Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 12 of 60
  1. #1

    Default Could Patsy have been tried for negligent homicide?

    I was reading about Molly Midyette's appeal for a new trial--don't get me started--and found some interesting info in the Westword article which relates to the Ramsey case. A couple of these are just "Hmmmm..." interesting, but one legal issue is brought up that made me wonder if Patsy was in jeopardy of being charged at least for negligent homicide, JUST LIKE THE MIDYETTES WERE.

    The full article will make you want to kick something, but it is interesting to see how selfish, rich, spoiled, brutal parents react to being imprisoned for having killed their child. Not to mention, we get an idea of how their hugely narcissistic parents raised them to be such monsters.

    But here are the parts about the Ramsey case worth noting:

    Jason's death captured headlines in Colorado and beyond — not just because of the horrific nature of his passing, but because of his parents: Alex and Molly Midyette, the son and daughter-in-law of J. Nold Midyette, a wealthy architect and Boulder real-estate mogul. And as more than a year passed without any charges being filed, without any new details emerging, people began to wonder if in Boulder, a city still haunted by the ghost of JonBenét Ramsey, justice could be bought and sold.
    I know what I think the answer to that question is. But continuing on, it gets better...or worse.

    In the following quote, remember that "J." is J. Nold Midyette, the rich architect and owner of Pearl St. Mall, where Access Graphics leased space; J. Nold knew John Ramsey and is Alex's father. J. Nold is rumored to have used his son Alex as a bodyguard for John Ramsey when J. loaned Ramsey another Pearl St. Mall office to avoid the paparazzi, which I read about during the Midyette trials--I can't remember the source for that, so take it as gossip.

    The Midyette family closed in tight around her and Alex, and drew in Molly's parents, too. No one talked to the media, no one talked to the police. At one point, according to a motion later filed on Molly's behalf, J. told Molly's parents "that if there was any way to buy off [Boulder District Attorney] Mary Lacy, he would do it."
    Now where oh where would Mr. J. Nold Midyette get that idea?

    And finally, the legal issue that popped up in this article that makes me wonder--again--how the Ramseys skated away so easily in this case: Molly was found "...guilty of child abuse resulting in death — a charge that carried the same potential sentence as second-degree murder."

    Prosecutors, meanwhile, called medical experts who testified that Jason's injuries appeared in various stages of healing, suggesting an eleven-week lifespan scarred by repeated trauma. And Jason's pediatrician testified that, based on Jason's condition when he was brought to her office on February 24, she was surprised at how long the parents had waited to get help.

    The prosecutors didn't suggest that Molly was necessarily responsible for the injuries — but they didn't need to.

    "The current version of the child-abuse statutes, I believe, was enacted in the early 1990s," says Stan Garnett, Mary Lacy's replacement as Boulder district attorney. "When I was prosecuting in the early '80s, it was much more difficult to prosecute child abuse. It used to be drafted more like an assault statute, where you have to prove exactly what happened. The change was to make it clear that the legislature puts the responsibility on people who care for children, not only not to harm them, but also to make sure they get help if there is an issue."
    http://www.westword.com/2011-04-07/n...te-speaks-out/

    We've always thought that the Ramsey's best defense was the difficulty of proving who struck the head blow, strangled the child, etc. But I'm wondering if it could have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt [duh] that Patsy helped in the cover up by writing the ransom note, using the prior molestation as proof the child was being abused before that night, as well, and therefore Patsy was negligent in not getting help for JonBenet that night: 16 years minimum like Molly?

    Of course, this would have required a DA who actually knew and practiced the law to seek justice in a child murder case, something Boulder clearly lacked in Hunter and Lacy.

    I mean...how many critical Ramsey records did Hunter bury in this case? The phone records, the medical records...? And why didn't any lawyer working for the DA, including Lacy when she became DA herself, at least try to follow investigative procedure and get these?

    Again, I can't believe that Boulder County allowed this gross injustice in the murder and sexual assault of a child, but they almost did it again with the Midyettes, under none other than...MARY LACY. How interesting that in the Midyette murder, Lacy once again was following the rich, influential family [Ramsey] playbook...until Bill O'Reilly sent a news crew to ambush Lacy in her own driveway about why a brutalized dead baby was getting no justice while his parents/suspects were living the high life all around town, avoiding LE and planning their escape from justice.

    Any thoughts?

