Page 9 of 20 FirstFirst ... 567891011121319 ... LastLast
Results 97 to 108 of 229

Thread: Bonita Papers

  1. #97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Texan View Post
    I have also seen the photos that show a similar abrasion on strangulation victims. When you see the pictures on the same page it is very striking how similar they are. I don't remember where they are but I feel sure there is at least a link to them on this forum somewhere and I've seen it in the last 3 or 4 months somewhere. I will try to find them.
    The ligature pictures I've looked at that have a mark on the front of the neck always have a ligature that is knotted. I would expect a knotted ligature to make abrasions, etc., as it is tightened and rolled up to its resting place.

    But again, my opinion, here, is not worth much.

  2. #98

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    Well, that's the probem I have with the bruise, Fr. B. If that triangular bruise was caused by the ligature rolling up the neck, why only in the one place? kk wondered if it might be because JBR's head was turned to the right making the sternomastoid muscle prominent. My opinion means little but if I had to bet money, I'd say that bruise was caused by something other than the cord.
    It just occurred to me that the nameless perpetrator might have chosen ligature strangulation partly because of the presence of this bruise, in a desire to confound the issue.

    Why not put a pillow over her face? So much easier, faster and kinder.

  3. #99
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Southern Silicon Valley !!
    Posts
    2,285

    Exclamation

    Oh my goodness! What an interesting point, Fr.Brown. Yes, kinder and more gentle for sure. Again with all the misdirection that JR was so good at.
    "When are we going to get our heads out of the sand and understand that sometimes really nice people who look good on the outside are dastardly on the inside." Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, MA

  4. #100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fr brown View Post
    It just occurred to me that the nameless perpetrator might have chosen ligature strangulation partly because of the presence of this bruise, in a desire to confound the issue.

    Why not put a pillow over her face? So much easier, faster and kinder.
    That's what I have always conjectured. The ligature was tied in an attempt to explain the bruising.

    I've always reasoned that you have an unconscious girl...probably hardly breathing, faint pulse. You have no external sign of head injury. An amateur would probably figure that:

    1. With no external sign of head injury, there will be no sign of head injury post mortem.

    2. I have a dead body, or a lifeless body on the verge of death, and I have a bruise on the neck. What to do?

    I, also, wondered if the one who tied the ligature even knew there was a head injury.....

    And, yes, you are right. If you have a lifeless, unconscious child, why not just pinch off the nose and hold the mouth shut????

    But I've also wondered. Was the head blow administed to knock JBR out so she would not suffer from the ligature application? If so, then, this would indicate a caring for the victim.

  5. #101
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In the Federal Witness Protection Program
    Posts
    1,311

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    That's what I have always conjectured. The ligature was tied in an attempt to explain the bruising.

    I've always reasoned that you have an unconscious girl...probably hardly breathing, faint pulse. You have no external sign of head injury. An amateur would probably figure that:

    1. With no external sign of head injury, there will be no sign of head injury post mortem.

    2. I have a dead body, or a lifeless body on the verge of death, and I have a bruise on the neck. What to do?

    I, also, wondered if the one who tied the ligature even knew there was a head injury.....

    And, yes, you are right. If you have a lifeless, unconscious child, why not just pinch off the nose and hold the mouth shut????

    But I've also wondered. Was the head blow administed to knock JBR out so she would not suffer from the ligature application? If so, then, this would indicate a caring for the victim.
    Yes, I agree. But as far as that last point- holding the nose/mouth shut- possibly there WAS a mark from twisting the red turtleneck, but even more likely, IMO is this:- with NO visible cause of death, all they had was a dead/dying child. How did she die? An autopsy would certainly have been needed, and revealed the molestation (after all, she bled from the vagina- SOMETHING caused that- something not within the scope of normal activity for a 6-year old). I think that by making the (erstwhile) garrote, they hoped an autopsy would not be thought necessary. After all, there was now a very obvious cause of death.
    What they did not realize is that autopsies are mandatory in ALL suspicious deaths, and in ALL child deaths, suspicious or not.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  6. #102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    Yes, I agree. But as far as that last point- holding the nose/mouth shut- possibly there WAS a mark from twisting the red turtleneck, but even more likely, IMO is this:- with NO visible cause of death, all they had was a dead/dying child. How did she die? An autopsy would certainly have been needed, and revealed the molestation (after all, she bled from the vagina- SOMETHING caused that- something not within the scope of normal activity for a 6-year old). I think that by making the (erstwhile) garrote, they hoped an autopsy would not be thought necessary. After all, there was now a very obvious cause of death.
    What they did not realize is that autopsies are mandatory in ALL suspicious deaths, and in ALL child deaths, suspicious or not.
    Good point. It's very possible that a panicked-amateur might think the obvious cause of death (ligature strangulation) might make further investigation unwarranted.

