of this post is to check my ability to post as I haven't logged in here in a long time..!! Been posting at Topix, but sheesh, there sure are a lot of jerks over there!!
    Welcome back, WVS. Yeah, I find it almost maddening trying to wade through the fruitloops at topix now to get to actual serious discussion. It's why I seldom post there anymore.

    In hindsight, a lot of info in the Bonita Papers has not only turned out to be true and remarkably detailed, but so much has withstood the test of time and info that has been released/leaked/published eventually.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  2. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    I don't believe I've read that article in Vanity Fair or at least if I did it was a long time ago. Thanks for the link. More reading to do! Have you heard some people say in an offhand way, "I've forgotten more about that than you'll ever KNOW" Well sometimes I think I've forgotten more about this case than I'll ever remember. It's fun to read all these old articles and the Bonita Papers again. That was surely a different time, wasn't it?
    I feel your pain. If people weren't bringing stuff up and I weren't having to go back and check info all the time, I wouldn't remember most of what I once knew in this case.


    Ok here is another item I took note of. Not a quote:

    Burke had a lack of self motivation and motor skill problems which made it difficult for him to transfer his thoughts to paper whether in the form of handwriting or typing.

    This makes me think that she was privvy to an interview of one or more of Burkes teachers who recalled that he had problems in this area. I don't remember Patsy or John saying anything about this in any of their interviews or in their book and I assume they would be the only two other people besides his teachers who would know this. Although it would certainly be a good defense against Burke having been the writer of the ransom note. I still think this sounds like something that would come from a teacher during an interview.
    That's an interesting quote you have picked out there. And your thoughts on it are intriguing, as well. Good thinking. Who would know that about Burke back than? It certainly sounds like a professional assessment based on his historical record, as opposed to an interview with a child psychiatrist.

    It certainly sounds like Burke couldn't have written the ransom note. I know, I know...but I have found that members of my close family often have similar handwriting style, amazingly enough, so I have thought about that. Of course I have. I've thought about so much in this case, it's a wonder my brain doesn't stage a major pout and refuse to do another thing.

    Thanks for taking the time to bring this up, Karen. I've been very busy looking up some other stuff in this case the last few days, and it snowed like crazy here this week, meaning lots of other things to do. So I'll try to catch up in the next couple of days.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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    3 Dimensional

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    My opinions, nothing more.

  3. #15

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    I read through the whole thing earlier today and noted some things I wanted to discuss but right now I just wanted to opine that it seems to me this "author" seemed to be leaning towards a "John did it" scenario. Not that she's making stuff up but that she seems to paint John in a more sinister light and Patsy as a naive follower. If I hadn't sat and read it all the way through in one sitting I doubt if I would have been able to catch that "flavor" of the Bonita Papers. That's just the feeling I got.

  4. #16

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    "Fleet diagramed the position of the body in the wine cellar. This positioning was inconsistant with Johns description when he found Jonbenet."

    Somebody is lying. What I don't understand is why, and what does it accomplish for eithor one of them to lie about that? They are the only two who saw her down there. So it is one persons word against the other. One thing I do believe. IMO, I know who's lied before, and who hasn't. That's all I'm saying. Now, we know what JR has said. I wonder what Fleet said. How in the world was she positioned anyway? What could JR possibly get out of this lie?

  5. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    "Fleet diagramed the position of the body in the wine cellar. This positioning was inconsistant with Johns description when he found Jonbenet."

    Somebody is lying. What I don't understand is why, and what does it accomplish for eithor one of them to lie about that? They are the only two who saw her down there. So it is one persons word against the other. One thing I do believe. IMO, I know who's lied before, and who hasn't. That's all I'm saying. Now, we know what JR has said. I wonder what Fleet said. How in the world was she positioned anyway? What could JR possibly get out of this lie?
    There has always been a question in my mind about the position of the body because, thanks to Schiller, we finally got to see the "position" of the hands and arms while the body was still in the home, and it is not what we've been led to believe by the media, as I've understood it.

    This just leaves me with more questions, because the body, especially the arms and hands, were said to be in full rigor when John brought the body up at approx. 1 pm. Yet here are two photos, taken by the coroner/medical examiner/assist./LE, of the body upstairs before it was removed. One photo is before the hands were bagged, in one position, where the hand can be seen with the cord still on the wrist--right hand, I believe. It's hard to tell from this edited photo how the hand was positioned to the rest of the body, but it does appear to be in the "raised" position, though not something like a bondage type of positioning often discussed. It could be that we're looking at the back of the head, with the ponytail in the hair decoration at the top, and the hand is in front of the face, just can't tell.

    Then the second photo is definitely not what I expect: the body is laid on its side and the arms/hands appear to be IN FRONT of the face/head. The hands are bagged this time by LE to preserve evidence. So how did the hands get in THAT position? Very confusing. Brother Moon says they rigor was broken for the photo, to get a good picture of the spots on the side of the face, but I would have to hear that from someone who was there or has a LE source, because that doesn't make sense to me when they could have taken photos of the side of the face by simply turning the body. Sorry, Brother, you know me, always needing proof.

    Now let me tell you what I wonder: was the rigor wearing off by 8 pm, when the coroner/medical examiner, Dr. Meyer, finally made it to the scene? Think about the implications of that: we've always wondered why on earth he took so long to get there. Why did he refuse to determine a time of death; was the rigor speeded up by the colder cellar room temp, and was it affected by the warmer temp upstairs? How much difference does temp and size make in the time sequence for a small child who weighs 48 lbs.?

    Here are the photos in question:

    WARNING!! CRIME SCENE PHOTOS OF BODY!! HEARTBREAKING!!



    Last edited by koldkase; January 14, 2011, 9:06 pm at Fri Jan 14 21:06:36 UTC 2011.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  6. #18

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    I'm afraid I have to agree with Brother Moon. Eithor the rigor was broken or it wore off. I think he broke it when he rolled her on her side. One thing is for sure. This is one of those case facts we will never know if we don't already know it.

  7. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    I'm afraid I have to agree with Brother Moon. Eithor the rigor was broken or it wore off. I think he broke it when he rolled her on her side. One thing is for sure. This is one of those case facts we will never know if we don't already know it.
    I agree with your last statement. But I hope we're both wrong. I hope some greedy person who was granted a collection of the PowerPoint photos orginally stolen from the BDA's office by Smit gets greedy again and sells them to someone who will release them in full, without the tricky editing that conceals enough to keep us from knowing the truth. That's been Team Ramseys' aim all along, IMO.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  8. #20

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    Re-reading the 1995 Christmas letter of the Ramseys, compliments of Patsy, and some things popped out that are relevant to this discussion, so thought I'd post it again.

    This was written late in 1995, and notice Patsy says, "Anyway, John was rewarded by parent company, Lockheed-Martin, by being elected an office [sic] of the company." Do we know what his position as an "officer of the company" was?

    Also, seems they're Texas and Phoenix bound for sports games...and that might answer the question of when they were in Texas in 1996, in Dallas for the Buffs--whatever team that is.

    It's amazing how things like this letter have been part of this case for so long they get buried through the years; but looking again, with more known about the evidence now, it's easier to focus on some things that jump out at me--"victories in the NOOD Races"..."VICTORY S.B.T.C.":
    http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/1995chr...newsletter.htm


    John and Patsy Ramsey 1995 Christmas Newsletter

    Twas a week before Christmas with a million things to do, And wouldn't you know it, Mom came down with the flu. Fortunately the gifts were all gotten and under the tree, But the Christmas cards didn't make it - as you can well see! So we'll take this opportunity to extend the Holiday Cheer. And be the first to wish you a Healthy & Happy New Year!

    We've finally given in to the computerized form letter! What better way to keep the high-tech industry in business!? Speaking of business, John and Access are going great guns. Europe has been successfully conquered with offices in every country except Norway! Mexico & Canada opened too. (Can you believe this grew out of our garage on Northridge?) Anyway, John was rewarded by parent company, Lockheed-Martin, by being elected an office of the company.

    All work and no play make John a dull boy, so he leaves plenty of time for the latter. This year John, John Andrew, and Melinda took the crew of the Miss America (our sailing sloop) to victories in the NOOD Races in Chicago and a 4th place division finish of the Chicago-Mackinac Island Race. Seventy-knot winds in the Mac race really made the finish line look pretty good! John Andrew is a freshman at CU here in Boulder, and Melinda is due to complete her Nursing Degree from MCG [Medical College of Georgia] in Augusta next June.

    Burke is busy in his third grade year at a new school named High Peaks. It is a Core Knowledge school which accesses high academics and personal achievement. He loves it! He continues with Boy Scouting and the piano. This winter he is the tallest guy on his basketball team. Summer on Charlevoix was spent taking golf and sailing lessons each day. Burke is quite the sailor!

    JonBenet too had a busy summer in Charlevoix. She was crowned Little Miss Charlevoix in a pageant in June and spent the rest of the summer riding in convertibles in various home-town parades throughout Michigan. She performed a patriotic tap & song for her talent. She and Burke both won ribbons in several decorated bicycle contests. In October, JonBenet become Little Miss Colorado, she rode on the "Good Ship Lollipop" float during the Boulder Christmas parade. (Grandpa Paugh built the float!) She waved and sang all along the parade route! She also takes piano, violin, and drama classes. Busy little Pre-kindergartener![sic] (Busy Mom hauling her around!)

    I continue to have good check-ups at NIH in Bethesda, MD. God has surely blessed me with energy and the ability to return to raising a family. I thank Him every morning when I wake up and see the sunrise reflecting on the Flatirons over Boulder. Please continue to keep us in your prayers.

    Hope your Christmas was merry and here's to 1996! By the time you read this we'll be cheering on the Buffs at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas and then on to the Fiesta Bowl in Phoenix! Thanks to everyone who visited us in Colorado or Charlevoix this year. Please come see us in 1996! Love to you all!

    The Ramseys
    Last edited by koldkase; January 14, 2011, 5:10 pm at Fri Jan 14 17:10:27 UTC 2011.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  9. #21

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    Okay, found out what the "Buff's" are, and it's the Buffaloes, a Colorado football team. The Cotton Bowl is in fact the stadium in which the 1996 game in question was played, against the Oregon Ducks, on Jan. 1st.

    You can read all about it here, if you care to: http://www.mmbolding.com/bowls/Cotton_1996.htm

    The Fiesta Bowl mentioned in the Ramsey Christmas letter was played on Jan. 2 in Phoenix, as Patsy stated: Nebraska vs Florida.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiesta_Bowl

    So the Ramseys started 1996 traveling to Dallas and Phoenix for bowl games. I couldn't help but think about how poignant Patsy's closing sentiment in the 1995 Christmas letter was, as the worst year of her life was about to begin:

    Hope your Christmas was merry and here's to 1996!

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  10. #22
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    That first photo is of JB's RIGHT hand, I believe. Her hands were up in that position in both photos, I see no discrepancies there. The only difference is that in the bottom photo her hands have been bagged.

    IT takes MUCH, MUCH more than rolling a body on its side to break rigor. Believe me. The muscle fiber are latched together and held in place very firmly. They actually have to be TORN to break rigor. Ask any funeral director. And it isn't easy. But it definitely did not happen just by rolling her on her side. By the time JB was in the morgue on the autopsy table, rigor was dissipating in her wrists, hands and shoulders, and her hands appear to be flaccid and droopy as she lay on that table. Her fingers not as flexed. Rigor pulls the finger joints and bends them towards the palms.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  11. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    That first photo is of JB's RIGHT hand, I believe. Her hands were up in that position in both photos, I see no discrepancies there. The only difference is that in the bottom photo her hands have been bagged.

    IT takes MUCH, MUCH more than rolling a body on its side to break rigor. Believe me. The muscle fiber are latched together and held in place very firmly. They actually have to be TORN to break rigor. Ask any funeral director. And it isn't easy. But it definitely did not happen just by rolling her on her side. By the time JB was in the morgue on the autopsy table, rigor was dissipating in her wrists, hands and shoulders, and her hands appear to be flaccid and droopy as she lay on that table. Her fingers not as flexed. Rigor pulls the finger joints and bends them towards the palms.
    Yes, thanks for the correction; it is the right hand.

    I think it would have been very strange for Dr. Meyer to break rigor at the home. What do you think? I know it's possible, but it seems easier just to turn her for the photo.

    So the first photo is of the back of her head, with the hands in front, and the second is of her from above, on her side? Or am I just getting all confused again? See the carpet under the shoulder/back? She seems to me to be on her side. So why is her bagged hand in FRONT of her face? And her head was said to be turned TO THE RIGHT SIDE. So that doesn't fit with this either.

    So would Dr. Meyer have to have broken rigor in her neck to turn her head, too? Or was rigor already wearing off, since it starts in the head, moves down to the arms and hands, and reverses in the same sequence? Which would seem to me to change the TOD.

    I'm so confused.

    DeeDee, do you know if the timeline for rigor in small children is shorter than with adults? And how would the cold basement room have affected this? I'm trying to remember if cold delays rigor and heat speeds it up? Or is it vice versa?

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  12. #24

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    I'm confused too. I had read in a forensic book about how easy it was to break rigor, so I just assumed rolling her could do that. Guess I'll have to look it up. But I'm also confused about her positioning as you are KoldKase. Oh DeeDee!! We need your help here!!



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