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  1. #1
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    Default Tonight (12/26/11) 9 pm EST -A special Jonbenet Ramsey show on Websleuths radio!

    Tonight we have a very special radio show. In fact it starts in about 30 minutes.

    JonBenet Ramsey is our topic and our guests include:

    BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT DR. LILLIAN GLASS

    TRUE CRIME AUTHOR DAWNA KAUFMAN WHOSE LATEST BOOK WITH DR CYRIL WECHT IS ENTITTLED, FROM CRIME SCENE TO COURT ROOM

    FORENSIC PSYCOLOGIST GLENN LIPSON

    Joining us will be our own Peggy Lakin, Zoomama, Cynic, and hopefully Super Dave.

    Here is the link. Feel free to call in and join in the discussion

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleu...h-9-pm-eastern

    760...825..0933
    tgrif@xmission.com
    FFJ C/O Tricia Griffith
    6300 N Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H #214
    Park City UT
    84098




    I am unaware of anyone who's profited from exploiting the Ramsey murder over a longer period of time, with a greater disregard for the principles of accuracy and fairness, than the production team of Mills and Tracey.They truly do inhabit a different moral universe from real journalists. It's the difference between journalism and propaganda.
    Alan Prendergast,reporter for Westword

  2. #2
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    Tricia ~ I really enjoyed the program. I'm hearing the end of it now, Little is talking about her (excellent) book.

    Lillian Glass was my favorite guest.

    I will go to my grave believing Burke was involved. I know that's never been a popular opinion here at all. But I have always been able to state it at FFJ without being hissed off the forum.

    As always, thank you.
    This post, unless it is a legal court document, may not be carried in part, or in its entirety to any other discussion forum or bulletin board without the express written consent of the party who wrote it. It is proprietary to the author and to www.forumsforjustice.org. Violators will be reported to their Internet Service Providers.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by JC View Post
    Tricia ~ I really enjoyed the program. I'm hearing the end of it now, Little is talking about her (excellent) book.

    Lillian Glass was my favorite guest.

    I will go to my grave believing Burke was involved. I know that's never been a popular opinion here at all. But I have always been able to state it at FFJ without being hissed off the forum.

    As always, thank you.
    It was a nice experience JC and I am grateful for the opportunity. It's not easy to be in the company of those professionals and gather your thoughts though

    As far as the Burke theory there's the absolute fact that four people alive and well entered that house on 12/25/96, and at some time before the troops were called in only three of them had survived. This has always seemed like one of those: either just A happened, or A, B, C, D, E, F, happened. Of course just A could have happened, but because of the rest of the alphabet's involvement they all decided to run for cover.

    I would never hiss at you JC.
    No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man. -Heraclitus Fragments c. 500 BC

  4. #4

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    I finally got the time to listen to it, and this program is brilliant!

    It's the best discussion I"ve ever heard of this case, hands down. Each person added so much in information, perspective, logical speculation, ideas, theories, and questions.

    Little, you dropped in important facts and information I was thinking needed to be brought up myself, like that Douglas never interviewed Patsy or Burke.

    Cynic, you had excellent questions and information to further the discussion, as well.

    Dawna was as articulate about this case as I've ever heard her, particularly on the issue of prior molestation. Dr. Wecht is the sole medical examiner's voice in the dark on this, and I will always be grateful to him for never letting that critical fact of this case be buried by Team Ramsey, because it is the one piece of evidence that to me irrefutably proves this assault began long before that night and therefore was not perpetrated by a stranger intruder.

    Dr. Glass and Dr. Lipson were impeccable in their professional expertise, speaking to the elements of the crime without prejudice. Dr. Lipson's insight into motives and the psychology of those involved in cases with similar crimes and dynamics was priceless. Much to think about there, because he clarified for me a possible motive for Patsy: revenge, if JR was discussing divorce, which we've heard whispers of that. Of course it's still speculation, but something to ponder.

    Another issue Lipson brought up that gives me pause is how abusers blame the victim for something they have done, to appease the abuser's guilty conscience. It takes me back to the 10th anniversary Larry King Live show in remembrance of JonBenet's murder, when John was asked by Larry if he wondered what her life would be like if she'd lived: after a long pause, John said that JonBenet was a handful--and then said no more about her. Another comment attributed to Patsy by the close family friend Pam Archuleta, John's pilot's wife, was that Patsy said JonBenet flirted too much with strangers. We know JonBenet was being molested, and a hallmark of sexually abused children is age inappropriate sexual behavior. I believe Patsy did know about the molestation, and I believe this was the catalyst in some way to the death of JonBenet. Remember the 3 phones calls in an hour, after office hours, to pediatrician Dr. Beouf, on Dec. 17th? Patsy didn't remember why she made the calls, she told Boulder LE. What did Dr. Beouf's records say? We don't know, as they have remained in a ghost file, strangely deposited in a bank vault which was then burgled, according to another hazy media report--cameras and bank vault security notwithstanding!

    Another great insight Dr. Lipton gave was how a parent can be very loving and yet have an inability to deal with anger. That fits with the head blow happening first. My personal opinion, with all due respect to those much more knowledgeable who should have convinced me by now (god help me, it HAS to add up), is that the head blow was struck in rage first. The evidence that leads me to that conclusion: JonBenet's blood was found on her bed pillow, probably from blood draining from her nose, but her urine was (allegedly) found in the carpet in the basement by the cellar door, along with the materials to make the handle for the garrote, indicating the attack started in/near her bedroom but she died from the strangulation in the basement. Additionally, there is still no evidence on the body of defensive injuries. More to the point, if there were a sexual abuser who accidently suppressed the vagus nerve during an erotic strangulation, then why would he/she have to bludgeon the child at that point--she's already dead? See my problem? I've seen varying opinions about the time between the head wounds and strangulation, so until someone definitively explains it all in a logical sequence with all the evidence, I'm unable to accept it was a sex game gone wrong.

    Also, I don't include or exclude Burke from some elements of the horrific events of that night, but I don't believe he could have carried an unconscious JonBenet down two flights of stairs to the basement. IMO But I digress.

    Yet another gem of the discussion is dissecting the psychology of Mary Lacy's eventual corruption regarding this case: how she got so invested in her personally held beliefs and then searched for evidence to back it up to reinforce those; pumped up by her absolute power to make spurious declarations and decisions based on biases rather than the body of evidence, Lacy failed miserably, as Dawna said.

    And thank you all for laying John Douglas open. It's good to hear that my impression of his huge betrayal of a murdered child wasn't just my own ego at work. We all have feet of clay, but he hurt this case so carelessly. Dr. Lipman and Donna had inside info and personal experience in the field with Douglas and his peers that we haven't heard before. Thanks so much for sharing that with us who have spent years online trying to keep the record of Douglas' disinformation campaign with Lou Smit from becoming Team Ramsey "fact."

    And I can't forget Zoomama! It was lovely hearing you participate, as well. Your question about whether Burke would even be believed if he spoke now was an excellent one.

    These are just a few thoughts on the excellent work you all did. Bravo to you all.

    But most of all, Tricia, you are in your element and astonishing. You guided the group with ease, kept the discussion moving with key questions and information, and were on top of the elements of the case and the players with an accuracy long lost on today's crop of slap-dash misinformation brokers barking on TV.

    You done good, girl! Really good.
    Last edited by koldkase; December 30, 2011, 2:01 pm at Fri Dec 30 14:01:31 UTC 2011.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  5. #5
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    Wink

    Ahhhh, Koldkase. I've said this before and I'll say it again...when you grace us with your writings I drop everything and pay attention. You have such an in depth command of all this cases' facts at your every beck and call that I'm amazed. And yes, Tricia did do her self proud with this program. (as with all her radio shows)

    Cynic has the facts of this case down cold also and can fire away with questions that go to the heart of the matter.

    Thank you kindly for your words. I'm not one of the keeper of facts for this case but I've been around all of you who are and that makes me very very smart by association! Heh!
    "When are we going to get our heads out of the sand and understand that sometimes really nice people who look good on the outside are dastardly on the inside." Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, MA

  6. #6
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    Default

    I missed the broadcast, but Tricia has posted a link. I will hopefully get to it this weekend, and I will weigh in then.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  7. #7
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    I am with you Zoomama, when KoldKase posts I stop whateverthehellIamdoing and read.

    Of course that goes for so many of our members. When I start to read here my life comes to a complete standstill. LOL

    Thank you all for your kind comments and for your participation.

    Great Shows are coming in 2012 concerning JBR and other cases.

    NONE of this would have happened if not for all your hard work.

    THANK YOU.
    tgrif@xmission.com
    FFJ C/O Tricia Griffith
    6300 N Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H #214
    Park City UT
    84098




    I am unaware of anyone who's profited from exploiting the Ramsey murder over a longer period of time, with a greater disregard for the principles of accuracy and fairness, than the production team of Mills and Tracey.They truly do inhabit a different moral universe from real journalists. It's the difference between journalism and propaganda.
    Alan Prendergast,reporter for Westword

  8. #8

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    Aw, Zoomama and Tricia, y'all made me tear up a little bit.

    Okay, over it!

    No, really, how I got so lucky as to get dragged into this eternity in child murder hell, I have no idea, but I couldn't have picked a better group of Guttah buddies than all of you to spend it with.

    Loves you ALL!

    Deedee, you are in for a treat, you have no idea. I never expected to hear such a great program on this case, especially after so many years of FULL OUT BS spread by Team Ramsey through the mainstream media.

    Leave it to our TRICIA to shame them all! I'm as proud as a hen on Sunday!

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    No, really, how I got so lucky as to get dragged into this eternity in child murder hell, I have no idea, but I couldn't have picked a better group of Guttah buddies than all of you to spend it with.

    Loves you ALL!
    Ditto that, KK! There have been days I've kicked myself for spending so much time and energy on a case that was corrupt from the beginning. I now look back on my naivete and expectations of justice and shake my head. What was I thinking? I should have known the outcome when the Ramseys refused to go to the Boulder Police Station and answer questions, AND no one in the DA's office batted an eye. Would you or I be allowed to get away with that? Absolutely not! Until this case, I had never heard of witnesses or suspects REFUSING to be interviewed by detectives unless their list of ridiculous demands were met. That was my first clue that the fix was in and the Ramseys had something to hide.

    Fifteen years later, I am older and wiser and much more cynical. I have lost all faith in the American justice system. I know there are actually two American justice systems; one for the wealthy and powerful, and another for the rest of us. I know that if you have enough money, and an SOB for a lawyer, you can sue everyone who tries to tell the truth, and while you're doing it, you can shut down the First Amendment. You can make people so AFRAID to say anything, that the truth becomes another victim; bludgeoned and strangled and wrapped in a white blanket of fake innocence.

    For many years, I've known that Patsy wrote the ransom note. It is what has kept me involved with the case all this time. People and theories and alleged evidence has come and gone, but that one fact remained the same. As a parent, what I could not reconcile was how Patsy could have possibly brought herself to write that note with her child's dead body in the basement. Finally, the answer came to me after seeing Patsy's last public interview (conducted in April 2004). Patsy stated unequivocably that at six years old, JonBenet had fulfilled her purpose on earth. Patsy went on to emphasize there had been so many people who had been touched by JonBenet spiritually, and expounded on her belief that JonBenet had brought them to salvation. How this actually took place, Patsy never explained. It was obvious from Patsy's words that she was totally convinced of her rationalization for JonBenet's death. In Patsy's mind, it was worth it! That glimpse into Patsy's psyche helped me see the Patsy who practiced, and then wrote, the mother of all ransom notes. Patsy could justify ANYTHING, even the death of her little girl, whether it was hours or years previously. Perfect Patsy in her perfect life could put shinola on any situation. It was her way of survival.

    Even though my disillusionment and disgust with the Ramsey case has been great, I agree that I, too, have been surrounded by the best bunch of Guttah sleuths there are! I have learned so much and made lifelong friends. If I had to go down this road, I'm glad it was with all of you.

    Leave it to our TRICIA to shame them all! I'm as proud as a hen on Sunday!
    Hear! Hear! That is the honest truth!

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    Ditto that, KK! There have been days I've kicked myself for spending so much time and energy on a case that was corrupt from the beginning. I now look back on my naivete and expectations of justice and shake my head. What was I thinking? I should have known the outcome when the Ramseys refused to go to the Boulder Police Station and answer questions, AND no one in the DA's office batted an eye. Would you or I be allowed to get away with that? Absolutely not! Until this case, I had never heard of witnesses or suspects REFUSING to be interviewed by detectives unless their list of ridiculous demands were met. That was my first clue that the fix was in and the Ramseys had something to hide.

    Fifteen years later, I am older and wiser and much more cynical. I have lost all faith in the American justice system. I know there are actually two American justice systems; one for the wealthy and powerful, and another for the rest of us. I know that if you have enough money, and an SOB for a lawyer, you can sue everyone who tries to tell the truth, and while you're doing it, you can shut down the First Amendment. You can make people so AFRAID to say anything, that the truth becomes another victim; bludgeoned and strangled and wrapped in a white blanket of fake innocence.

    For many years, I've known that Patsy wrote the ransom note. It is what has kept me involved with the case all this time. People and theories and alleged evidence has come and gone, but that one fact remained the same. As a parent, what I could not reconcile was how Patsy could have possibly brought herself to write that note with her child's dead body in the basement. Finally, the answer came to me after seeing Patsy's last public interview (conducted in April 2004). Patsy stated unequivocably that at six years old, JonBenet had fulfilled her purpose on earth. Patsy went on to emphasize there had been so many people who had been touched by JonBenet spiritually, and expounded on her belief that JonBenet had brought them to salvation. How this actually took place, Patsy never explained. It was obvious from Patsy's words that she was totally convinced of her rationalization for JonBenet's death. In Patsy's mind, it was worth it! That glimpse into Patsy's psyche helped me see the Patsy who practiced, and then wrote, the mother of all ransom notes. Patsy could justify ANYTHING, even the death of her little girl, whether it was hours or years previously. Perfect Patsy in her perfect life could put shinola on any situation. It was her way of survival.

    Even though my disillusionment and disgust with the Ramsey case has been great, I agree that I, too, have been surrounded by the best bunch of Guttah sleuths there are! I have learned so much and made lifelong friends. If I had to go down this road, I'm glad it was with all of you.



    Hear! Hear! That is the honest truth!
    That is just perfectly expressed, Chero. I feel you down to the last exclamation mark.

    We kind of "grew up" together here, in this case, didn't we? We learned that the government's propaganda machine had snookered us for...well, our entire lives. It took the Ramsey's murdering their child for us to get that lesson, sadly.


    But I have to thank you from the bottom of my soul for this, because in this one paragraph, you have entirely solved the mystery of Patsy Ramsey:


    As a parent, what I could not reconcile was how Patsy could have possibly brought herself to write that note with her child's dead body in the basement. Finally, the answer came to me after seeing Patsy's last public interview (conducted in April 2004). Patsy stated unequivocably that at six years old, JonBenet had fulfilled her purpose on earth. Patsy went on to emphasize there had been so many people who had been touched by JonBenet spiritually, and expounded on her belief that JonBenet had brought them to salvation. How this actually took place, Patsy never explained. It was obvious from Patsy's words that she was totally convinced of her rationalization for JonBenet's death. In Patsy's mind, it was worth it! That glimpse into Patsy's psyche helped me see the Patsy who practiced, and then wrote, the mother of all ransom notes. Patsy could justify ANYTHING, even the death of her little girl, whether it was hours or years previously. Perfect Patsy in her perfect life could put shinola on any situation. It was her way of survival.
    VICTORY! my friend. I can now put that to rest, because you are 100% right.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  11. #11

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    Cherokee, I hope you don't mind; I've taken the liberty of sharing your thoughts on Patsy at Websleuths, giving you full credit, of course. It's a thread about this same Shapiro article and the discussion led right to your insights.

    If you are opposed to this, please let me know. I'm sure I'll take it down.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Cherokee, I hope you don't mind; I've taken the liberty of sharing your thoughts on Patsy at Websleuths, giving you full credit, of course. It's a thread about this same Shapiro article and the discussion led right to your insights.

    If you are opposed to this, please let me know. I'm sure I'll take it down.
    Of course, I'm not opposed ... I'm honored!



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