  7. #103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zoomama View Post
    Oh my goodness! What an interesting point, Fr.Brown. Yes, kinder and more gentle for sure. Again with all the misdirection that JR was so good at.
    Personally, I don't think JR was involved at that point. Whatever you think of JR's alibi, he at least had one and it was good enough to convince the police that he'd been asleep in bed. Patsy, on the other hand, had no alibi and was cavorting around in the morning in the same clothes and makeup she'd had on the night before. If Patsy and John were involved in the murder/staging together, they'd both have their "I was asleep" alibis taken care of.

  8. #104
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Southern Silicon Valley !!
    Posts
    2,285

    Exclamation DeeDee, Learning and Fr.Brown,

    Come on! Do you really think that in this day and age (even 14 years ago at that) that anyone would think that an autopsy wouldn't be performed on a dead child found in the home? I hardly think that at all. I would bet that even in a rush as this must have been the perp had to KNOW that an autopsy must be done. Her death wasn't natural ergo an autopsy. Her death was at the hands of another ergo autopsy. She was only 6 years old and dead ergo autopsy. Am I wrong here?
    "When are we going to get our heads out of the sand and understand that sometimes really nice people who look good on the outside are dastardly on the inside." Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, MA

  9. #105
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In the Federal Witness Protection Program
    Posts
    1,311

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zoomama View Post
    Come on! Do you really think that in this day and age (even 14 years ago at that) that anyone would think that an autopsy wouldn't be performed on a dead child found in the home? I hardly think that at all. I would bet that even in a rush as this must have been the perp had to KNOW that an autopsy must be done. Her death wasn't natural ergo an autopsy. Her death was at the hands of another ergo autopsy. She was only 6 years old and dead ergo autopsy. Am I wrong here?
    WE know that. Many people would know that. But in that moment I believe the R's were not thinking that. They were thinking that if the cause of death were THAT obvious an autopsy might not be done.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  10. #106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zoomama View Post
    Come on! Do you really think that in this day and age (even 14 years ago at that) that anyone would think that an autopsy wouldn't be performed on a dead child found in the home? I hardly think that at all. I would bet that even in a rush as this must have been the perp had to KNOW that an autopsy must be done. Her death wasn't natural ergo an autopsy. Her death was at the hands of another ergo autopsy. She was only 6 years old and dead ergo autopsy. Am I wrong here?
    It's possible that a panicked person, in a completely unusual sitation for them, might reason in such a manner. Remember, if a Ramsey was involved in the coverup, this was certainly a situation completely out of their league. In other words, they weren't in the business of covering up a murder or horrible accident where a death resulted.

    Yet, I'm not saying this is why the ligature was tied...just saying it's a possibility.

  11. #107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    It's possible that a panicked person, in a completely unusual sitation for them, might reason in such a manner. Remember, if a Ramsey was involved in the coverup, this was certainly a situation completely out of their league. In other words, they weren't in the business of covering up a murder or horrible accident where a death resulted.

    Yet, I'm not saying this is why the ligature was tied...just saying it's a possibility.
    I have to agree with you Learnin'. I have always had the thought somewhere in my mind that Patsy was dumb? enough or naive? enough to believe that the ligature would be seen and determined to be the cause of death. I just don't think Patsy was knowlegable of forensics or how things really work in the real world. I can certainly see her thinking that the ligature would do the trick, no questions asked.
    Sometimes we need to remember not everyone is as interested in these true crimes and has not followed the particulars of what is and isn't done in these cases. I think Patsy definetly would fall in to that catagory of people. I think she was almost childlike and immature in her thinking and reasoning processes.

  12. #108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zoomama View Post
    Come on! Do you really think that in this day and age (even 14 years ago at that) that anyone would think that an autopsy wouldn't be performed on a dead child found in the home? I hardly think that at all. I would bet that even in a rush as this must have been the perp had to KNOW that an autopsy must be done. Her death wasn't natural ergo an autopsy. Her death was at the hands of another ergo autopsy. She was only 6 years old and dead ergo autopsy. Am I wrong here?
    I imagine that Patsy expected an autopsy would be done. Putting myself in her shoes, I'd say she wanted to portray the murder as something other than a rage killing.

    And since I think that Patsy was the sole perpetrator, I speculate that the strangulation was intended to fool John (as well as the police) about who dunnit. I don't think Patsy's interactions with JonBenet were silent that night. There must have been a lot of yelling during the turtleneck-stripping portion of the evening. If John came down in the morning and found his kid brained, he'd immediately jump to the obvious conclusion.
    Last edited by fr brown; March 15, 2011, 12:18 pm at Tue Mar 15 12:18:18 UTC 2011.



Similar Threads

  1. Bonita Papers
    By Karen in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 101
    Last Post: February 9, 2005, 11:35 pm, Wed Feb 9 23:35:31 UTC 2005
  2. The "Bonita Papers" - Unedited Notes From Ramsey Case Documents
    By Tricia in forum Evidence Files: Ramsey murder case
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: April 10, 2004, 1:55 am, Sat Apr 10 1:55:43 UTC 2004
  3. The Complete Bonita Papers
    By Spade in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: January 20, 2004, 1:13 pm, Tue Jan 20 13:13:02 UTC 2004

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •