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  1. #49
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    I was very impressed with ALL the panelists. Cina Wong sounded like the expert she is, calm and confident. Wecht also sounded sure of his opinions. Dawna seems to have a tremendous amount of info on this case, maybe even things we DON'T know. Tricia, you are a true champion for JB.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  2. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    I was very impressed with ALL the panelists. Cina Wong sounded like the expert she is, calm and confident. Wecht also sounded sure of his opinions. Dawna seems to have a tremendous amount of info on this case, maybe even things we DON'T know. Tricia, you are a true champion for JB.
    I was very impressed too, DeeDee. You're right about Tricia She is a true champion for JonBenét. I hope no harm comes to her.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  3. #51
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    KK,

    Your lovely Southern accent doesn't match your hat "Koldcase" ... but methinks "Southern Bell" or something like that would make everyone think you were a sweet little thing!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  4. #52

    Default Dawna Kaufmann – The Prequel

    I’m sure many of you remember this…

    December 25, 2006
    GLOBE EXCLUSIVE
    Special Report by Dawna Kaufmann
    JONBENET: DID MOM DO IT?
    WHAT THE EXPERTS SAY

    10 years after pageant princess's murder, experts point finger of guilt at PATSY

    It was the day after Christmas 10 years ago when the broken body of little JonBenet Ramsey was found in the basement of her parents' Boulder, Colo., home. Haunting pictures of the 6-year=old beauty parading in a pageant princess outfit, and dancing and singing as a cowgirl, both captivated and chilled America.

    A decade later, authorities are no closer to solving the crime than they were on that frigid morning in 1996, when John and Patsy Ramsey first reported finding a ransom note in the house and their daughter missing.

    In a quest to unveil the truth, GLOBE asked a panel of leading experts to describe what they believe happened in the Ramsey house on the fateful night - and we conducted a survey on Websleuth.com to see what the public thinks.

    Of more than 1,000 people who took part in the Internet survey, nearly 54 percent believe JonBenet was killed by her mom. The remaining votes were almost evenly split between someone Patsy knew and a stranger.

    "It seemed like an easy-to-crack case, but here we are, 10 years later, and there's still no justice for JonBenet," says Tricia Griffith, a radio DJ from Park City, Utah, and Websleuths.com owner. "Most Websleuths members believe Patsy did it in a fit of fury."

    Many of the experts seem to agree, as you can see in our exclusive interviews about America's most sensational and enduring unsolved mystery.


    EXPERT #1 - Dr. Rusty Morris, top forensic psychologist
    Mental disorder fueled deadly rage

    Patsy Ramsey suffered from a bizarre mental illness that helped spark a "rage-fueled episode" leading to JonBenet's savage murder - that's the explosive scenario laid out by top forensic psychologist Dr. Rusty Morris.

    "I always wondered if there might be Munchausen Syndrome-by-Proxy going on in the Ramsey home," Morris tells GLOBE. "That's a disorder where a parent fabricates symptoms in a child, subjecting him or her to unnecessary medical tests or even surgery. A person with this condition craves attention and will do anything to achieve it, even putting a child at risk." Morris cites the 27 trips JonBenet made to her - pediatrician over three years as a pointer. She adds that the young girl's chronic bedwetting problem may have been the trigger that caused Patsy - who died at 49 in June after a long battle with ovarian cancer - to explode in rage.

    "I believe Patsy's stressors may have overtaken her that night," says Morris. "There was a rage-fueled episode where Patsy lost it, and JonBenet ended up dead. After that, there was staging to cover up the crime.

    "This poor little girl had a violent end and her killer got away with it. The case ended with Patsy's death."


    EXPERT #2 - Robert Ressler, former FBI profiler
    Secrets of phony ransom note

    JonBenet's mom fits the profile of the person who wrote the "phony" ransom note found in the Ramsey's home, reveals former FBI expert. Robert K. Ressler, who helped establish criminal profiling for the feds, says that the style, language and information contained in the note point to an approximately 40-year-old white woman from the South as the author - a description that seems to match Patsy.

    "It's absolutely phony." says Ressler about the note. "Usually a ransom note just gives the basics, "I want this, do it or else". But this one was full of colorful language and mixed messages. Then there's the matter of why any kidnapper would demand money when the victim's dead body was left behind. It just didn't make sense."

    Ressler points out that much of the note's language is feminine.

    "There's almost a maternal quality to comments like, 'The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested,'" he tells GLOBE, referring to the way the kidnapper wanted the money handed over. "A hardened criminal would never use those terms."

    Sixties-era expressions like "fat cat," French-influenced vocabulary such as "attache" and the demand for $118,000 - just $150 less than John Ramsey's annual bonus - might also point to a person like Patsy, who grew up in the '60s, studied French and was familiar with her husband's finances.
    Someone else with that knowledge probably would have demanded more.

    Says Ressler, "If a kidnapper knew John's company was worth a billion dollars, he or she would have asked for 10 times that amount."


    EXPERT #3 - Dr. Steven E. Pitt, recognized forensic psychiatrist
    The big "act"

    Patsy Ramsey gave Oscar-quality performances during police interviews about the murder, if you believe nationally recognized forensic psychiatrist, Dr. Steven E. Pitt.

    Pitt, a former consultant for the Boulder police and D.A.'s office, who scrutinized the videotaped interviews, tells GLOBE that one particular exchange between cops and JonBenet's mom "caused me to practically jump out of my seat.

    "It's the part where Patsy denied any knowledge of how pineapple got into the child's digestive tract after the family arrived home from a party. She snarled that she had put the girl right to bed and hadn't served her fruit.

    "But this was a glaring inconsistency because there was a spoon and bowl of fresh pineapple in the breakfast nook, and the bowl had Patsy's fingerprints on it."

    He adds that Patsy gave other misleading testimony and pegs her as being more than a match for her interrogators.

    "Academy Awards have been given out for lesser performances," says Pitt. "She was a very attractive woman, almost seductive. She knew how to work her Southern charm and was definitely a seasoned performer."


    Expert #4 - David S. Liebman, handwriting expert
    More secrets of phony ransom note

    "I'm not saying Patsy killed JonBenet, but I'm convinced there's an extremely high probability she was the person who wrote the ransom note," says handwriting expert David S. Liebman, who completed his work for a private attorney in 1997 and is now sharing his conclusions with GLOBE.

    "The chance of a third party sharing the same characteristics as Patsy and the ransom note writer is astronomical", he says.

    The 67-line ransom note, written with one of Patsy's Sharpie pens on a legal pad, is generally seen by investigators as the single best clue in the case. Liebman says that samples of Patsy's writing he studied had a whopping 51 points of comparison with the ransom note.

    Declares Liebman, "That is a very significant number."


    Expert #5 - Dr. Henry Lee, famed criminalist
    Fiber, prints and DNA

    Patsy Ramsey should have been brought to trial for getting in the way of justice for their daughter, charges famed criminalist Dr. Henry Lee.

    "It seemed to me there was enough evidence to establish the level of proof needed to indict Patsy Ramsey of at least, obstruction of justice," Lee tells GLOBE.

    "But in the state of Colorado, that lesser option was not possible as long as there was the potential for a homicide charge."

    Lee, arguably the world's leading criminalist, reveals in this GLOBE exclusive that there was plenty of physical evidence, including fingerprints, hair, fibers, DNA, duct tape from JonBenet's mouth and the cord used to strangle her.

    But none of the evidence tied a specific person to the crime.

    "Even with all the evidence, I could see we were lacking luck," says Lee, who served as a consultant for the Boulder D.A.'s office.

    "Many of the authorities involved believed that they lacked Patsy's complete cooperation, who seemed lawyered up.

    By the time of the 1998 grand jury hearings, "I gave the case less than a 50 percent chance of being solved," Lee recalls.

    "Thirteen months later, when its deliberations were completed but before the panel had the chance to vote on indicting one or both Ramseys, I told the D.A. that the best course of action would be to not file charges.

    "It broke his heart, but he knew I was right - the case at that point was unwinnable."


    Expert #6 - Dr. Cyril Wecht, forensic pathologist
    Sadistic game gone awry

    JonBenet died during a sadistic game, concludes famed forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril H. Wecht.

    "A very thorough autopsy was performed and reads like a horror thriller:' Wecht tells GLOBE. "All the clues are there to determine the terrible events that caused this child's heart to stop beating."

    Cause of death for the 3-foot-ll, 45-pound girl was ligature strangulation and a severely fractured skull. She also had abrasions on various body parts and suffered vaginal injuries.

    "The crucial element here is that the cord was not intended to kill JonBenet" says Wecht. "It was wrapped rather gently around her neck with no hemorrhages or fractures, which means this was an accidental strangulation.

    "I believe somebody that night was playing a sadistic game with JonBenet, possibly for sexual gratification - and possibly a game that had been played before. The head blow and vaginal injuries were just staging.

    "Typically, when I see sexual choking deaths, the perpetrator is male. But there have been exceptions. Since no semen was found, there's nothing to this murder that would exclude Patsy Ramsey as the killer.

    "With Patsy's death the case is over."


    Expert #7 - Norm Early, former Denver DA Norm Early
    A wall of silence

    Instead of crusading for justice, Patsy Ramsey avoided police questions in the murder of JonBenet, asserts former Denver D.A. Norm Early.

    "She used lawyers, public relations gurus, private eyes and her own fat bankroll to erect a brick wall to shield herself from the kinds of questions you would think she'd want to answer if she really had nothing to do with her daughter's death and wanted to find the killer," says Early.

    "Why didn't Patsy Ramsey camp out in front of the Boulder police department instead of moving with her family to Atlanta?

    "And, when investigators were finally able to talk to her, Patsy was remarkably evasive when confronted with forensic evidence that made her look guilty."


    More at this FFJ thread:
    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...ead.php?t=8098

  5. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    ...but when he spoke about the state of JonBenét's hymen, oh good grief, it's possible this could have happened to this little girl, and it seems to have been going on for a long long time. I'm at a loss for words here.
    I’ve posted this a couple of times over at WS, you might find it interesting if you haven’t seen it before.

    The purpose of this project was to evaluate the transhymenal diameter measurement from a somewhat different perspective, specifically from within a population of children referred for examinations for suspected sexual molestation. The main question, therefore, became, "Is the horizontal transhymenal diameter of prepubertal girls, with definitive evidence of penetration trauma to the genitalia, significantly different from that of alleged victims who show no definitive physical signs of acute or chronic penetration trauma to genital tissues?"

    Upper limit of "normal" transhymenal diameters as included in the Informational Guide to the California Medical Protocol for the Examination of Sexual Assault and Child Sexual Molestation Victims:
    Infancy to 2y: 4mm
    2-5y: 5mm
    6-9y: 9mm
    10y to puberty: 15mm

    The graphs below summarize the results of horizontal transhymenal measurements using the supine labial separation technique among prepubertal girls selected by the presence or absence of definitive physical signs of genital trauma. Girls with no definitive signs of trauma (negative examinations) demonstrated a mean transhymenal diameter of 2.3 mm (average age, 5.0 years). Prepubertal girls whose examinations revealed the presence of definitive physical signs of genital trauma (positive examinations) exhibited a mean horizontal transhymenal measurement of 9.0 mm (average age, 6.2 years). Despite correcting for the difference in average age of the 2 populations, the difference in mean transhymenal diameter was highly significant

    When compared with the results of other investigators' transhymenal measurements for prepubertal girls selected for nonabuse, the girls with negative examinations in this study exhibited similar values. For example, in the age group of 5 to 8 years, this study population of girls with negative examinations exhibited a mean transhymenal diameter of 3.3 mm compared with the mean of 4.2 mm of the study population of McCann et al. This supports the perspective that the population with negative examinations is a valid and reliable representation of "normal" genital anatomy.
    http://archfami.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/8/5/403




  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    I’ve posted this a couple of times over at WS, you might find it interesting if you haven’t seen it before.
    No, cynic, I haven't seen this information before. Thank you for posting this. I will read it and learn more. I am sure many women coming across this post will appreciate the chance to learn more about what actually happens to Sexual Assault and Child Sexual Molestation Victims.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  7. #55
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    JC I am so sorry but Dr. Glass had to cancel and it is a good thing she did. I don't know how we could have fit her in.

    I'll have her on the December Show.

    Everyone was so good. Again, thank you.

    Love,
    Tricia
    tgrif@xmission.com
    FFJ C/O Tricia Griffith
    6300 N Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H #214
    Park City UT
    84098




    I am unaware of anyone who's profited from exploiting the Ramsey murder over a longer period of time, with a greater disregard for the principles of accuracy and fairness, than the production team of Mills and Tracey.They truly do inhabit a different moral universe from real journalists. It's the difference between journalism and propaganda.
    Alan Prendergast,reporter for Westword

  8. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    KK,

    Your lovely Southern accent doesn't match your hat "Koldcase" ... but methinks "Southern Bell" or something like that would make everyone think you were a sweet little thing!
    Yeah, that made some people think Patsy was a sweet little thing, too, but that was certainly far from the truth. Behind closed cellar doors, at least....


    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  9. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    I’ve posted this a couple of times over at WS, you might find it interesting if you haven’t seen it before.

    The purpose of this project was to evaluate the transhymenal diameter measurement from a somewhat different perspective, specifically from within a population of children referred for examinations for suspected sexual molestation. The main question, therefore, became, "Is the horizontal transhymenal diameter of prepubertal girls, with definitive evidence of penetration trauma to the genitalia, significantly different from that of alleged victims who show no definitive physical signs of acute or chronic penetration trauma to genital tissues?"

    Upper limit of "normal" transhymenal diameters as included in the Informational Guide to the California Medical Protocol for the Examination of Sexual Assault and Child Sexual Molestation Victims:
    Infancy to 2y: 4mm
    2-5y: 5mm
    6-9y: 9mm
    10y to puberty: 15mm

    The graphs below summarize the results of horizontal transhymenal measurements using the supine labial separation technique among prepubertal girls selected by the presence or absence of definitive physical signs of genital trauma. Girls with no definitive signs of trauma (negative examinations) demonstrated a mean transhymenal diameter of 2.3 mm (average age, 5.0 years). Prepubertal girls whose examinations revealed the presence of definitive physical signs of genital trauma (positive examinations) exhibited a mean horizontal transhymenal measurement of 9.0 mm (average age, 6.2 years). Despite correcting for the difference in average age of the 2 populations, the difference in mean transhymenal diameter was highly significant

    When compared with the results of other investigators' transhymenal measurements for prepubertal girls selected for nonabuse, the girls with negative examinations in this study exhibited similar values. For example, in the age group of 5 to 8 years, this study population of girls with negative examinations exhibited a mean transhymenal diameter of 3.3 mm compared with the mean of 4.2 mm of the study population of McCann et al. This supports the perspective that the population with negative examinations is a valid and reliable representation of "normal" genital anatomy.

    [snip for brevity]
    It's just stunning to this day for me to think about how the DA buried this case when the very LEAST he could have gone after was sexual abuse of a child. Hunter didn't want to prosecute this case...ever...for any reason.

    This little girl was sexualized, abused physically and sexually, and then murdered viciously.

    Once the autopsy PROVED that she had been sexually abused BEFORE the night of the murder, the Ramseys should have been arrested if they wouldn't come in to be interviewed by the BPD; they should have been forced to refuse to answer questions about that abuse, to get on the record; then the other children should have been brought in and interrogated, as well; friends should have been questioned for witnesses of anything unusual or suggestive of abuse; Dr. Beuf's records for JonBenet should have been immediately subpoenaed; the phone records of the Ramseys should have been immediately subpoenaed; and that's just for starters.

    There are experts and LE who have spoken to the media about being called in by the BPD regarding sexual abuse of JonBenet. One was a police officer who specialized in that. Another was Marilyn Van Derbur, who spoke on Larry King Live of her consultation with the BPD.

    I don't get it. I'll never get it. I don't care that a jury might not have convicted on any charge. I don't care that a conviction might have been overturned. If you're waiting for certainty in this life, you may as well give up Day One.

    Casey Anthony might have walked free, but we know why, don't we? At least the DA tried. At least we saw the evidence in full. At least those who were run over by the Anthony bus had vindication. At least we know what happened to Caylee--her mother killed her with duct tape and cholorform and dumped her body in the woods after concealing it in the trunk for a time. And we know why: so Casey could party, pay her mother back, and live the Bella Vita. Skanky ho beotch won't be fooling no one about it, though, will she?

    But JonBenet never had even that much justice, not even an attempt, and her broken body was able to tell the story of what was done to her. A small army of men and women set out to bury the facts of her abuse and to thwart justice. They may have done the latter, but they'll never be able to keep people who want to know the truth from knowing it: JonBenet Ramsey was sexually abused by someone close to her over time and then murdered because of it.

    One way or another, that's what happened to JonBenet Ramsey. A curse on everyone who tried to cover that up: they will be like the mirror that broke.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  10. #58

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    Oh, and thanks, Cynic. You went and got me started....

    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    I’m sure many of you remember this…

    December 25, 2006
    GLOBE EXCLUSIVE
    Special Report by Dawna Kaufmann
    JONBENET: DID MOM DO IT?
    WHAT THE EXPERTS SAY

    10 years after pageant princess's murder, experts point finger of guilt at PATSY

    It was the day after Christmas 10 years ago when the broken body of little JonBenet Ramsey was found in the basement of her parents' Boulder, Colo., home. Haunting pictures of the 6-year=old beauty parading in a pageant princess outfit, and dancing and singing as a cowgirl, both captivated and chilled America.

    A decade later, authorities are no closer to solving the crime than they were on that frigid morning in 1996, when John and Patsy Ramsey first reported finding a ransom note in the house and their daughter missing.

    In a quest to unveil the truth, GLOBE asked a panel of leading experts to describe what they believe happened in the Ramsey house on the fateful night - and we conducted a survey on Websleuth.com to see what the public thinks.

    [snip]


    More at this FFJ thread:
    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...ead.php?t=8098
    I bumped up this thread after you sent me down memory lane. It's a good one.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  11. #59

    Default

    IMO the case did die with Patsy....no justice for JonBenet. (I think I'm more cynical than Cynic too.)

    Thanks Cynic for the info on sexual abuse evidence.

    The case may be solved some day, IMO it's obvious the Ramseys were involved and not the 'one legged stranger'. I hope the Ramseys lawyers are happy with themselves...disgusting.

    I missed the show, I had guests, and I'm so exhausted from work and the rush on the weekends, I haven't participated much lately.

  12. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    It's just stunning to this day for me to think about how the DA buried this case when the very LEAST he could have gone after was sexual abuse of a child. Hunter didn't want to prosecute this case...ever...for any reason.
    ITA, KoldKase, very well said (as usual.)

    What happened to the threshold toward prosecution that Pete Hofstrom spoke about?
    “If experts could determine prior vaginal abuse, and we could get an expert to identify the author of the ransom note, then the investigation would have reached a “turning point” toward prosecution.”
    Steve Thomas, JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, page 244

    They had both, and yet nothing happened. Regardless of the specific reason(s), spinelessness, or pressure from high places, or whatever the cause, the end result is a complete absence of justice for JonBenet.

    I don't get it. I'll never get it. I don't care that a jury might not have convicted on any charge. I don't care that a conviction might have been overturned. If you're waiting for certainty in this life, you may as well give up Day One.

    Casey Anthony might have walked free, but we know why, don't we? At least the DA tried. At least we saw the evidence in full. At least those who were run over by the Anthony bus had vindication. At least we know what happened to Caylee--her mother killed her with duct tape and cholorform and dumped her body in the woods after concealing it in the trunk for a time. And we know why: so Casey could party, pay her mother back, and live the Bella Vita. Skanky ho beotch won't be fooling no one about it, though, will she?

    But JonBenet never had even that much justice, not even an attempt, and her broken body was able to tell the story of what was done to her. A small army of men and women set out to bury the facts of her abuse and to thwart justice. They may have done the latter, but they'll never be able to keep people who want to know the truth from knowing it: JonBenet Ramsey was sexually abused by someone close to her over time and then murdered because of it.

    One way or another, that's what happened to JonBenet Ramsey. A curse on everyone who tried to cover that up: they will be like the mirror that broke.
    I also very strongly believe that, “It is better to have prosecuted and lost than to never have prosecuted at all.”
    True, double jeopardy can bite you, but just as you can get a completely clueless Anthony/OJ jury, you can also get a Scott Peterson jury.
    Last edited by cynic; August 18, 2011, 9:32 am at Thu Aug 18 9:32:54 UTC 2011.



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