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  1. #73

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    I wonder why a few here think Jonbenet was going to wear the same outfit the following day when she woke up? Is it because Patsy said she was wearing her same outfit the next day? But do we believe that Patsy was actually going to do that or is the consensus that she just never changed out of her clothes that night because she didn't have time or whatever and so she had to explain to the police why she was already dressed and that is what she told police? Is that the reason some think JB was going to wear the same outfit the next day? Because think about it, that would be based on a lie if it were..... because Patsy said she was going to wear the same clothes. Also I don't see how JB's clothes were so very neatly laid out to be worn again. The vest is tossed on the bed haphazardly and the pants are sort of tossed laying on the trunk. I don't see how that translates into the clothes being laid out neatly to be worn the next day. They would have been wrinkled. The only two things laid out neatly are the scarf and the "socks"? To me If something were going to be worn again it would be laid out neatly alogside the scarf and "socks". (That scarf looks like it could be the original strangulation device, it's laid out TOO neatly.....just sayun'.)

    Jonbenet had LOTS of clothes as did Patsy. They didn't have to double up and Lord knows they were't worried about laundry because that was LHP's job. Didn't Patsy say in an interview the kids would get on the plane in their pj's because they would always leave so early in the morning?

    In going back and looking at that picture KoldKase posted I wonder if those are socks. They seem awful large for someone JB's age. It looks like a large white fabric. I would never have considered those as being socks if I hadn't see it written here by a poster. I wish those photos were clearer! It would answer a lot of speculation.

  2. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    "If she is not the one who placed the socks neatly side by side, then perhaps Patsy did, but I believe they were placed there to help get JBR dressed quickly the next morning for the early flight to Charlevoix."

    Yes, I think these clothes were supposed to be put on the next day. I, also, think she walked up those stairs just like Burke said. Now. Why are the pants in a different place? And. I also think the best time for lint and dust to stick to ones feet is when socks are first taken off and are still sweaty unless, of course, she walked across a surface that was damp.
    Maybe it was sock lint? Have you ever worn new socks and had lint come off between and around the toes? I don't remember anything about dust on her feet? I would also like to know what the inside of her boots were lined with.

  3. #75

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    OK I'm going to backtrack here for a minute and after looking at the picture of the bed and her pillow I have a question and observation. I noticed her pillow is situated longways. Not horizontally like we sleep on a pillow but the other way. And it doesn't look as if it's been laid on, like the puffy part to the right is smashed down. I'm wondering now if that was used that way while she was playing video games or watching videos? Wouldn't it be horizontal? Does anybody have any experience using a pillow like this?

  4. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    I wonder why a few here think Jonbenet was going to wear the same outfit the following day when she woke up? Is it because Patsy said she was wearing her same outfit the next day? But do we believe that Patsy was actually going to do that or is the consensus that she just never changed out of her clothes that night because she didn't have time or whatever and so she had to explain to the police why she was already dressed and that is what she told police? Is that the reason some think JB was going to wear the same outfit the next day? Because think about it, that would be based on a lie if it were..... because Patsy said she was going to wear the same clothes. Also I don't see how JB's clothes were so very neatly laid out to be worn again. The vest is tossed on the bed haphazardly and the pants are sort of tossed laying on the trunk. I don't see how that translates into the clothes being laid out neatly to be worn the next day. They would have been wrinkled. The only two things laid out neatly are the scarf and the "socks"? To me If something were going to be worn again it would be laid out neatly alogside the scarf and "socks". (That scarf looks like it could be the original strangulation device, it's laid out TOO neatly.....just sayun'.)

    Jonbenet had LOTS of clothes as did Patsy. They didn't have to double up and Lord knows they were't worried about laundry because that was LHP's job. Didn't Patsy say in an interview the kids would get on the plane in their pj's because they would always leave so early in the morning?

    In going back and looking at that picture KoldKase posted I wonder if those are socks. They seem awful large for someone JB's age. It looks like a large white fabric. I would never have considered those as being socks if I hadn't see it written here by a poster. I wish those photos were clearer! It would answer a lot of speculation.
    The reason I think those clothes, on the second bed, might be for JBR to put on the next day, Karen, is because they aren't thrown around the room like the rest of the stuff. It kinda makes sense if JBR only wore those socks and clothes for a few hours to the Whites. The socks, if they are socks, are laid out side by side very neatly. Makes me wonder why this neat person wouldn't have pulled the pink pajama top off the bed and tidied it up just a bit, also.

    Thomas states, in his book, that the coroner noticed "small bits of lint and dust on her feet". I, also, thought maybe it was lint from the socks but lint and dust kind of told me it was from standing on a dirty floor some where.

  5. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    The reason I think those clothes, on the second bed, might be for JBR to put on the next day, Karen, is because they aren't thrown around the room like the rest of the stuff. It kinda makes sense if JBR only wore those socks and clothes for a few hours to the Whites. The socks, if they are socks, are laid out side by side very neatly. Makes me wonder why this neat person wouldn't have pulled the pink pajama top off the bed and tidied it up just a bit, also.

    Thomas states, in his book, that the coroner noticed "small bits of lint and dust on her feet". I, also, thought maybe it was lint from the socks but lint and dust kind of told me it was from standing on a dirty floor some where.
    Aren't the pants though? Why aren't they all on the bed ready to put on the next morning?

  6. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    LOL! Wicked? I do believe my DH would actually agree with you....at times.

    Without actually looking it up I will say DOI and be pretty positive about it. (You should see my bookshelf and office. It's a wonder i can find anything at all I'm embarrased to admit.)

    Isn't it a shame we posters have this case ingrained into our soul and Patsy "Doesn't remember, or "Doesn't know" or "Can't recall" because details might actually HELP the investigation??
    Thanks. No wonder I didn't remember: I had several strokes while reading DOI. Took me months to recover....

    Anyone who believes the Ramseys "cooperated" with LE drank the KoolAid with both hands.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
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    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  7. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    I wonder why a few here think Jonbenet was going to wear the same outfit the following day when she woke up? Is it because Patsy said she was wearing her same outfit the next day? But do we believe that Patsy was actually going to do that or is the consensus that she just never changed out of her clothes that night because she didn't have time or whatever and so she had to explain to the police why she was already dressed and that is what she told police? Is that the reason some think JB was going to wear the same outfit the next day? Because think about it, that would be based on a lie if it were..... because Patsy said she was going to wear the same clothes. Also I don't see how JB's clothes were so very neatly laid out to be worn again. The vest is tossed on the bed haphazardly and the pants are sort of tossed laying on the trunk. I don't see how that translates into the clothes being laid out neatly to be worn the next day. They would have been wrinkled. The only two things laid out neatly are the scarf and the "socks"? To me If something were going to be worn again it would be laid out neatly alogside the scarf and "socks". (That scarf looks like it could be the original strangulation device, it's laid out TOO neatly.....just sayun'.)

    Jonbenet had LOTS of clothes as did Patsy. They didn't have to double up and Lord knows they were't worried about laundry because that was LHP's job. Didn't Patsy say in an interview the kids would get on the plane in their pj's because they would always leave so early in the morning?

    In going back and looking at that picture KoldKase posted I wonder if those are socks. They seem awful large for someone JB's age. It looks like a large white fabric. I would never have considered those as being socks if I hadn't see it written here by a poster. I wish those photos were clearer! It would answer a lot of speculation.
    Responding to all our speculation on what the protocol of "clothing" was for the next day: we can't believe what the Ramseys told us; we know staging happened all over this crime.

    Upshot: one more set of crazy pieces to add/delete/ponder in this puzzle of a million pieces.

    But I do believe those are socks on the bed. I played around a bit with the photo, but didn't post it as I don't know if this helps. Can't hurt, though.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  8. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Responding to all our speculation on what the protocol of "clothing" was for the next day: we can't believe what the Ramseys told us; we know staging happened all over this crime.

