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  1. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    Longtime Denver radio (KHOW 630) talk show host, Peter Boyles, looked back at the case during his December 28, 2011 show.
    http://www.khow.com/main.html

    I remember one of the FBI agents in a conversation saying to me, “this ain’t no whodunit.”
    -Peter Boyles

    Guests:
    Julie Hayden
    Don Wrege
    Peter Fotopoulos

    Seven segments, total time: approximately 63 minutes.
    [snip]

    Part Six:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr6rDbiIk3k

    [snip]


    Parody songs featured during the show:
    Paula the Brown Nosed Newsie (Re: reporter, Paula Woodward)
    Werewolf of Boulder
    Big John “They were playing every citizen for a fool.”
    Only in Boulder “Only in Boulder, Key evidence, Is shared with the prime suspects”
    The (Ransom) Letter “Start off the first sentence "Listen carefully," Misspell some words so they don't think it's me. Use your other hand, make an odd demand. We'd better write us a letter.”
    (Hang Down your Head) Tom Koby “Turn in your badge Tom Koby, You probably let 'em get away”

    Listen to all 14 parody songs here: (Full lyrics included.)
    http://www.simulstream.com/mp3.html
    Now THIS has something in it that has my HEAD SPINNING!

    Oh my god. It answers SO MANY QUESTIONS I've had!

    A call-in listener says he worked for Boulder City for 39 years; he worked there during the time of the murder.

    He says he knew the BPD investigating this case, including those who were at the Ramsey home that morning, and they were all angry about something.

    They were angry because "first thing" Patsy Ramsey called her DEAR FRIEND, SHARED-CANCER PATIENT BUDDY, IN FACT, MAYOR LESLIE DURGIN. This man claims that very same mayor--you may remember her publicly telling citizens of Boulder not to worry, there was NO CHILD KILLER RUNNING AROUND--called then POLICE CHIEF KOBY AND TOLD HIM THIS WAS A PERSONAL TRAGEDY AND TO GO EASY ON THE RAMSEYS!

    Stating up front that that I've never heard this story before, don't know the man telling it, and thanks to Peter Boyle's one flaw as an interviewer--he hardly lets others get a word in edgewise--we only get the bare bones of this story so have no other corroboration that I've ever seen: think about the implication of this, if it's true.

    * This would explain why Hunter doggedly refused to get those Ramsey phone records, as this certainly would go a long way to proving the Ramseys were guilty. I'd also possibly owe Lockheed Martin a big apology--oh, how I hate eating crow.

    * This would explain why the BPD "screwed up" the case so spectacularly: showing up in marked cars, allowing a dozen friends to roam the house, leaving Arndt alone when she was calling for help. It was a done deal before they got there--Koby would have known what happened, more or less, and that's why standard protocol was ignored, including interviewing the Ramseys separately.

    * Hunter's obstruction would be explained, as he surely knew the mayor and of course, as politicians in the same county of privilege, it wouldn't be much of a stretch that they would "scratch each other's backs."

    *Since none of the players in this had any idea that morning this would go beyond Boulder, it wouldn't have occurred to them they'd spend the rest of their lives defending and obscuring what they did. So protecting their rich, close friends probably wasn't even something they thought about carefully--they just made the calls and figured from there it would be buried quickly.

    Okay, I'm still in shock about this. How I wish Boyle's would have SHUT HIS MOUTH and let the man talk. sigh

    Thoughts, anyone? Cause this is HUGE. MAJOR. A BREAK IN THE CASE--for us, at any rate. No doubt if it's true, many, MANY LE in Boulder knew all about it, yet to this day, this is the FIRST I've heard, and I've spent a little time on it.

    Notice I'm still saying IF...so many things to think about.

    But this feels at this moment like the one piece of the puzzle that would fill in a critical spot.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
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  2. #14

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    And now back to the beginning and google.

    Found this article which quotes Leslie Durgin about the case. Also some other "interested parties." I'm reading things in light of, what if they knew the Ramseys did it up front and were in on the cover up, all of them? Circling the wagons to protect "their own," so to speak?

