Could Patsy have been tried for negligent homicide?

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by koldkase, Apr 22, 2011.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I was reading about Molly Midyette's appeal for a new trial--don't get me started--and found some interesting info in the Westword article which relates to the Ramsey case. A couple of these are just "Hmmmm..." interesting, but one legal issue is brought up that made me wonder if Patsy was in jeopardy of being charged at least for negligent homicide, JUST LIKE THE MIDYETTES WERE.

    The full article will make you want to kick something, but it is interesting to see how selfish, rich, spoiled, brutal parents react to being imprisoned for having killed their child. Not to mention, we get an idea of how their hugely narcissistic parents raised them to be such monsters.

    But here are the parts about the Ramsey case worth noting:

    I know what I think the answer to that question is. But continuing on, it gets better...or worse.

    In the following quote, remember that "J." is J. Nold Midyette, the rich architect and owner of Pearl St. Mall, where Access Graphics leased space; J. Nold knew John Ramsey and is Alex's father. J. Nold is rumored to have used his son Alex as a bodyguard for John Ramsey when J. loaned Ramsey another Pearl St. Mall office to avoid the paparazzi, which I read about during the Midyette trials--I can't remember the source for that, so take it as gossip.

    Now where oh where would Mr. J. Nold Midyette get that idea? :deal:

    And finally, the legal issue that popped up in this article that makes me wonder--again--how the Ramseys skated away so easily in this case: Molly was found "...guilty of child abuse resulting in death — a charge that carried the same potential sentence as second-degree murder."

    http://www.westword.com/2011-04-07/news/molly-midyette-speaks-out/

    We've always thought that the Ramsey's best defense was the difficulty of proving who struck the head blow, strangled the child, etc. But I'm wondering if it could have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt [duh] that Patsy helped in the cover up by writing the ransom note, using the prior molestation as proof the child was being abused before that night, as well, and therefore Patsy was negligent in not getting help for JonBenet that night: 16 years minimum like Molly?

    Of course, this would have required a DA who actually knew and practiced the law to seek justice in a child murder case, something Boulder clearly lacked in Hunter and Lacy.

    I mean...how many critical Ramsey records did Hunter bury in this case? The phone records, the medical records...? And why didn't any lawyer working for the DA, including Lacy when she became DA herself, at least try to follow investigative procedure and get these?

    Again, I can't believe that Boulder County allowed this gross injustice in the murder and sexual assault of a child, but they almost did it again with the Midyettes, under none other than...MARY LACY. How interesting that in the Midyette murder, Lacy once again was following the rich, influential family [Ramsey] playbook...until Bill O'Reilly sent a news crew to ambush Lacy in her own driveway about why a brutalized dead baby was getting no justice while his parents/suspects were living the high life all around town, avoiding LE and planning their escape from justice.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    Koldkase,

    I read with facination when you post. This is a good theory and the strongest word in your question is 'IF'. "If it could have been proven......." and so forth. I love the premise of your thought. Of course all the records would have to have been produced like phone and medical records. I also believe that a second autopsy could have been done to help settle most of the questions. I'm having a senior moment here (can't think of the name) but the disinturrment of her body could have been helpful too. It would have have let us see just what the Ramseys put in the coffin with her.

    And your thoughts that the ransom note would have to be proven without question that it was Patsy's writing to prove a coverup.

    All in all I can only see the stumbling blocks that all of those high priced atty's would put in anyones path if they tried to prove once and for all that the R's are guilty. To say nothing of the flawed LE work from the get go. That has spoiled this case from the moment she called 911 and the first officer arrived at the house.

    But I like how you think and applaud your work on posting here. :highfive:
     
  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks, Zoomama, for your kindness, thoughts, and observations.

    Personally, I think the case had a very good chance of being made, at least in light of the law Garnett referenced in the article from which I posted.

    I think it comes down to how many coincidences can you believe before you reach beyond a reasonable doubt?

    What a coincidence the ransom note writer had 24 points of similarity in writing with Patsy.

    What a coincidence that the ransom note writer used references specific to the Ramsey's inner circle.

    What a coincidence that the ransom note writer used language similar in linguistics to Patsy Ramsey.

    What a coincidence that the ransom note writer wrote on Patsy's pad, with her pen, in her home.

    What a coincidence that Patsy's clothing fibers were tied into the knots of the garrote.

    What a coincidence that it was Patsy's paintbrush used to penetrate the child and fashion a handle on the strangulation cord.

    What a coincidence that there is no evidence whatsoever from the crime linked to anyone else.

    What a coincidence that the "kidnapper" spent time writing several drafts of the long, rambling ransom note, but forgot to take the body and forgot to call for the ransom.

    What a coincidence that the Ramseys not only called 911 in spite of the warnings in the ransom note, but also called over four friends, all driving cars there, without any concern for the safety of JonBenet.

    What a coincidence that six year old JonBenet had prior vaginal injuries, including a severely torn hymen and worn rim, and she was sexually assaulted with a paintbrush the night she was murdered.

    What a coincidence that the Ramseys hired lawyers within a few hrs. of finding the body of their child in their home, refusing to go the the BPD to aid in the investigation...TO THIS DAY.

    What a coincidence that the Ramseys appeared on TV within a week of the murder, the day after they buried their child, but they were too grief-stricken/angry/lawyered up to appear at the BPD to help find the killer of their child.

    What a coincidence that Patsy Ramsey lies to LE repeatedly about the Bloomies found on her daughter's body, and none of them could be bothered to ever search their boxes from the home for items long sought by LE: the Santa Bear toy; the Bloomies package; the duct tape roll; the cord source. In fact, they finally used a HIRED PI to look through their belongings to find the Santa Bear/their clothes to turn into LE, which leads me to the next amazing coincidence.

    What a coincidence that the Ramseys held onto the alleged original package of size 12-14 Bloomies for five years after the murder, Patsy admitting to Boulder LE in 2000 she knew how important this was, and if not sure, they told her then; yet not until 2002, when Ramsey friendly Lacy joined with Ramsey civil lawyer Wood to take the investigation away from the BPD and hand it to Ramsey-sympathetic investigators, hand-chosen by DA Lacy, was Wood finally conscientious enough to turn the alleged package of size 12-14 Bloomies over to the DA. (Thank heavens someone working for the Ramseys had enough ethics not to destroy that evidence, though sadly not enough to refuse to withhold it for years in a child murder investigation--which Lacy should have indicted someone right there, but oh well, we know how that always went....)

    Do I need to go on? Because, as we well know, I can. At some point, anyone with the IQ of a turnip can see the Ramseys were involved, even if who did what to the child is not clear.

    My point is that any decent DA should have rolled the dice on this. There was a good chance at getting a conviction of negligence, as I'm reading what Garnett said about that charge. At least there was a chance before Lacy put the final nail in the case coffin.

    Now with Patsy dead, I'd say there's no chance unless John can be linked to the events that night beyond a reasonable doubt. I can't say I've seen the evidence to prove that.
     
  4. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

  5. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    double wow!!
     
  6. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Well, it's just a question I had. Having slept on it, and to be fair, I am talking out of my hat.

    I based my thoughts on a paragraph in an article about another case. I'm not a lawyer and I certainly don't know the ins and outs of Colorado law. Maybe it wasn't possible to make the case for that charge. I don't know.

    But I was just putting it out there because Molly basically got convicted in circumstances similar to those in the murder of JonBenet. So it got me to thinking....

    I still cannot believe that Alex Hunter and Mary Lacy had no clue that at least Patsy Ramsey was in this up to her neck. If Mary Lacy had all the case file at her fingertips and truly intelligent detectives working this case for her, there is no way she didn't see the damaging evidence against the Ramseys.

    Which is what makes me wonder what inspired her to "exonerate" them based on DNA which easily can be contaminant or artifact. Either Lacy is completely incompetent, stupid, or corrupt...and probably all three, IMO. She certainly embarrassed Boulder LE for all time with her arrest of PERV Karr. Since Hunter also displayed the same sense of unethical behavior in this case--and others, it appears from what we learned of his history as a DA--that's two jokers running the DA's Office in Boulder for over 30 years.

    With the evidence we've seen for 14+ years, it's just hard to square that there was no way to bring this case to trial on some charge against Patsy. If I had any confidence in either of the DAs who had it for so long, I wouldn't say that, but I have trouble having confidence in ANY DA because of them. Now Garnett has no chance at making any case in this murder, nor will any other DA, thanks to Hunter and Lacy. But Garnett's statement about the law used in the case of Jason Midyette's death got me to thinking, as those charges were actually made against Molly UNDER LACY'S FINAL YEAR IN OFFICE. It took Lacy a year, and only after media pressure did she move for indictments, IMO, but the charge was "child abuse resulting in death" and Molly got 16 years after a jury convicted her--that was the MINIMUM sentence for that charge.