    Upshot: one more set of crazy pieces to add/delete/ponder in this puzzle of a million pieces.

    But I do believe those are socks on the bed. I played around a bit with the photo, but didn't post it as I don't know if this helps. Can't hurt, though.
    They sure seem to have the shape of socks.

  9. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    TOTALLY agree. Very helpful button.


    Okay this makes
    3 votes for the "thanks" button. Waddas a person gotta do around here to getta thanks button?!!

  10. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    They sure seem to have the shape of socks.
    Of course you could be right and they could be socks. But I wonder why both they and the scarf are laid out so neatly when the vest and pants are not? Because they were obviously thrown on the second bed and trunk, respectively.
    I don't think JB was going to wear the pants and vest the next day. I think that idea came about here because Patsy said she was going to wear her same clothes the next day but IMO was just something she had to make up on the spur of the moment to explain why she was wearing the same clothes as the night before. I think Jonbenet and Burke were going to wear their pajamas on the plane and change when they woke up and got to Minneapolis. Patsy said they (the kids) would do that when they had an early flight.
    It would sure be interesting to see what clothes or socks Burke had laid out on his other bed.

  11. #83

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    Okay two more observations then I'll shutup for awhile.

    The green garland in her hair. I don't think that was from being carried down the spiral staircase. I think it was picked up from the wine cellar floor since that is where all the Christmas trees were stored. There would be many more fake green needles there and she would have longer access to them if she were laying on the floor where they were kept year round. (That doesn't sound right but I don't know how else to say it.)

    The lint and dust on her feet.
    I can see the lint being sock lint, but what other kind of lint is there? I mean what do you actually call "lint?" It doesn't make any sense that it was dryer lint.
    Dusty feet. If she had walked there her feet would not be dusty I don't think. Dusty comes from something sitting or laying around untouched. OR if there was dust on the heel area she could have been drug and her heels would collect dust/dirt.

  12. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Okay two more observations then I'll shutup for awhile.

    The green garland in her hair. I don't think that was from being carried down the spiral staircase. I think it was picked up from the wine cellar floor since that is where all the Christmas trees were stored. There would be many more fake green needles there and she would have longer access to them if she were laying on the floor where they were kept year round. (That doesn't sound right but I don't know how else to say it.)

    The lint and dust on her feet.
    I can see the lint being sock lint, but what other kind of lint is there? I mean what do you actually call "lint?" It doesn't make any sense that it was dryer lint.
    Dusty feet. If she had walked there her feet would not be dusty I don't think. Dusty comes from something sitting or laying around untouched. OR if there was dust on the heel area she could have been drug and her heels would collect dust/dirt.
    Certainly sock lint, but when she took her socks off, there would be lint, fibers, dust, etc. from walking on any surface in the house- carpet, floors, etc. as well as anything tracked into the house on shoes. I maintain JB walked around the house that night after getting ready for bed. The lonhjohns stopped at the ankle, and she may not have been in the habit of wearing socks to bed. (some kids DO- if they have outgrown "footie" pajamas. No mention was made of there being socks on JB's body when she was brought up, and socks were not among the clothing and jewelry listed by the coroner. The only kind of lint or dust that would really be suspicious is if it matched what was found on the WC floor. I have never seen if JB's soles were even tested against that material. So the lint on the soles of her feet may have been from whatever socks she wore that day.
    It would also be suspicious if basement carper fibers were JUST on her bare heels, indicating, as you say, that she had been dragged along the basement floor. One problem I have with the dragging theory is that, while there might not be any marks on the carpet (which was a very low pile) there should have been drag marks in the moldy floor of the WC. However, JB was a child of under 50 lbs. That really isn't too heavy to be picked up; there was no need to drag her.
    I'd have looked closer at her feet/heels at the autopsy.

    I agree about the fake needles. In addition, there was a decoration made of these needles hanging right outside the WC door, on the wall right next to the door. The basement had plenty of those needles; all the artificial trees and decorations had been kept there and brought up just weeks before.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.



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