    Leslie says something very disturbing. Quoting from the article: "Ethical questions arose. She never wanted to lie to the media or anyone else about what she knew about the case. 'So there were times when I just told (Police Chief Tom) Koby, "I don't want to know." ' ''

    She didn't want to know because she didn't want to lie to the media? What didn't she want to know? And why would she feel she had to lie about it to the media? Was she afraid that she'd get caught "lying" to the media? If she helped cover up this murder did she actually commit a crime? Like "obstruction"? Any lawyers around?

    Was she inadvertently saying she didn't want to know what the evidence was telling them because perhaps it wasn't what the Ramseys told her that morning? Like that JonBenet was being molested before the night of her murder and being strangled by garrote wasn't exactly an accident? I'm just speculating, but looking at Durgin's statement in the context of what the caller to Boyle's show said, one has to ask, if true, what did Patsy tell her happened in the phone call asking for help in this "personal tragedy"?

    I can't tell you how my heart is pounding. IF this is true, it's been right there under our noses the whole time--and even when revealed, it's completely missed because everyone is so invested in their own vision of this case.

    I wonder if Steve Thomas knew of this. Why did he leave that out of his book? Because he didn't want to run the bus over his fellow law officers? Get sued for something he couldn't prove? If he knew this, knows this, I can only imagine it's like a stone in his heart.

    Well, I'm probably beyond making sense right now. Anyone else seeing any of this, or am I in need of a good shrink? Cause how many times through the years has something seeming to be so profoundly important ended up being completely a red herring?

    http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon157.htm

    Case has changed lives
    Boulder will never be the same
    What's the average person think?
    Chuck Green: No quiet Christmas for Boulder
    Key landmarks in the case
    By The Denver Post
    Dec. 14 - They all have their own stories on how the year-old investigation into the death of JonBenet Ramsey has affected them.
    Police Cmdr. John Eller lost his position overseeing the case, and in February will leave the police force after 18 years in Boulder.
    Attorney Hal Haddon thought he was merely helping a friend by agreeing to represent John Ramsey for what Haddon thought would be a day or two of legal work. Since then, he's lost some friends as a result of the case based on whether they were viewing the murder objectively or trying to benefit from it.
    Tom Koby is leaving as police chief in Boulder at the end of 1998. History may show that the Ramsey case was the beginning of Koby's undoing.
    It's been the most hyped murder story of the year - the death of a child beauty queen and the suspicion lingering over her wealthy parents. Its many twists and turns have taken a toll on a number of people:
    LESLIE DURGIN
    Leslie Durgin was Boulder mayor until last month. The Ramsey case and the crisis it created in the Boulder police department made her rethink her position as Boulder's political figurehead, she said.
    "I had to change my definition of my job,'' Durgin said. "There were times as mayor when I had to put aside my own personal ideas, my own personal desire to know...
    "My role became to understand the role of the police department and to support the police department. A different mayor may have made a different decision.''
    Ethical questions arose. She never wanted to lie to the media or anyone else about what she knew about the case. "So there were times when I just told (Police Chief Tom) Koby, 'I don't want to know.' ''
    Other questions linger. "What happens when the community desire to know conflicts with the need for privacy to get the investigation done?'' she asked. "What happens when some of the media are very ethical and some are very unethical?''
    Durgin recalled recently how that she'd always wanted to work for a tabloid, just to see what it was like "to get paid to make up stories.'' Now, after nearly a year of answering questions from the tabloid press about the Ramsey murder case, her curiosity has been more than satisfied about how it's done, she said.

