Interesting photos

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by koldkase, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I found these on a website recently and I can't remember seeing them like this before--with a "heart" table at the foot of the bed. Maybe I've seen the cropped version, with the beds stripped, but for the life of me I can't remember that table.

    I think it's rather interesting how hearts are always popping up in this murder case. Thoughts?

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    Here are a couple of side shots of the room taken at what looks to be the same time. The table can been seen, though darkly. I am thinking these shots look like those published in a tab way back when. Believe it or not, I didn't buy tabloids for the first few years of this case. Took the Ramseys' to break down my wall of shame on this.

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  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Another interesting photo from that website--again, hearts on the gown, as well:

    I have no idea where this photo orginally came from, as it had no caption on a JBR website where I found it. Since I looked for a long time trying to locate a Barbie nightgown that might be similar to the one found in the basement with the body/blanket, and this looks like it might be from that time period, I thought I'd post it.

    The cloth it's lying on is curious. Almost like the way clothing that's evidence might be handled to collect forensic evidence? Maybe it's a vintage piece wrapped in cloth to preserve it? I have no idea.

    Is it the one found with the body? Again, I have no idea, but I'd be really surprised if it is because I've never even seen a reference to such a photo, which would be from the case file, obviously. I'm sure such a photo would be in the case files, but they didn't show it to Patsy that I can see in the 1998 interview where she was shown many photos and one of the gown in plastic, as I remember.

    As far as I know, few people would actually know what the original gown that belonged to JB looked like, outside the investigation and family. There must have been many styles available to purchase in 1996.


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  3. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    I finally see the stripes on that Barbie nightie now. Thank you for posting that enlargement!
    As far as the heart table, I suppose the reason we haven't seen it before is that the photos show the other twin bed next to JB's bed, but not the area beneath it. I have never seen the first 2 photos before, including the small, dark rectangle where a piece of JB's bedroom carpet was cut out by LE for testing. I assume this is where the fluoroscope indicated urine.
    I wouldn't make too much of the "hearts". They are a common theme for a lot of little girls, both clothing and room decor. And little girls also like to draw them! My daughter drew hearts on everything when she was young.
     
  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Well, I wouldn't make so much of the hearts, but you know...heart on hand?

    Patsy and John both denied seeing the heart on JB's hand at any time before she was found the next day. They said they discouraged JB from marking on herself, etc. Went into a lot of detail about that. When the Ramseys went into a lot of detail to deny something trivial, it makes me suspicious.

    This is the same heart Patsy told Haney in her '98 LE interview she saw "that morning" and considered was "well drawn"; and then she came back to the interview the next day and brought up first thing that she was mistaken about that and wanted to clear up that she hadn't really "seen" the heart, that she'd probably just read about it in the autopsy. You know, the autopsy she said she didn't read...unless it suited her to have read it, then suddenly she had. (Good catch, Armistead. I bet he couldn't wait to read her the riot act on the fact that she just told LE she had seen her child's hand that morning. MAJOR confession, but luckily for Patsy she was talking to the BDA "detectives" and she could have described how she murdered the child and they'd have helped her out of that one, too.)

    Another thing we can see in photos: JonBenet had a set of pavé diamond (fake?) earings she wore in pageant competition that were large hearts.

    Oh well. You're probably right. None of it matters anyway now.
     
  5. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    It still matters. I didn't mean to be dismissive. Just that I don't make much of a connection between the heart on her hand and the hearts on her table or clothing.
    I know Patsy "slipped" when she mentioned that "pretty good little heart". She SAW it. In the basement.
     
  6. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I don't mean to sound petulant, DeeDee. They don't have a :pout: icon here on my behalf. :yes: I don't know if I'm more frustrated at this point because we still have these questions or because I still think about them.

    It's not even certain the drawing on the hand is a heart. Looking at the photos in the case library, who knows? There even seem to be other marks on the hand.

    I do wonder what caused those bumps in the palm. It's seldom that the palm will show a rash like that. I keep trying to think of what would cause it. Some kind of chemical? Maybe something she got on her hand from her necklace/bead kit she'd been playing with that day/night?

    Or maybe someone tried to remove the heart/marks? Alcohol? Nail polish remover? Turpentine? Those might do it.

    I don't know about the section of carpet cut out. I vaguely remember discussions about it, but can't recall exactly what the testing revealed. Same with JAR's bedroom, which had sections like that cut out of the carpet. I'm thinking we never heard those results? Or I've forgotten, at any rate. Maybe someone else remembers more specifics?
     
  7. Karen

    Karen Member

    I seem to remember reading in PMPT about how when Patsy was going through her chemo and she would come home and invaribly in up in the hospital in Boulder because of infections or fatigue or something like that. Some kind of complication. Anyway, that is where Patsy started drawing the heart in Jonbenets hand. When the kids would come visit her in the hospital there she would draw a heart in Jonbenets palm and tell her it's because she carries her heart with her when they are apart or something like that. Of course Patsy denied EVER doing that.
     
  8. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Oh, thanks for remembering this. I was thinking I read somewhere that Patsy wrote on JonBenet's palm, but at this point I can't remember the details at all. Have you ever read "JonBenet's Mother"? I'm wondering if it could have been in that?
     
  9. Karen

    Karen Member

    I don't know where it came from eithor but it does look like the one found in the basement and the reason I say this is because when it was shown to Patsy she said she remembered a big Barbie head or face on the nightie JB had and this one has her whole body. Patsy distancing herslf once again, I suspect.
     
  10. Karen

    Karen Member

    I'm almost positive I read it is PMPT KoldKase. I have read all the books but I read PMPT first and I remember that standing out to me. One of the women friends told about it but I don't remember who it was. Guess I could look it up.
     
  11. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Oh, thanks, Karen! What a good idea! YOU look it up.... Perfect! :yes:
     
  12. Elle

    Elle Member

    There is mention of pineapple here too! Steve Thomas mentions the heart on her hand.

     
  13. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    Question?

    For lots of reasons old age being the most popular I had forgotten that JBR had twin beds in her room. Now my question is this: why would she go crawl into Burkes bed after she wet hers if she had the twin right there? I would guess that by her doing that Burke would know she had wet the bed and not welcome her into his if she had wet undergarments.
     
  14. Elle

    Elle Member

    Good question ZM. Why indeed would she? Funny how other thoughts come to us after a long spell of having gone over everything! (?). Trying to tie loose ends, probably!
     
  15. AMES

    AMES Member

    Before both of her beds in her room were stripped and collected as evidence...JB had TONS of stuffed animals on her other bed...maybe that is why she went into Burkes room, after wetting her bed. There wasn't any room on the other bed (in her room). This is where the "Santa Bear" was kept, that was such a "mystery" to Patsy.
     
  16. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Also, Burke had twin beds in his bedroom, as well.

    You know, now I'm wondering if JonBenet wouldn't have pulled off her own wet bottoms.

    Of course she would have, if she had awakened and realized she'd wet the bed. Patsy said JB put her own clothes on, so she'd take them off, as well.

    She wouldn't have just gone to another bed with the wet bottoms on, would she? She was six, she was used to being dressed in ways most of us adults have never been dressed, with hair, makeup, and costumes since she was four. Surely she knew to pull off wet pajama bottoms and panties.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2011
  17. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I was re-reading Patsy's '97 LE interview and yes, Burke also had twin beds in his room. They discuss JB sleeping in there sometimes. Then Patsy is asked directly about Christmas:

     
  18. AMES

    AMES Member

    Yeah, most likely she wouldn't have wanted to keep wet PJ bottoms and panties on. My three year old takes her own wet stuff off....when she has an accident, certainly JB would have done the same...at 6.
     
  19. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    In some photos, both beds are seen in BR's room, each with identical blue bedspreads. Much less messy than JB's room. In addition to all the stuffed animals on JB's bed, there were a lot of clothes on BOTH beds. Patsy was packing for her trips, and that was one reason, but their housekeeper said the house was always very messy. Even Patsy's mom Nedra used to complain to Patsy to keep it picked up so LHP could actually CLEAN it. The house did not have a hamper. There was a laundry chute that emptied in the basement near the laundry area, but LHP said the kids (and sometimes Patsy) just left their dirty clothes on the floor wherever they took them off.
     
  20. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I found this in the '97 LE interview with Patsy. She says JB would remove her wet clothes and leave them in the bathroom on the floor:

     
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