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Southern Silicon Valley !!
    Posts
    2,285

    Default Koldkase,

    I read with facination when you post. This is a good theory and the strongest word in your question is 'IF'. "If it could have been proven......." and so forth. I love the premise of your thought. Of course all the records would have to have been produced like phone and medical records. I also believe that a second autopsy could have been done to help settle most of the questions. I'm having a senior moment here (can't think of the name) but the disinturrment of her body could have been helpful too. It would have have let us see just what the Ramseys put in the coffin with her.

    And your thoughts that the ransom note would have to be proven without question that it was Patsy's writing to prove a coverup.

    All in all I can only see the stumbling blocks that all of those high priced atty's would put in anyones path if they tried to prove once and for all that the R's are guilty. To say nothing of the flawed LE work from the get go. That has spoiled this case from the moment she called 911 and the first officer arrived at the house.

    But I like how you think and applaud your work on posting here.
    "When are we going to get our heads out of the sand and understand that sometimes really nice people who look good on the outside are dastardly on the inside." Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, MA

  3. #3

    Default

    Thanks, Zoomama, for your kindness, thoughts, and observations.

    Personally, I think the case had a very good chance of being made, at least in light of the law Garnett referenced in the article from which I posted.

    I think it comes down to how many coincidences can you believe before you reach beyond a reasonable doubt?

    What a coincidence the ransom note writer had 24 points of similarity in writing with Patsy.

    What a coincidence that the ransom note writer used references specific to the Ramsey's inner circle.

    What a coincidence that the ransom note writer used language similar in linguistics to Patsy Ramsey.

    What a coincidence that the ransom note writer wrote on Patsy's pad, with her pen, in her home.

    What a coincidence that Patsy's clothing fibers were tied into the knots of the garrote.

    What a coincidence that it was Patsy's paintbrush used to penetrate the child and fashion a handle on the strangulation cord.

    What a coincidence that there is no evidence whatsoever from the crime linked to anyone else.

    What a coincidence that the "kidnapper" spent time writing several drafts of the long, rambling ransom note, but forgot to take the body and forgot to call for the ransom.

    What a coincidence that the Ramseys not only called 911 in spite of the warnings in the ransom note, but also called over four friends, all driving cars there, without any concern for the safety of JonBenet.

    What a coincidence that six year old JonBenet had prior vaginal injuries, including a severely torn hymen and worn rim, and she was sexually assaulted with a paintbrush the night she was murdered.

    What a coincidence that the Ramseys hired lawyers within a few hrs. of finding the body of their child in their home, refusing to go the the BPD to aid in the investigation...TO THIS DAY.

    What a coincidence that the Ramseys appeared on TV within a week of the murder, the day after they buried their child, but they were too grief-stricken/angry/lawyered up to appear at the BPD to help find the killer of their child.

    What a coincidence that Patsy Ramsey lies to LE repeatedly about the Bloomies found on her daughter's body, and none of them could be bothered to ever search their boxes from the home for items long sought by LE: the Santa Bear toy; the Bloomies package; the duct tape roll; the cord source. In fact, they finally used a HIRED PI to look through their belongings to find the Santa Bear/their clothes to turn into LE, which leads me to the next amazing coincidence.

    What a coincidence that the Ramseys held onto the alleged original package of size 12-14 Bloomies for five years after the murder, Patsy admitting to Boulder LE in 2000 she knew how important this was, and if not sure, they told her then; yet not until 2002, when Ramsey friendly Lacy joined with Ramsey civil lawyer Wood to take the investigation away from the BPD and hand it to Ramsey-sympathetic investigators, hand-chosen by DA Lacy, was Wood finally conscientious enough to turn the alleged package of size 12-14 Bloomies over to the DA. (Thank heavens someone working for the Ramseys had enough ethics not to destroy that evidence, though sadly not enough to refuse to withhold it for years in a child murder investigation--which Lacy should have indicted someone right there, but oh well, we know how that always went....)

    Do I need to go on? Because, as we well know, I can. At some point, anyone with the IQ of a turnip can see the Ramseys were involved, even if who did what to the child is not clear.

    My point is that any decent DA should have rolled the dice on this. There was a good chance at getting a conviction of negligence, as I'm reading what Garnett said about that charge. At least there was a chance before Lacy put the final nail in the case coffin.