    PAT KORTEN
    During his career with the U.S. Justice Department, Pat Korten worked on a number of high-profile cases, including riots by Cuban prisoners in a federal prison in Atlanta after the 1980 Mariel boat lift. The intensity of the Ramsey case measures up to any other, said Korten, who served as the family's spokesman for three months after the murder.
    "It was as challenging as any task can be in the crisis communications business,'' Korten said. "It was a wrenching emotional experience. I don't think I've ever been involved where people (John and Patsy Ramsey) have been under more stress,'' Korten said. "Losing a daughter in a vicious horrible murder and being a suspect. It's hard for me to imagine how one would successfully get through that without terrible emotional scars.''
    Korten, currently vice president of communications for the Cato Institute in Washington, D.C., never planned to work on the the Ramsey case indefinitely. "After three months and 18,000 frequent flier miles it became evident that it was going to be a long time,'' Korten said.
    LAURIE WAGNER
    Laurie Wagner was a vice president with the computer firm owned by John Ramsey at the time of his daughter's murder. She took on the task of dealing with media calls, spending up to six hours a day, every day, fielding inquires about John Ramsey in the months after the murder.
    "It distracted me from a lot of other business duties,'' Wagner said. "From a personal standpoint, it precluded me from working in other areas of the company.''
    Wagner, who is leaving Access Graphics to start her own small business, was drawn closely to the murder case because of a business tie. But the shocking death of 6-year-old JonBene┌t had a personal impact on the single mother with two children.
    "The initial reaction that I had, and that was shared by a lot of people, is to look inward to the people who are close to you and ask: 'Are they safe?' '' Wagner said. "I checked the security of my own home and looked at my own children.''
    "The difficulties of John Ramsey ... I use it to put other things in my own life in perspective. I have nothing to complain about. I feel deeply for what they are going through and the lack of resolution'' in the case, she said.
    BOB GREENLEE
    Bob Greenlee was elected mayor of Boulder last month after 14 years on the city council. He is a millionaire businessman who started his career as a broadcast journalist.
    "This case has taken a huge toll on the police department and others, and I'm sympathetic (to) and concerned about these people,'' Greenlee said. "I have known Tom Koby for a long time, and this has not been an easy situation for him. I worked with John Eller when I was chairman of the liquor licensing authority ... He is a sincere and dedicated, professional cop.''
    But the case is not keeping Greenlee awake nights.
    "It is impossible for a major event like this to have no impact on a person. But is it the thing that consumes me? No,'' he said.
    "There are other challenges facing the community, and I, now as mayor, feel I have a responsibility to set a course for tackling those challenges. I could give you a dozen different things that need to be done in the city that are occupying my attention before the Ramsey case.''
    BRETT SAWYER
    An opportunity to make a quick buck drew Boulder private investigator Brett Sawyer into the case and he's been paying for it since.
    "My business has almost overnight dissolved. I'm probably at 25 percent of the caseload I was at a year ago,'' he said. Sawyer paid a processing lab technician $200 for 20 crime-scene photos and sold them to a national tabloid for $5,500. When the Globe ran some of the photos, authorities traced the leak to Sawyer and Lawrence Shawn Smith, the former lab tech who sold the photos. "We all screw up from time to time. I picked a poor venue in which to make a mistake. I'm not an evil, amoral, unethical individual,'' Sawyer said.
    For the most part, Sawyer has been blackballed from working in the metro area, he said. The private investigator interviewed for a position with a Denver law firm recently. "They didn't recognize my name. When they found out who I was as far as the reported association with the Ramsey case, they decided they didn't want to hire me after all.
    "It has created a great amount of stress in our (family) lives. It continues to be a stigma on my professional life. Because it affects my professional life and livelihood, it affects my personal life.''
    LESLIE AAHOLM
    For several months after the murder, the case became city spokeswoman Leslie Aaholm's No. 1 priority, edging out budget meetings and other day-to-day city business.
    "Initially it consumed my time and life from 5:30 in the morning until 10:15 at night on a pretty regular basis,'' Aaholm said.
    Her husband took it good naturedly.
    "He jokes that when he asks me 'what's for dinner?' I say I'll get back to him,'' said Aaholm.
    The media inquiries have subsided now, but Aaholm figures she still spends at least 4 to 5 hours a week fielding calls and meeting with police on the Ramsey case. The case has changed Aaholm's view of the media.
    "I continue to be surprised by how this seems to have captivated the tabloids and some of the mainstream media.''
    Aaholm, who worked in radio in Arizona, Texas and Boulder, said she's had to walk a tightrope.
    "It's been difficult for me to balance the needs of the police department and the city of Boulder against what my professional tendencies would normally be - to be more open, to be more forthcoming and to give the media everything they need,'' she said. "Because of the complexities of this case, we haven't been able to do that.'
    Aaholm predicts the case will have long-range effects on the media and police.
    "I think it will at some point become fodder for case studies related to journalism, public relations and police work. It's sort of a one of a kind case now and will be a case study later.''
    GEORGE EPP
    The Ramsey murder has affected Boulder County Sheriff George Epp as a father, a law enforcement officer and a Boulder resident.
    "The tragedy of this little girl being murdered and the fact there is no resolution - that nobody has been held accountable - is difficult for me,'' said Epp, who has daughters about the same age as JonBenet.
    Epp said the case also has created a tremendous amount of tension in the law enforcement community in Boulder.
    "I see it taking a toll on my friends in the police department and the district attorney's office. There's been some damage that has been done to people that I like.''
    Epp thinks the case also has had a big effect on the community.
    "I think that there's some people who are angry about what they perceive are problems in the police department...And there's conflict over some people's perception as to whether there is any problem at all. There are, I think, people who still think everything is fine.''
    BOB BERNARD
    Bob Bernard, administrator for the state courts in the 20th Judicial District, has been a court administrator for almost 26 years but has never seen a case attract as much interest as this murder.
    "This is an extremely unique situation. I have never seen anything like this in my 26 years,'' said Bernard. "I would like to see a resolution.''
    If there's an arrest and prosecution, Bernard knows he has his work cut out for him.
    "...My contacts from around the country tell me that responding to inquiries and demands on behalf of the court will overtake any other responsibilities,'' he said.
    Bernard's focus is how to best balance the needs of the judicial branch with other needs, including that of the media.
    He's been conferring with colleagues across the country, including Jerrianne Hayslett, media information officer for the Superior Court in Los Angeles who handled the O.J. Simpson and Mendez brothers' murder trials along with the Rodney King case.
    Bernard has spent hundreds of hours planning and meeting with other city and county officials who would be affected by a trial in the Ramsey case. He's put together a fascimile transmission network to fax court papers in the Ramsey case to 130 media outlets from coast to coast. He's also installed a special telephone number for the media to call for updates in the Ramsey case.
    He usually works 60 hours a week. A trial would mean he'd have to work even more.
    "My other responsibilities will not go away so I'm going to have to reprioritize my other responsibilities and expand my work week,'' said Bernard.
    BOB GRANT
    As a career prosecutor, Adams County District Attorney Bob Grant has seen his share of child deaths.
    Murder cases involving children remain among the most troublesome to Grant, a member of the special prosecution task force established by Boulder DA Alex Hunter to help with the Ramsey case.
    "The unexplained death of a child always affects someone who's involved in the prosecution business. It's a very hard thing to take,'' said Grant. "Our business is to explain those deaths and bring the actors to justice. When you're not able to do that, it's very frustrating.''
    Grant has found himself the designated media contact for the special prosecution team and has discussed the Ramsey case on a number of television and radio shows.
    "There's positives and negatives to that,'' said Grant. "It's important that false information and wild speculation get answered. It's also important that the integrity of the investigation remains paramount so there are a lot of things that I can't talk about.''

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  3. #15

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    I decided to do a quick/rough transcript from the section of the radio show in which the caller "Rick" says Patsy called Mayor Leslie Durgin at home and Durgin then called Chief Koby that morning, for further discussion.

    As best as I could hear it, it went like this, beginning at marker 6:35. (Any corrections of typos or transcription are welcomed, and thanks in advance.)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr6rDbiIk3k

    Peter Boyles [PB]: Let's go to Rick; Rick, you're on a radio show, good morning.

    Rick: Hey, good morning Pete. How you doing?

    PB: [Hello/Hey] man, I'm good, thank you.

    Rick: I worked for the city of Boulder for 39 years, and I was working for them at the time, and I knew pretty much every cop that showed up that day, and I was talking to them later and a couple of things they were very upset about...

    PB: Let me do...[stutters a bit]...I wanna' talk to you...close to a traffic break, I want to give you plenty of time. Can I put you on hold?

    Rick: You got it.

    PB: Ricky, hang on everybody....

    [break]

    PB: [This started with the end of a word, sentence, or maybe a name?]...curt, I had to put you on hold, I apologize, and you worked in Boulder and you knew the cops, so if you would pick it up, please.

    Rick: Okay. I knew pretty much all the police that were involved with that and the thing that really bothered them was as soon as this evidently started Patsy called Leslie Durgin, the mayor...

    PB: Right.

    Rick: ...and told her what had happened.

    PB: I dubbed her the Great Leslie.

    Rick: You betcha'. Well, Durgin immediately called [Chief] Koby at home and according to a very good source said, "Look at: these are personal friends of mine," because they were in cancer treatment together, "and please handle them with kid gloves. This is a terrible tragedy." That's why the place was immediately opened and the crime scene was destroyed. And many of the police there, including Rick French, Tom Trujillo, bunch of them, the officer--I just spaced his name--who wrote the book, were so enraged. They couldn't believe it, cause it went right out the door, the whole case.

    PB: [interrupts] Yeah, but I don't know, that's pretty far-fetched....

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I quit transcribing here because Boyles went into a long diatribe about how the police were incompetent and this should have happened and blahblah, which had little to do with what the caller was talking about. Boyle has the same weakness a lot of us do: he has his version he believes in and so he has a hard time hearing anything contrary to that. Too bad, because Boyles had an amazing caller with an astonishing story that needs to be investigated NOW, and how he missed that is beyond me.

    Oh well. I'll be interested in hearing others' thoughts on this. I personally am thinking, did a Southern Belle from W. Virginia and a woman who was mayor fool LE across the world and destroy this case because they bonded over cancer? That would be almost hysterical, except for...dead child.
    Last edited by koldkase; February 6, 2012, 7:45 pm at Mon Feb 6 19:45:22 UTC 2012.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  4. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Boyles then introduces guest Peter Fotopoulos: they discuss the absurdity of the case, starting off with the Ramsey's absurd stories. They point out some key elements of evidence, including the "Rosetta Stone" of the case, the ransom note.

    Cynic, they bring up something that I don't believe I've seen: Peter says he's got a video of Darnay's depositions of Patsy and John, and in the family photo album, of which Patsy declared she had no idea who wrote the photo captions under her own photos of her children, letters from the ransom note were laid directly over those captions with a transparency and they matched exactly. Is this Cina Wong's work? I've seen that, but is this video online? Sorry, I may have just forgotten.

    Does anyone have this video? Cherokee? I do remember seeing parts of the video of those depositions, but only short segments, possibly released by Lin Wood, which means they wouldn't have included ANYTHING he considered damaging to the Ramseys. (Fortunately, Wood's "blinders-on" defense lawyer position kept him for seeing how damaging everything the Ramseys said truly was, because they lied, evaded, and obfuscated every time they spoke.) But I don't remember this particular ransom note demonstration.
    KK, that part of the video deposition was never released by Lin Wood for the very reason you mention, it was extremely damaging to the Patsy Ramsey.

    And yes, it is Cina Wong's work. No, the video is not online (as far as I know). I'm sure if someone tried to upload it, Lin Wood/the Ramseys would be all over it like a cheap suit, demanding it be taken down under threat of law suit and the plague.

    There's a double standard here. Lin Wood/ released segments of that video deposition he considered favorable to the Ramseys, but he wouldn't allow anything released that was UNFAVORABLE to the Ramseys. That's why the full deposition was never publicly released.

  5. #17
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    Hold the presses and start breathing again! Holy baloney! KoldKase this is something to really think about. I'll tell you the first thing that came to my mind...well the second thing really was that would explain away the reason for no phone records. Holy shint! Then the first thing that I thought of was that would explain all of the craziness of Lou Smit and his invention of an intruder. He could have been told to come up with something to help out the Ramseys. WE have all maligned him for years. But really he was a good detective and had an impressive "solved" record for homicides over his career. So why then did he seem like a goofy fool with this case? Perhaps this is why.

    In fact if this is true it would explain all of the goofy things like the friends coming over and cleaning up the house, destroying evidence along the way and so forth. OMG this is something to think about. And the grand jury with no verdict after all those months of investigating. No one in authority could or would move forward. That would also explain Woody's obsession with stopping everyone in their tracks from saying anything about the Ramseys in print or TV. Protect and misdirect as much as possible. You know what? They sure did their jobs didn't they.

    OOOOH Koldkase that is a bombshell (ala Nancy Grace!) Thank you.
    "When are we going to get our heads out of the sand and understand that sometimes really nice people who look good on the outside are dastardly on the inside." Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, MA

  6. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    Longtime Denver radio (KHOW 630) talk show host, Peter Boyles, looked back at the case during his December 28, 2011 show.
    http://www.khow.com/main.html

    I remember one of the FBI agents in a conversation saying to me, “this ain’t no whodunit.”
    -Peter Boyles
    Thank you Cynic. Will take my time and work my way through it and read what you all have to say about it at the same time.

    No relation to the case. I just finished listening to the first tape and wanted to say I enjoyed listening to Peter Boyle's voice. He has a very good speaking voice and I will enjoy listening to the other tapes.
    Last edited by Elle_1; February 7, 2012, 1:51 pm at Tue Feb 7 13:51:21 UTC 2012. Reason: Just adding a comment!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  7. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    KK, that part of the video deposition was never released by Lin Wood for the very reason you mention, it was extremely damaging to the Patsy Ramsey.

    And yes, it is Cina Wong's work. No, the video is not online (as far as I know). I'm sure if someone tried to upload it, Lin Wood/the Ramseys would be all over it like a cheap suit, demanding it be taken down under threat of law suit and the plague.

    There's a double standard here. Lin Wood/ released segments of that video deposition he considered favorable to the Ramseys, but he wouldn't allow anything released that was UNFAVORABLE to the Ramseys. That's why the full deposition was never publicly released.
    Excuse me while I KICK SOMETHING INANIMATE, POSSIBLY BREAKING MY FOOT AND A FEW OTHER THINGS IN THE PROCESS.

    I'm guessing the reason DARNAY didn't release this video is because he couldn't pay to get a copy?

    I swear, someone from the U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE should be investigating this case for obstruction.

    Oh, wait--they're in on it. Rich people protecting rich people.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/10/us...ted=all&src=pm

    But in recent days the Ramseys have declined police requests for formal, videotaped interviews. Last week, the parents hired separate legal counsel, two locally prominent criminal defense lawyers. They also hired Patrick S. Korten, a Washington media consultant who once was the top spokesman for the United States Department of Justice, to handle the press attention. Mr. Korten did not respond to telephone messages left with his office this week.
    Never mind.

    Thanks for your answer, Cherokee. This case was so fixed from Day One, I now see all of Patsy's "monologues" about her fear of being arrested, etc., as pure performance art. I guess all we can hope for is someone who has a copy leaking this stuff one day. It's possible, with the Internet. Like someone said, when JR dies, we may finally see the truth unobstructed.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
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  8. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by zoomama View Post
    Hold the presses and start breathing again! Holy baloney! KoldKase this is something to really think about. I'll tell you the first thing that came to my mind...well the second thing really was that would explain away the reason for no phone records. Holy shint! Then the first thing that I thought of was that would explain all of the craziness of Lou Smit and his invention of an intruder. He could have been told to come up with something to help out the Ramseys. WE have all maligned him for years. But really he was a good detective and had an impressive "solved" record for homicides over his career. So why then did he seem like a goofy fool with this case? Perhaps this is why.

    In fact if this is true it would explain all of the goofy things like the friends coming over and cleaning up the house, destroying evidence along the way and so forth. OMG this is something to think about. And the grand jury with no verdict after all those months of investigating. No one in authority could or would move forward. That would also explain Woody's obsession with stopping everyone in their tracks from saying anything about the Ramseys in print or TV. Protect and misdirect as much as possible. You know what? They sure did their jobs didn't they.

    OOOOH Koldkase that is a bombshell (ala Nancy Grace!) Thank you.
    Appreciate the thanks, but it isn't my scoop. It would belong to Peter Boyles, if he could have gotten his head out of his...well, if he'd noticed his caller was handing him some important info which was at least worth a follow-up question or two. Egads, how did he miss that?

    Anyway...yeah, if true, it would explain so much. Even if the mayor was only called by Patsy and told there was a "kidnapping," it's still mind-blowing if she was the one putting the BPD into "protect the Ramseys" mode, thereby starting an injustice that will go down in the history of unsolved murders next to Jack the Ripper and Lizzie Borden.

    Yet another stroll down memory lane:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/10/us...ted=all&src=pm

    In their sole news appearance, on CNN, the Ramseys said last week that they had hired a private investigator and announced that they were offering a $50,000 reward for the capture of their daughter's killer.

    Mr. Ramsey dismissed as ''nauseating beyond belief'' the television reporter's suggestion that he might be a suspect. His wife, visibly upset, warned viewers in Boulder, ''There is a killer on the loose.''

    To this, Leslie Durgin, the Mayor, countered cryptically, ''There isn't a crazed killer on the loose.''
    Also, from the ever-interesting "Bonita Papers":

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...ead.php?t=4502

    When public attention did not seem to help the Ramseys' cause, Patsy tried
    another avenue. Patsy knew that one of her friends was also a good friend
    of the mayor of Boulder, Leslie Durgin. Patsy passed a message to the mayor
    through the mutual friend, which was relayed when the two met on a
    jogging path early one morning. Patsy asked, “Why aren’t you protecting
    me? Why aren’t you out there getting the real killer? Why aren’t the
    police helping us?” The mayor's reply was "We're doing everything that we
    can.
    I am thinking the "friend of a friend" began with Judith Phillips: From a transcript stored at ACR's site, the interview Judith Phillips did with Mame (typos and mistakes as transcribed):

    http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/0206200...sinterview.htm

    Judith is speaking of Patsy's philanthropic work after her cancer struggle:

    JP-Yea she was, she was.That's why we did the whole article in Colorado Women's News.It was her way of saying hey guys this was my experience and don't give up and I just know she also,I think she attended The American Cancer Society Meetings. She also helped out woman and called them personally.After she found out they had cancer.

    Mame- Did she feel the reward of what she was doing?

    JP-She must ,like when Leslie Durgin was diagnosed .

    Mame- With breast cancer.Our former mayor.

    JP-Yea our former mayor of Boulder.I told Patsy about it and she said get her phone number and she called Leslie Durgin and they must have had an incredible conversation.According to Leslie who told me that later.And recommened some books that would be some real spiritual supports for her,and she didn't have to do that but she did.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  9. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Thank you Cynic. Will take my time and work my way through it and read what you all have to say about it at the same time.

    No relation to the case. I just finished listening to the first tape and wanted to say I enjoyed listening to Peter Boyle's voice. He has a very good speaking voice and I will enjoy listening to the other tapes.
    I look forward to your thoughts on the program, Elle, as always.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  10. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I look forward to your thoughts on the program, Elle, as always.
    Thank you, KK. So much information to soak up. Wish I could just download it all into my head. I'm just wondering if this is what cynic has done with all these files he posted lately. Do we have a robot in our midst?
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  11. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I look forward to your thoughts on the program, Elle, as always.
    I find it hard to concentrate on what Julie Hayden is saying kk ; she talks a mile a minute. Just wish it was Michael Boyle himself. I was stunned to hear about the surgery John Mark Carr has gone through, Good Grief!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  12. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I look forward to your thoughts on the program, Elle, as always.
    Don't hold your breath KK. I doubt I could add anything. Truthfully, as I grow older, I don't have the same patience any more. There are just too many files here to concentrate on all at the one time. I've only listened to a few. I hate it when someone's speaking and they are interrupted and can't finish what they're saying.

    Going for some physiotherapy, but I'll keep on reading what you are all saying here because I am interested in your views.

    As per usual you are all posting good comments.

    OOPS! Here am I just getting to know Peter Boyles and liking his voice etc., KK and you're ready to flatten him. :-)
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.



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