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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Oh, and thanks, Cynic. You went and got me started....
    Maybe that was the plan.
    :runaway:
    Last edited by cynic; August 18, 2011, 11:38 am at Thu Aug 18 11:38:44 UTC 2011.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Show Me View Post
    IMO the case did die with Patsy....no justice for JonBenet.

    The case may be solved some day, IMO it's obvious the Ramseys were involved and not the 'one legged stranger'. I hope the Ramseys lawyers are happy with themselves...disgusting.
    As the author of the ransom note, Patsy would have been the easiest to prosecute by far.
    Her death also means that introducing some of the evidence relating to her would be problematic because of hearsay rules.
    I missed the show, I had guests, and I'm so exhausted from work and the rush on the weekends, I haven't participated much lately.
    The show is long, nearly 3 hours, but you can save it and listen to it in parts.
    http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/sho...ow_2123881.mp3
    Last edited by cynic; August 18, 2011, 6:24 am at Thu Aug 18 6:24:02 UTC 2011.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    Maybe that was the plan.
    :runaway:
    Hey~where you going?! I'm just getting wound up!

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  4. #64
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    This was a catch-22. They HAD proof of prior sexual assault. It was in Meyer's autopsy report. All they had to do was put him on the stand.
    But the problem was the DA didn't WANT him on the stand. On the witness stand Meyer could be asked about many things in his report, and he'd have been asked about his verbal comments, made to LE (Arndt and Trujillo) who were present at the autopsy as well. One of his comments was that he felt the injuries were consistent with digital penetration.

    In order to provide proof of prior assault they needed to go to trial and put Meyer on the stand. But they didn't want to put Meyer on he stand. Though he is supposed to be impartial, a coroner's "findings" can be manipulated or stated in a more ambiguous way. Some coroners are hired, some are appointed. But they can all be replaced if they prove too "troublesome" with certain cases.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    This was a catch-22. They HAD proof of prior sexual assault. It was in Meyer's autopsy report. All they had to do was put him on the stand.
    But the problem was the DA didn't WANT him on the stand. On the witness stand Meyer could be asked about many things in his report, and he'd have been asked about his verbal comments, made to LE (Arndt and Trujillo) who were present at the autopsy as well. One of his comments was that he felt the injuries were consistent with digital penetration.

    In order to provide proof of prior assault they needed to go to trial and put Meyer on the stand. But they didn't want to put Meyer on he stand. Though he is supposed to be impartial, a coroner's "findings" can be manipulated or stated in a more ambiguous way. Some coroners are hired, some are appointed. But they can all be replaced if they prove too "troublesome" with certain cases.
    Of course you're right, DeeDee. I saw Meyer on the stand in the Midyette trial. He was so easily swayed in his findings, depending on which side was questioning him, I was disgusted. I knew immediately he'd have been a milktoast in the hands of any defense lawyer.

    But as you say, the problem in this case wasn't the hired defense lawyers, it was Hunter, who, along with Lacy and DeMuth, was the de facto defense lawyer. He had no will to prosecute the Ramseys for any of the crimes for which they obviously should have been tried. Darnay Hoffman said as much early on in this case, and he was right about that, I'll give him his due.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    I managed to listen to the first hour, KK. I was very impressed with Tricia's introduction. It's difficult for me to carry on normally here after hearing Dr. Wecht's thoughts on this case, and of his explanation of autoeroticism. A very delicate subject, but when he spoke about the state of JonBenét's hymen, oh good grief, it's possible this could have happened to this little girl, and it seems to have been going on for a long long time. I'm at a loss for words here.

    I will have to listen to the rest later, but not today.

    I'm back again! I just wanted to state I do realize what is normally involved with
    autoeroticism, but sexual games are played and young children have been kidnapped and used for these sexual games, but I do have trouble seeing John Ramsey involved in this (?).
    I haven't yet listened to the show; did Wecht say he believes John Ramsey sexually abused JonBenet on that night?

    If yes, did Wecht offer an explanation as to why it was fibers from Patsy's jacket that were found on the duct tape and in the garrote?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon View Post
    I haven't yet listened to the show; did Wecht say he believes John Ramsey sexually abused JonBenet on that night?

    If yes, did Wecht offer an explanation as to why it was fibers from Patsy's jacket that were found on the duct tape and in the garrote?

    Hello rashomon. Nice to see your name here again. I would need to listen to the recording again, but here is an excerpt from cynic's post on this thread - page 11, which will fill you in on some of Dr, Wecht's thoughts on this sexual attack on JonBenét that fatal night. There are other interesting expert opinions included in this post.


    cynic's Post #52 - August 16, 2011, 11:29 pm, Tue Aug 16 23:29:45 CDT 2011
    December 25, 2006
    GLOBE EXCLUSIVE
    Special Report by Dawna Kaufmann
    JONBENET: DID MOM DO IT?
    WHAT THE EXPERTS SAY

    Expert #6 - Dr. Cyril Wecht, forensic pathologist

    Sadistic game gone awry

    JonBenet died during a sadistic game, concludes famed forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril H. Wecht.

    "A very thorough autopsy was performed and reads like a horror thriller:' Wecht tells GLOBE. "All the clues are there to determine the terrible events that caused this child's heart to stop beating."

    Cause of death for the 3-foot-ll, 45-pound girl was ligature strangulation and a severely fractured skull. She also had abrasions on various body parts and suffered vaginal injuries.

    "The crucial element here is that the cord was not intended to kill JonBenet" says Wecht. "It was wrapped rather gently around her neck with no hemorrhages or fractures, which means this was an accidental strangulation.

    "I believe somebody that night was playing a sadistic game with JonBenet, possibly for sexual gratification - and possibly a game that had been played before. The head blow and vaginal injuries were just staging.

    "Typically, when I see sexual choking deaths, the perpetrator is male. But there have been exceptions. Since no semen was found, there's nothing to this murder that would exclude Patsy Ramsey as the killer.

    "With Patsy's death the case is over."
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  8. #68
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    KK wrote: Post No.57 It's just stunning to this day for me to think about how the DA buried this case when the very LEAST he could have gone after was sexual abuse of a child. Hunter didn't want to prosecute this case...ever...for any reason.
    Thanks to Cynic, I was reading Dr. Henry Lee's excerpt from cynic's post on page 11 - Post No.52, it seems Lee was influential in making up DA Hunter's mind telling him not to file charges against the Ramseys.

    Expert #5 - Dr. Henry Lee, famed criminalist
    Fiber, prints and DNA

    Patsy Ramsey should have been brought to trial for getting in the way of justice for their daughter, charges famed criminalist Dr. Henry Lee.

    "It seemed to me there was enough evidence to establish the level of proof needed to indict Patsy Ramsey of at least, obstruction of justice," Lee tells GLOBE.

    "But in the state of Colorado, that lesser option was not possible as long as there was the potential for a homicide charge."

    Lee, arguably the world's leading criminalist, reveals in this GLOBE exclusive that there was plenty of physical evidence, including fingerprints, hair, fibers, DNA, duct tape from JonBenet's mouth and the cord used to strangle her.

    But none of the evidence tied a specific person to the crime.

    "Even with all the evidence, I could see we were lacking luck," says Lee, who served as a consultant for the Boulder D.A.'s office.

    "Many of the authorities involved believed that they lacked Patsy's complete cooperation, who seemed lawyered up.

    By the time of the 1998 grand jury hearings, "I gave the case less than a 50 percent chance of being solved," Lee recalls.

    "Thirteen months later, when its deliberations were completed but before the panel had the chance to vote on indicting one or both Ramseys, I told the D.A. that the best course of action would be to not file charges.

    "It broke his heart, but he knew I was right - the case at that point was unwinnable."
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Hello rashomon. Nice to see your name here again. I would need to listen to the recording again, but here is an excerpt from cynic's post on this thread - page 11, which will fill you in on some of Dr, Wecht's thoughts on this sexual attack on JonBenét that fatal night. There are other interesting expert opinions included in this post.
    Thank you Elle for providing the excerpt from Cynic's post.

    cynic's Post #52 - August 16, 2011, 11:29 pm, Tue Aug 16 23:29:45 CDT 2011
    December 25, 2006
    GLOBE EXCLUSIVE
    Special Report by Dawna Kaufmann
    JONBENET: DID MOM DO IT?
    WHAT THE EXPERTS SAY

    Expert #6 - Dr. Cyril Wecht, forensic pathologist

    Sadistic game gone awry

    JonBenet died during a sadistic game, concludes famed forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril H. Wecht.

    "A very thorough autopsy was performed and reads like a horror thriller:' Wecht tells GLOBE. "All the clues are there to determine the terrible events that caused this child's heart to stop beating."

    Cause of death for the 3-foot-ll, 45-pound girl was ligature strangulation and a severely fractured skull. She also had abrasions on various body parts and suffered vaginal injuries.

    "The crucial element here is that the cord was not intended to kill JonBenet" says Wecht. "It was wrapped rather gently around her neck with no hemorrhages or fractures, which means this was an accidental strangulation.

    "I believe somebody that night was playing a sadistic game with JonBenet, possibly for sexual gratification - and possibly a game that had been played before. The head blow and vaginal injuries were just staging.

    "Typically, when I see sexual choking deaths, the perpetrator is male. But there have been exceptions. Since no semen was found, there's nothing to this murder that would exclude Patsy Ramsey as the killer.

    "With Patsy's death the case is over."
    "The crucial element here is that the cord was not intended to kill JonBenet" says Wecht. "It was wrapped rather gently around her neck with no hemorrhages or fractures, which means this was an accidental strangulation.
    But couldn't the "rather gently wrapping of the cord around the neck" also indicate that it was a staged scene where the cord was put around the neck after the head blow?

    "Typically, when I see sexual choking deaths, the perpetrator is male. But there have been exceptions. Since no semen was found, there's nothing to this murder that would exclude Patsy Ramsey as the killer.
    Could this indicate that the results of the 'reinvestigation' point to Patsy Ramsey as the killer of JonBenet?
    Last edited by rashomon; September 3, 2011, 3:17 am at Sat Sep 3 3:17:31 UTC 2011.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon View Post
    Thank you Elle for providing the excerpt from Cynic post.




    But couldn't the "rather gently wrapping of the cord around the neck" also indicate that was staged scene where the cord was put around the neck after the head blow?


    Could this indicate that the results of the 'reinvestigation' point to Patsy Ramsey as the killer of JonBenet?
    I personally think the reinvestigation does point to Patsy Ramsey, rashomon. Like Detective Steve Thomas stated, I too think Patsy Ramsey was in an uncontrollable rage over JonBenét's bedwetting, but she must have known her little girl was also being sexually abused. I'm sure mothers of little girls would know if their little girls were being interfered with through constantly bathing them. I just had little boys to look after.

    Reading over Dr. Wecht's information relating to the measurements of JonBenét's hymen has really shocked me to the core. This poor little girl must have been sexualy abused many times with Patsy Ramsey knowing it. Unbelievable!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.



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