    Now with Patsy dead, I'd say there's no chance unless John can be linked to the events that night beyond a reasonable doubt. I can't say I've seen the evidence to prove that.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Southern Silicon Valley !!
    Posts
    2,285

    Thumbs up

    wow
    "When are we going to get our heads out of the sand and understand that sometimes really nice people who look good on the outside are dastardly on the inside." Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, MA

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In the Federal Witness Protection Program
    Posts
    1,311

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zoomama View Post
    wow
    double wow!!
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  6. #6

    Default

    Well, it's just a question I had. Having slept on it, and to be fair, I am talking out of my hat.

    I based my thoughts on a paragraph in an article about another case. I'm not a lawyer and I certainly don't know the ins and outs of Colorado law. Maybe it wasn't possible to make the case for that charge. I don't know.

    But I was just putting it out there because Molly basically got convicted in circumstances similar to those in the murder of JonBenet. So it got me to thinking....

    I still cannot believe that Alex Hunter and Mary Lacy had no clue that at least Patsy Ramsey was in this up to her neck. If Mary Lacy had all the case file at her fingertips and truly intelligent detectives working this case for her, there is no way she didn't see the damaging evidence against the Ramseys.

    Which is what makes me wonder what inspired her to "exonerate" them based on DNA which easily can be contaminant or artifact. Either Lacy is completely incompetent, stupid, or corrupt...and probably all three, IMO. She certainly embarrassed Boulder LE for all time with her arrest of PERV Karr. Since Hunter also displayed the same sense of unethical behavior in this case--and others, it appears from what we learned of his history as a DA--that's two jokers running the DA's Office in Boulder for over 30 years.

    With the evidence we've seen for 14+ years, it's just hard to square that there was no way to bring this case to trial on some charge against Patsy. If I had any confidence in either of the DAs who had it for so long, I wouldn't say that, but I have trouble having confidence in ANY DA because of them. Now Garnett has no chance at making any case in this murder, nor will any other DA, thanks to Hunter and Lacy. But Garnett's statement about the law used in the case of Jason Midyette's death got me to thinking, as those charges were actually made against Molly UNDER LACY'S FINAL YEAR IN OFFICE. It took Lacy a year, and only after media pressure did she move for indictments, IMO, but the charge was "child abuse resulting in death" and Molly got 16 years after a jury convicted her--that was the MINIMUM sentence for that charge.

    Here's what I'm wondering: if there were experts who would testify that the head blow came first, and that there was a period of time between the head blow and the strangulation, that would have been significant in proving "child abuse resulting in death."

    Since we know that Detective Haney asked Patsy about blood on JB's pillowcase, and we know that he then asked Patsy if JB had nose bleeds, it's not unreasonable for us to assume, for argument's sake, that it was found to be JB's blood on that pillowcase. If you're following my thoughts, here's my point: it can be argued Burke was too small to carry JB down two flights of steps if she was bludgeoned in her bedroom or nearby. That's easy enough to demonstrate to a jury. So that leaves Patsy and John to carry her to the basement. Patsy's fibers tied into the garrote knots; Patsy's pad; Patsy's pen: Patsy could not be eliminated as the writer of the note.

    I cannot believe that a decent prosecutor couldn't have at least made the case for "abuse resulting in death" against Patsy. What I most can't believe is not one tried.

    A little six year old girl was sexually assaulted and brutally murdered in the bosom of her own family and home. How can not one DA have the courage and ethics to do his/her job in this case just because her parents were rich?

    I'm never going to get over this terrible injustice, not only of extreme child abuse, but of our legal system which blithely allowed justice to be denied.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    8,381

    Default

    Your post should be on a BILLBOARD in Boulder, Colorado, KK!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    In a World With Too Much Crime
    Posts
    7,831

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Your post should be on a BILLBOARD in Boulder, Colorado, KK!
    Boy did you ever say a mouthful there!
    It's probably too late to get justice for JonBenét. Maybe it always was. But knowing where things went wrong is the first step to not going there again. **-- Alan Prendergast-Dec 21, 2006--**

    ______________________
    Bring all our Missing Home www.usearchut.org
    Prayers for our military who are protecting our freedom.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In the Federal Witness Protection Program
    Posts
    1,311

    Default

    I'd like to see it on a billboard in front of AH's and ML's homes!
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    I'd like to see it on a billboard in front of AH's and ML's homes!
    Oh, now there's a brilliant idea!

    And thanks, mateys. Venting is about all we have left in this case, sadly, so every now and then I get wound up again and let 'er rip!

    By the way, have y'all seen the TV show coming up in the near future, hosted by Beth Holloway, about missing persons cases? I just caught a snip of it tonight; looks like it will be interesting.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    8,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moab View Post
    Boy did you ever say a mouthful there!
    I have already seen it in my imagination Moab!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Thanks, Zoomama, for your kindness, thoughts, and observations.