    Here's what I'm wondering: if there were experts who would testify that the head blow came first, and that there was a period of time between the head blow and the strangulation, that would have been significant in proving "child abuse resulting in death."

    Since we know that Detective Haney asked Patsy about blood on JB's pillowcase, and we know that he then asked Patsy if JB had nose bleeds, it's not unreasonable for us to assume, for argument's sake, that it was found to be JB's blood on that pillowcase. If you're following my thoughts, here's my point: it can be argued Burke was too small to carry JB down two flights of steps if she was bludgeoned in her bedroom or nearby. That's easy enough to demonstrate to a jury. So that leaves Patsy and John to carry her to the basement. Patsy's fibers tied into the garrote knots; Patsy's pad; Patsy's pen: Patsy could not be eliminated as the writer of the note.

    I cannot believe that a decent prosecutor couldn't have at least made the case for "abuse resulting in death" against Patsy. What I most can't believe is not one tried.

    A little six year old girl was sexually assaulted and brutally murdered in the bosom of her own family and home. How can not one DA have the courage and ethics to do his/her job in this case just because her parents were rich?

    I'm never going to get over this terrible injustice, not only of extreme child abuse, but of our legal system which blithely allowed justice to be denied.
     
  7. Elle

    Elle Member

    Your post should be on a BILLBOARD in Boulder, Colorado, KK!
     
  8. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Boy did you ever say a mouthful there!
    :yay::yay::yay::yay::yay:
     
  9. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    I'd like to see it on a billboard in front of AH's and ML's homes!
     
  10. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Oh, now there's a brilliant idea!

    And thanks, mateys. Venting is about all we have left in this case, sadly, so every now and then I get wound up again and let 'er rip!

    By the way, have y'all seen the TV show coming up in the near future, hosted by Beth Holloway, about missing persons cases? I just caught a snip of it tonight; looks like it will be interesting.
     
  11. Elle

    Elle Member

    I have already seen it in my imagination Moab! :)
     
  12. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Your long list of coincidences is precisely why ST could look Patsy straight in the eye, on LKL, and say: "You know, Patsy, you could have been charged."
     
  13. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Absolutely. And boy, did John Ramsey get red in the face and about bust a blood vessel over that. Never in 14+ years has John Ramsey ever gotten angry at the intruder on TV like that--the "man" who, they say, brutally attacked, bludgeoned, sexually assaulted, and strangled their baby to death. Not even close. Sued Thomas, too.

    Ha! That's who the Ramseys really are, when the mask slips.
     
  14. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Absolutely right! The carefully constructed facade falls away quickly with the Ramseys are confronted with the truth. Unfortunately, they have controlled all interviews and their lawyers have controlled all questioning, so they have been able to hide behind that facade. :banghead:
     
  15. cynic

    cynic Member

    BBM

    Do you ever recall this kk?

    Darnay Hoffman:
    Myth #4: Identifying the ransom note writer still doesn't mean the district attorney can get a murder conviction.

    This is not only wrong, it is the closest thing to a "Big Lie" being perpetrated by the district attorney's office. This "Whopper" goes something like this: Even if we know the ransom note writer, how can a jury convict them of a murder without more evidence of their physically participating in the actual killing of JonBenét? Simple. Colorado's felony murder statute makes anyone participating in such dangerous crimes as kidnapping equally responsible for any murder resulting from such activity. Much like the get-away-driver to a bank robbery where a guard is killed (who is later found guilty of murder despite not even being in the bank during the robbery and murder) the JonBenét ransom note writer can be charged with first-degree murder even if the police can't prove the writer actually killed JonBenét. Yet Alex Hunter persists in naively stating that even if the ransom note writer were identified and arrested and jailed, they would be immediately eligible for bail. This is also not true because felony murder is not a bailable offense in Colorado. The ransom note writer would have to sit in jail until they went to trial or made a deal to reveal JonBenét's murderer to the district attorney.

    http://classic-web.archive.org/web/19991007165119/joshua-7.com/mrsbrady/hoffman/5myths.htm
     
  16. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    :star::star::star:
     
  17. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Welcome to our little corner of the world cynic!
     
  18. cynic

    cynic Member

    Thank you, great to be here.
     
  19. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    Hey! Glad to see you here!
     
  20. cynic

    cynic Member

    Thanks DeeDee, you make me feel right at home.
    :newbie:
     
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