    Personally, I think the case had a very good chance of being made, at least in light of the law Garnett referenced in the article from which I posted.

    I think it comes down to how many coincidences can you believe before you reach beyond a reasonable doubt?

    What a coincidence the ransom note writer had 24 points of similarity in writing with Patsy.

    What a coincidence that the ransom note writer used references specific to the Ramsey's inner circle.

    What a coincidence that the ransom note writer used language similar in linguistics to Patsy Ramsey.

    What a coincidence that the ransom note writer wrote on Patsy's pad, with her pen, in her home.

    What a coincidence that Patsy's clothing fibers were tied into the knots of the garrote.

    What a coincidence that it was Patsy's paintbrush used to penetrate the child and fashion a handle on the strangulation cord.

    What a coincidence that there is no evidence whatsoever from the crime linked to anyone else.

    What a coincidence that the "kidnapper" spent time writing several drafts of the long, rambling ransom note, but forgot to take the body and forgot to call for the ransom.

    What a coincidence that the Ramseys not only called 911 in spite of the warnings in the ransom note, but also called over four friends, all driving cars there, without any concern for the safety of JonBenet.

    What a coincidence that six year old JonBenet had prior vaginal injuries, including a severely torn hymen and worn rim, and she was sexually assaulted with a paintbrush the night she was murdered.

    What a coincidence that the Ramseys hired lawyers within a few hrs. of finding the body of their child in their home, refusing to go the the BPD to aid in the investigation...TO THIS DAY.

    What a coincidence that the Ramseys appeared on TV within a week of the murder, the day after they buried their child, but they were too grief-stricken/angry/lawyered up to appear at the BPD to help find the killer of their child.

    What a coincidence that Patsy Ramsey lies to LE repeatedly about the Bloomies found on her daughter's body, and none of them could be bothered to ever search their boxes from the home for items long sought by LE: the Santa Bear toy; the Bloomies package; the duct tape roll; the cord source. In fact, they finally used a HIRED PI to look through their belongings to find the Santa Bear/their clothes to turn into LE, which leads me to the next amazing coincidence.

    What a coincidence that the Ramseys held onto the alleged original package of size 12-14 Bloomies for five years after the murder, Patsy admitting to Boulder LE in 2000 she knew how important this was, and if not sure, they told her then; yet not until 2002, when Ramsey friendly Lacy joined with Ramsey civil lawyer Wood to take the investigation away from the BPD and hand it to Ramsey-sympathetic investigators, hand-chosen by DA Lacy, was Wood finally conscientious enough to turn the alleged package of size 12-14 Bloomies over to the DA. (Thank heavens someone working for the Ramseys had enough ethics not to destroy that evidence, though sadly not enough to refuse to withhold it for years in a child murder investigation--which Lacy should have indicted someone right there, but oh well, we know how that always went....)

    Do I need to go on? Because, as we well know, I can. At some point, anyone with the IQ of a turnip can see the Ramseys were involved, even if who did what to the child is not clear.

    My point is that any decent DA should have rolled the dice on this. There was a good chance at getting a conviction of negligence, as I'm reading what Garnett said about that charge. At least there was a chance before Lacy put the final nail in the case coffin.

    Now with Patsy dead, I'd say there's no chance unless John can be linked to the events that night beyond a reasonable doubt. I can't say I've seen the evidence to prove that.
    Your long list of coincidences is precisely why ST could look Patsy straight in the eye, on LKL, and say: "You know, Patsy, you could have been charged."



Similar Threads

  1. Butts Triple Homicide
    By JC in forum Butts - Triple Murder Case
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: August 12, 2007, 8:38 am, Sun Aug 12 8:38:18 UTC 2007
  2. Butts triple homicide, thread III
    By JC in forum Butts - Triple Murder Case
    Replies: 213
    Last Post: November 13, 2005, 8:22 am, Sun Nov 13 8:22:23 UTC 2005
  3. 1992 Butts Triple Homicide
    By JC in forum Butts - Triple Murder Case
    Replies: 149
    Last Post: June 1, 2005, 10:57 am, Wed Jun 1 10:57:39 UTC 2005
  4. Case will be ruled a double homicide....
    By Tez in forum Laci Denise Rocha Peterson
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: March 25, 2003, 1:34 pm, Tue Mar 25 13:34:56 UTC 2003

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •