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  1. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    I doubt Patsy Ramsey would have used anything but a perfect handle with her demeanor. everything had to be perfect, but she failed with the coverup. Everything was overdone! Wasn't there talk about the brush having been used on JonBenét. Too delicate to talk about here.

    From the autopsy report:
    Abrasion and vascular congestion of vaginal mucosa
    Yes; a small piece of birefringent material was found in the vaginal vault, consistent with the paintbrush from what has been written about it. Of course no one has ever stated that on a molecular level it is a match, so other sources have been speculated about--powder from rubber gloves, for one.

    Like someone who already lives in the house and knows where everything is kk (?).
    This is what I'm trying to imagine; why not find the scissors? I have five pairs of scissors in my house--off the top of my head, I can tell you where each of them is at this minute. Patsy surely knew where she could find a pair of scissors.

    Of course, it was dark and that's another issue about which I haven't quite been satisfied with the answers, but a neighbor saw "strange lights" in the house, so for the sake of discussion, let's say Patsy didn't want to turn the lights on and, using the Maglight, tried to find the scissors in the kitchen after she couldn't find them in JAR's upstairs bathroom. She couldn't locate them--kids, maid, etc., might have moved them--so she grabbed the kitchen knife?

    But that knife didn't work well, so she remembered Burke's Swiss Knife over the washing machine, went for that, hastily laid the kitchen knife on the washing machine where LE later found it, and left the diapers hanging out of the cabinet?

    But why didn't Patsy go to her own vanity in her own bathroom--I doubt very seriously that she didn't have scissors in there. Wouldn't John have small scissors for grooming?

    The only reasons I can imagine that she wouldn't think to locate scissors instead of clumsily using those dull knives would be because she didn't want to wake others in the house--John and Burke--or Burke was the one cutting those cords. It looks like something a child would do rather than an adult because no doubt it was tedious to cut like that and it seems you'd have to be quite short-sighted to cut through the cord like that three times.

    I say that because of the chopped, uneven ends--this appears not to have been easily done:



    Compare with cynic's experiment photos, particularly this one where he used a dull knife:

    [A thousand thanks to you for your efforts, cynic! ]


    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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    ~~~~~~
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  2. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    A few seconds over a flame will melt the ends and forever get rid of the “frizzies.”
    (I used to do this in my rock climbing days.)
    In the picture below I melted the right side and you can see the difference easily.
    I'm sure you know Haney asked Patsy about that very technique in her DA interview with him. But the cord ending in the photo hasn't been burned, has it?

    I'm behind on this discussion because I couldn't get into the forum at times yesterday, so let me see what others had to say--looked interesting.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  3. #27

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    I want to add to my previous post about items used in the staging.

    What "intruder" relies on finding a broken paintbrush (in the basement of his victims's house) to finish her off? Even IF they brought the nylon cord, they were still missing a key ingredient of the staged strangulation.

    The Ramseys wouldn't claim ownership of the Maglite but said they had one just like it. (So where was THEIR Maglite if that Maglite wasn't it?) They wouldn't claim ownership of the pineapple because it wasn't their "setup." I'm sure if asked, Patsy would have said that wasn't HER broken paintbrush even though the other end was found in her paint tray.

    The Ramseys tried to distance themselves from everything found to stage the crime scene. Even though the cord staging was amateurish, they were smart to use all of it because that meant the rest of the cord wasn't found in the house. It could help create the idea of an intruder who thought to bring the cord with him. Unfortunately, the "intruder" forgot he also needed to bring a Maglite, fresh cut pineapple, a pre-written ransom note, a pair of the correct-size "Wednesday" girls underwear AND a stick to make the staged ligature!

    It's hard being a non-existent intruder; you don't have a brain in your fake head!
    Last edited by Cherokee; May 4, 2012, 7:48 pm at Fri May 4 19:48:54 UTC 2012.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    I've always had a problem with the long length of cord used to tie JonBenet's wrists, as well as the very loose sailor loops that were used. That arrangement would not have kept JonBenet from using her arms and hands if she were still alive when the cords were placed on her, so it is obvious staging. But why so much cord? I think the fake strangling device (it wasn't a garrotte by any definition) was made first. For that, the "finished" end of the cord was used and there was some left over. The stager then got the idea to tie JonBenet's hands together. They used the rest of the cord in their feeble attempt to simulate real binding of a victim. It also got rid of any remaining cord that could be linked to something owned by the Ramseys, especially Patsy's art supplies.

    The staging of the strangulation was done to buy time and hide JonBenet's cracked skull until autopsy. Everything was calculated to prevent the discovery of the head injury, especially before the Ramseys could make their getaway (and hide behind their lawyers). Initially, John planned to fly himself, Patsy and Burke to Atlanta IMMEDIATELY but was only stopped by police. If he could have followed through with his plans, the Ramseys would have been out of Colorado within an hour of John "finding" JonBenet's body after the police failed to do so.
    Interesting. If Patsy and, possibly, John were "staging" everything, then maybe they used the dull knives to make it appear an intruder did this using his "rape kit"; rather than a nice, neat scissor cut--a rapist might have a knife in his kit, but not scissors?

    But I must point out what I know you know: the ligature, even if meant only for staging, in fact strangled the child to death.

    I can't imagine people clever enough to go to all these lengths not being able to tell their child was still alive, even if near death.

    So in this scenario, I'd think they meant to end her life. Whether they knew her head injury was going to kill her soon, I have no way of knowing. Some have theorized the killer(s) meant to finish her to make sure she never told what I will always believe was the motive behind the strangulation, and possibly the catalyst to all of this: who was molesting her.

    Patsy had already told Mrs. Pam Archuleta JonBenet "flirted" too much, was "too friendly." Clearly Patsy was blaming JonBenet. That's so common in cases of child abuse, particularly sexual abuse. Imagine the SCANDAL if "JonnieB" told the "wrong person" what was being done to her. The Ramsey power, position in the community--the pageant queen in Patsy might have been more than willing to prevent that from happening.

    But once that head blow was struck, things became trickier than keeping a six year old from talking. If one or more of the Ramseys conspired to cover this murder up that night, to prevent the sexual abuse from being discovered by strangling the child, inserting something to stage a sexual assault, and adding other staging details like wrist ligature, duct tape, and the ransom note to imply terrorists had targeted the family, would they have had any idea that an autopsy would reveal the sexual abuse?

    Of course. That's why something--the paintbrush?--was inserted into her vagina that night. To cover that up. But what the guilty party didn't know was that tissue specimens would reveal the injuries were not all fresh, but in fact were as old as days or weeks or months.

    The ransom note, the staging of JonBenet's body, the calling over of friends to provide a buffer (and a Greek chorus to Patsy's ultimate acting job while waiting for the kidnappers to call) was all done to buy time until the Ramseys could escape with the help of their powerful lawyers and the kingpins of Colorado politics. Even with the amateurish staging, it was the best they could do with the short amount of time they had to create a cover-up. Fifteen years later, we see that it worked very well.
    Well, of course it did. If your protectors owned the DA, you could murder anyone you please and get away with it, too. Especially if you had help--on the cell phone, let's imagine?

    One detail: I believe the killer(s) thought the body would be found within a short time by LE. Who wouldn't? It was a pure fluke that it took JR himself to find it 7 hrs. later--and their good luck because he and Patsy contaminated the body with their histrionics upstairs, contributing to their defense.

    However, I am reminded of what the brilliant FFJ poster, BobC, said many years ago, "People don't stage crime scenes in other people's houses." Some of us have not been hoodwinked. Hopefully, we'll all live long enough to see the truth come out.
    Tell it to TRICIA. We're falling out left and right around here. Tic toc, tic toc, Tricia....
    Last edited by koldkase; May 3, 2012, 2:46 pm at Thu May 3 14:46:16 UTC 2012.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  5. #29

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    I want to put Cynic's excellent graphic overlay here for reference: he put the pieces together (top photo) with which I had been working (bottom photo enlargements). I think it illustrates that it was easier to break the paintbrush than I had been able to envision before, at least this end of it.





    From the FFJ Library: http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...259#post189259

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I'm sure you know Haney asked Patsy about that very technique in her DA interview with him.
    Yes, it came up while discussing the large diameter rope found in JAR's room, and she certainly knew all about the technique.
    Also interesting is the fact that she was the one that brought it up.

    TOM HANEY: Next we have photos that are numbered 113.
    PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
    TOM HANEY: Which is a paper bag.
    PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
    TOM HANEY: And then 114 is the contents of that.
    TRIP DeMUTH: The paper bag is a police bag and this came out of here.
    PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, this was in here?
    TRIP DeMUTH: Correct?
    PATSY RAMSEY: Oh.
    TRIP DeMUTH: And there's another picture of that same item in 115 and 116. Why don't you look those over at your leisure.
    PATSY RAMSEY: I don't recognize it, specifically.
    TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
    TOM HANEY: Okay. And that, that particular piece of rope, do you ever remember seeing anything like it around? And if you look at photo 115, you notice the –
    PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    TOM HANEY: -- ends are unusually secured.
    PATSY RAMSEY: Right. No.
    TOM HANEY: Can you think of any reason to have that kind of rope around?
    PATSY RAMSEY: I've just never seen ends like that, done like that. John had some, you know, boat ropes and things up at the lake, but it seems like when they cut those, they kind of melt the ends of them or something to keep them from fraying or something. I've never seen one done like that.
    TOM HANEY: The kind of ropes you're talking about that John used up there –
    PATSY RAMSEY: For the sailboat or –
    TOM HANEY: Are they colored the same or similar?
    PATSY RAMSEY: Well, some of them have like little blue flecks in them or red, or there's some white ones, you know.
    TOM HANEY: Okay. Do you know what, what those are composed of? Is it a nylon that melts?
    PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, it must, something that melts, yeah. But it seems to me like they somehow torch the ends and kind of keep them from fraying.
    I can't remember seeing any one looking like that.


    But the cord ending in the photo hasn't been burned, has it?
    Are you referring to my photo? The right side was burned/melted, the left side was left frayed.
    Note that the melting technique does leave tell-tale signs. I’ve done it dozens of times and it always ends with a roasted/toasted marshmallow look, brown or black tinges.
    Last edited by cynic; May 4, 2012, 12:50 am at Fri May 4 0:50:44 UTC 2012.

  7. #31

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    Stansport may still be selling the cord. The “N-50” is a 3/16” flat braided nylon utility cord.
    http://www.stansport.com/v2/product.php?product_id=644


  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Yes; a small piece of birefringent material was found in the vaginal vault, consistent with the paintbrush from what has been written about it. Of course no one has ever stated that on a molecular level it is a match, so other sources have been speculated about--powder from rubber gloves, for one.
    On November 5, Detective Weinheimer arrived in St. Clair Shores, Michigan, to meet Dr. Werner Spitz, one of the world’s foremost forensic pathologists. Weinheimer took with him a stack of black-and-white photographs of the cellulose that coroner John Meyer had found in JonBenét’s vagina.

    Finally, the detectives turned to the microscopic splinter of cellulose found in JonBenet’s vagina, which looked like wood. The broken paintbrush that had been tied to the stick was splintered into shards. Logic suggested that a splinter of wood might have stuck to the perpetrator’s finger before he or she penetrated JonBenét vaginally. It could also have broken off the end of the paintbrush if the stick, rather than a finger, was used to penetrate her.
    Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller, pages 557, 559

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    On November 5, Detective Weinheimer arrived in St. Clair Shores, Michigan, to meet Dr. Werner Spitz, one of the world’s foremost forensic pathologists. Weinheimer took with him a stack of black-and-white photographs of the cellulose that coroner John Meyer had found in JonBenét’s vagina.

    Finally, the detectives turned to the microscopic splinter of cellulose found in JonBenet’s vagina, which looked like wood. The broken paintbrush that had been tied to the stick was splintered into shards. Logic suggested that a splinter of wood might have stuck to the perpetrator’s finger before he or she penetrated JonBenét vaginally. It could also have broken off the end of the paintbrush if the stick, rather than a finger, was used to penetrate her.
    Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller, pages 557, 559
    ...s...i...g...h...

    Thanks so much for that quote, but I have to admit after seeing Dr. Spitz testify in the Casey Anthony trial, he is no longer someone I find credible.

    Unfortunately, the (mentally challenged) jury in that case somehow missed his extreme incompetence.

    I guess it could be due to his advanced years now, but I find him neutralized as far as the weight of his "expert" opinion is concerned. I always look for another, or at least a corroborating, source.

    Having said that, I'm sure LE agencies and labs had more than Dr. Spitz to determine what the birefringent material source was. The paintbrush splinters next to the paint tray would be a huge clue, as well. Surely they were compared microscopically with that found in the vagina.

    I mean, how easy would that be for a lab? Of course they know.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    Yes, it came up while discussing the large diameter rope found in JAR's room, and she certainly knew all about the technique.
    Also interesting is the fact that she was the one that brought it up.

    TOM HANEY: Next we have photos that are numbered 113.
    PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
    TOM HANEY: Which is a paper bag.
    PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
    TOM HANEY: And then 114 is the contents of that.
    TRIP DeMUTH: The paper bag is a police bag and this came out of here.
    PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, this was in here?
    TRIP DeMUTH: Correct?
    PATSY RAMSEY: Oh.
    TRIP DeMUTH: And there's another picture of that same item in 115 and 116. Why don't you look those over at your leisure.
    PATSY RAMSEY: I don't recognize it, specifically.
    TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
    TOM HANEY: Okay. And that, that particular piece of rope, do you ever remember seeing anything like it around? And if you look at photo 115, you notice the –
    PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    TOM HANEY: -- ends are unusually secured.
    PATSY RAMSEY: Right. No.
    TOM HANEY: Can you think of any reason to have that kind of rope around?
    PATSY RAMSEY: I've just never seen ends like that, done like that. John had some, you know, boat ropes and things up at the lake, but it seems like when they cut those, they kind of melt the ends of them or something to keep them from fraying or something. I've never seen one done like that.
    TOM HANEY: The kind of ropes you're talking about that John used up there –
    PATSY RAMSEY: For the sailboat or –
    TOM HANEY: Are they colored the same or similar?
    PATSY RAMSEY: Well, some of them have like little blue flecks in them or red, or there's some white ones, you know.
    TOM HANEY: Okay. Do you know what, what those are composed of? Is it a nylon that melts?
    PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, it must, something that melts, yeah. But it seems to me like they somehow torch the ends and kind of keep them from fraying.
    I can't remember seeing any one looking like that.



    Are you referring to my photo? The right side was burned/melted, the left side was left frayed.

    Note that the melting technique does leave tell-tale signs. I’ve done it dozens of times and it always ends with a roasted/toasted marshmallow look, brown or black tinges.
    I was actually referring to the photo of the end of the cord on the "handle" which doesn't appear to have been "burned" at all. I noticed your burnt cord ending did have a tell-tale singed appearance.

    I guess my point was I don't think that cord end on the "handle" was burned, so I favor Cherokee's explanation of some kind of chemical treatment at the factory which secured that end from fraying and kept it pristine.

    I think it's a good comparison to the other, very frayed ends. I also think Dr. Meyer's cut on the neck ligature is a good comparison, as he certainly had very sharp utensils to cut it, though he had to delicately work his way under it as it was so tightly embedded into the skin of the neck.

    I now am pondering why someone would use a dull knife--especially if the kitchen knife was left on the washing machine from an initial attempt at cutting the cord.

    Why not get the scissors? I'd find it very hard to believe there were no scissors in the house, or that Patsy didn't know where she could get a pair.

    So either Patsy didn't cut the cord, or she had a reason not to retrieve scissors to do so.

    If she didn't cut the cord, who did, and why didn't he go for scissors? John surely would have known where they were, as well, or where he had something much sharper, wouldn't he?

    It was Burke's Swiss knife found in the basement, and the maid had that story about hiding his knife over the washing machine behind the large diapers, which were hanging out of the cabinet when LE photographed that area, if memory serves. So was it Burke who cut the cords?

    Burke was almost 10; wouldn't he have known where some scissors were? I'd imagine Patsy had children's scissors, as well. In her friend Linda McClean's book, one of the family/friends told a story of Patsy inviting school classmates and their parents over to work on the Fall Festival project, providing the paints, paper, scissors, etc. Is it conceivable that everyone in that house wouldn't have known where to find a pair of scissors?

    But why would an intruder bring in cord and forget to bring in something to cut it with? That would be stupid for someone so clever as to have eluded a globe-wide hunt for even a whiff of him all these years.

    So if it were Patsy's crisis, was she just too frantic to find the scissors? Was she and/or John thinking in such detail they came up with the idea of cutting the cord with a knife because that's what would be in a rape kit?

    Or did someone they called help work them through such detail to throw off LE?

    And why use that paintbrush at all? Because it was inserted into the child to cover the prior molestation and the fear was it would be identified somehow by blood on it, but connected to Patsy and not the intruder? So it was used as a "handle" to link it to the intruder?

    I've wondered many times if the "tip" was spirited away because it had blood on it, as well.

    But lord, what a diabolical mind that thought of such detail in the midst of destroying a child's life....

    Unless there's a much simpler reason and I can't think of it: like being afraid of being spotted while getting the scissors. By whom? Another member of the household? A neighbor? The neighbor said the usual inside light wasn't on, nor the outdoor spotlight on the garage corner?

    Oh dayum, it's just maddening. There had to be 10 kinds of crazy in the house that night.
    Last edited by koldkase; May 4, 2012, 7:04 pm at Fri May 4 19:04:03 UTC 2012.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
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  11. #35
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    Originally Posted by Elle_1

     
    I doubt Patsy Ramsey would have used anything but a perfect handle with her demeanor. everything had to be perfect, but she failed with the coverup. Everything was overdone! Wasn't there talk about the brush having been used on JonBenét. Too delicate to talk about here.

    From the autopsy report:
    Abrasion and vascular congestion of vaginal mucosa

    Koldkase:
    Yes; a small piece of birefringent material was found in the vaginal vault, consistent with the paintbrush from what has been written about it. Of course no one has ever stated that on a molecular level it is a match, so other sources have been speculated about--powder from rubber gloves, for one.
    Thank you for confirming this kk. Do you realize if RiverRat is reading this information, she may well have passed out.

    RR I remember you had a difficult time when this information was mentioned before. Hope you are okay! (?).
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    I want to add to my previous post about items used in the staging.

    What "intruder" relies on finding a broken paintbrush (in the basement of his victims's house) to finish her off? Even IF they brought the nylon cord, they were still missing a key ingredient of the staged strangulation.

    The Ramseys wouldn't claim ownership of the Maglite but said they had one just like it. (So where was THEIR Maglite if that Maglite wasn't it?) They wouldn't claim ownership of the pineapple because it wasn't their "setup." I'm sure if asked, Patsy would have said that wasn't HER broken paintbrush even though the other end was found in her paint tray.

    The Ramseys tried to distance themselves from everything found to stage the crime scene. Even though the cord staging was amateurish, they were smart to use all of it because that meant the rest of the cord wasn't found in the house. It could help create the idea of an intruder who thought to bring the cord with him. Unfortunately, the "intruder" forgot he also needed to bring a Maglite, fresh cut pineapple, a pre-written ransom note, a pair of the correct-size "Wednesday" girls underwear AND a stick to make the staged ligature!

    It's hard being a non-existent intruder; you don't have a brain in your fake head!
    I spent some time yesterday reading Patsy's DA interview transcript with Haney in '98 to add to your list of things she tried to "distance" from her family. It's a long list. Here are some more items:

    [The interview is here: http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...ad.php?t=9945]

    *Patsy tried to link her jacket to one belonging to Priscilla White which Patsy claimed was so similar to hers--what an amazing coincidence. Guess those pesky fibers tied into the ligature knot and stuck to the duct tape from Patsy's jacket had to come from someone else....

    23 PATSY RAMSEY: This is a picture of me and
    24 Fleet White at the White's house, in their
    25 living room.
    0540
    1 TOM HANEY: And when would that photo have
    2 been taken?
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably on the 21st.
    4 TOM HANEY: Okay.
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: Evening.
    6 TOM HANEY: And this is the sweater --
    7 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
    8 TOM HANEY: -- jacket?
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: Fleet's jacket I bought for
    10 her.
    11 TOM HANEY: And is that the same one that
    12 was turned over by Ellis Armistead to the
    13 police?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.

    15 TOM HANEY: Let me just turn to the next
    16 one and check it out.
    17 Can you identify that, was that taken
    18 at or about the same time --
    19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    20 TOM HANEY: -- and place?
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
    22 TOM HANEY: And that's the jacket that you
    23 were wearing that you identified earlier?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).

    [snip]
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: Looks like a little button
    16 there, I guess (inaudible) button (inaudible).
    17 The reason I'm looking so hard at this
    18 is because Priscilla had a jacket like this. I
    19 mean, until I saw this picture, I had thought
    20 that I had worn my Christmas sweater to their
    21 house, the little bobbly one. And then I saw
    22 this picture and I said oh, I must have worn
    23 that sweater to their house.
    24 But then I thought, well, maybe I had
    25 her jacket.
    I mean, you know, I don't know. I
    0545
    1 was just trying to figure out, this was
    2 certainly the one I sent, I sent mine out there,
    3 but I just want to make sure that...
    4 TRIP DeMUTH: That you were wearing yours
    5 on Christmas and not hers?
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I mean, I could have
    7 been in her house in the living room, you know,
    8 what I mean, and been cold and she said here put
    9 this on. I just can't remember. My point is
    10 that we both had jackets similar to that.

    11 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: So I don't know.
    13 TRIP DeMUTH: And did you buy them at the
    14 same time and place?
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I mean, I don't know I
    16 don't know when she got me that. I really don't
    17 remember. FYI, I mean.

    18 TRIP DeMUTH: So can you tell if that's
    19 your jacket you're wearing or --
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: This one, you mean?
    21 TRIP DeMUTH: Were they the exact same?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: They were pretty close, but
    23 I can't, I can't really remember.

    24 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: Why I would have hers on.
    0546
    1 All I'm saying is mine -- first time somebody
    2 asked me what I had on that day, I think I might
    3 have said I had my Christmas sweater on which is
    4 the bobbly --
    5 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: -- little beaded one. And
    7 then when I saw this picture, somebody showed me
    8 this picture --
    9 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: -- because they wanted the
    11 clothing, I said oh, I must have worn that one,
    12 so I got that one instead. I think I sent both
    13 of them, actually.
    14 TRIP DeMUTH: You sent both of them?
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: The bobbly beaded one or
    16 whatever. I think actually I -- I know I wore
    17 that one on the 23rd. Can I see that one?
    18 TRIP DeMUTH: Oh, sure. So the one you
    19 sent us, was that hers, or yours?
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it was mine.
    21 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. So where did you get
    22 it from? I mean, was it down in Atlanta or
    23 wherever?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible.)
    25 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. So this, just to make
    0547
    1 clear this 13-64 and 63 is yours?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    *Patsy didn't know if the kitchen knife found on the dryer (I've been saying it was on the washing machine, but in re-reading, it was on the dryer.) Clearly the Ramseys kept their kitchen knives under lock and key as Patsy knew the children couldn't possibly have gotten this from a drawer and left it on the dryer

    1 TRIP DEMUTH: Fifty-seven and 58.
    2 TOM HANEY: Why don't you tell us what that
    3 is.
    [snip]
    [Patsy:]
    15 A kitchen knife.
    16 TOM HANEY: What would that be doing there?
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
    18 TOM HANEY: It does look like a kitchen
    19 knife.
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh. I don't know what it
    21 is doing there.
    22 TOM HANEY: Do you recall yourself having
    23 anything to do with that knife being there?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: No. Is it on something? Is
    25 that --
    0334
    1 TOM HANEY: I think that is just a shadow,
    2 but a reflection off the --
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: There. There is a tiny
    4 yellowish color there. Can you see that?
    5 I'm not sure if that is one of my kitchen
    6 knives, to tell you the truth. That must be something.

    7 TOM HANEY: We would have that.
    8 PATSY RAMSEY: I could see that. In the
    9 picture it looks like it is a very thin blade, like a
    10 grapefruit knife or something.
    11 TOM HANEY: What about the handle?
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: I had some wooden handle
    13 knives, but I don't know why I would have it there in
    14 the kitchen, you know. I don't know why it is there.
    15 TOM HANEY: Could one of the children brought
    16 that?
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: No. No. No.

    18 TOM HANEY: In the previous interview on
    19 the -- last April, there was some discussion about
    20 Burke having a Swiss Army knife, I think at that time,
    21 correct me if I am wrong. You said it had his name or
    22 initials on it?
    23 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    24 TOM HANEY: Would he have had any other
    25 knives or would there have been any other Swiss Army
    0335
    1 type of knives in the house? Did John have any?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I don't
    3 remember.
    4 TOM HANEY: Would Burke have had more than
    5 one, more than just one with his name on it?
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: It seems like we might have
    7 had a little tiny one like a key chain or something,
    8 but it might have been -- I just remember the red one
    9 with his name on it that I got him in Switzerland.
    10 TRIP DEMUTH: Patsy, I read somewhere that
    11 Burke would walk through the house whittling sometimes,
    12 whittle in the house; is that true?
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: I never saw him walk through
    14 the house whittling. Now I did, on occasion, in the
    15 play room see little whittling like wood, kind of
    16 whittles, you know.
    17 TRIP DEMUTH: You did ever see him whittle?
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: No, No, I didn't.
    19 TRIP DEMUTH: Is there any reason why Burke
    20 would have a knife like this.
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: No. Huh-uh.
    *Duct tape? What duct tape? No, no gooey tape for Patsy....

    11 TOM HANEY: Do you recall purchasing duct
    12 tape and cord (inaudible) in the early part of December
    13 of '96?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I never used this type of
    15 stuff. I use -- I would buy the multiple rolls of the
    16 clear.
    17 TOM HANEY: Clear tape?
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: Clear tape.
    19 TOM HANEY: You don't recall making a
    20 purchase of either or both of those things, like I
    21 said, back in early December, December 2nd of '96?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    23 TOM HANEY: Do you ever recall purchasing
    24 black duct tape?
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    0398
    1 TOM HANEY: Ever have it around the house?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't remember seeing any.
    3 I have my tape in the little drawer by the
    4 refrigerator, but it was usually masking tape and the
    5 clear tape for the UPS box.
    6 TOM HANEY: It seems like you -- there can't
    7 be a house in the world that doesn't have duct tape
    8 because it repairs everything.
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I never liked it because
    10 it is so gooey. Isn't it gooey?
    11 TOM HANEY: Yeah.
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: Most of the stuff I would take
    13 would be stuff for, you know, stuff for the kids. It
    14 would be clear. That is what I got.
    (Inaudible).
    [Gosh, that's not duct tape in that drawer, is it?]

    12 TOM HANEY: 381.
    13 TRIP DEMUTH: Take this out.
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: Junk drawer. (Inaudible).
    15 Golf ball it looks like to me. Tape. (Inaudible),
    16 maybe. Junk.
    17 TOM HANEY: Another --
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: Pen in the junk drawer. Can't
    19 tell where it is, either in the kitchen or in the bar
    20 area.
    21 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you know who that tape would
    22 belong to?
    23 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't. (Inaudible).
    24 John would know better than me. I never used it. I
    25 always used the clear stuff.

    *That cord? Pfft! NEVAH seen it, NO NO NO. Don't even have to think about all the cords, bindings, and ropes all over the house, basement, etc., used for craft projects, trim on clothing, sports, general play, AND BY UPS AND THE POST OFFICE. Because UPS doesn't use that cord ANYMORE and the POST OFFICE uses TWINE, so...what?! Clearly one glance was needed to tell her NOT THEIR CORD, Mr. Haney, let's change the subject!


    15 TOM HANEY: Okay. How about this cord, that
    16 is nylon utility cord?
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    18 TOM HANEY: You don't recall purchasing
    19 anything like that anywhere else?
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    21 TOM HANEY: Do you remember seeing any around
    22 the house or attached to anything? Could you have
    23 gotten a package tied with such cord?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I usually get UPS and
    25 they don't use that anymore. I mean, the post office
    0399
    1 used it, the twine.

    2 TOM HANEY: Not familiar.
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: Huh-uh.
    *The maid moved the paint tray, not Patsy, who had no idea where it was.... It was all the maid's doing--of course.

    24 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. Sixty-nine.
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: Down to the butler kitchen
    0343
    1 area, the coat rack that I had set up for the party. A
    2 tray, yeah. I don't know. Here is the door in there.

    [snip]

    13 TRIP DEMUTH: I want to ask a question before
    14 we go off the butler area, as long as you are looking
    15 at 69 there.
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    17 TRIP DEMUTH: You used to have your painting
    18 materials in the butler kitchen; right?
    19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    20 TRIP DEMUTH: Where were they?
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: Right here. Right in this
    22 area.
    23 TRIP DEMUTH: Just in the central area or was
    24 it off to the side?
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, this wasn't a real big
    0344
    1 space. So it had the easel kind of set up right there
    2 and the sink was there to wash, and the (inaudible)
    3 area.
    4 TRIP DEMUTH: You had a paint tree also, a
    5 tray, or I don't know what you call --
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: It was like a little utility
    7 carrier with paint in it and stuff.
    8 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you remember when you moved
    9 those items?
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. Linda did. I asked
    11 her to take them to the bedroom.
    12 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. And do you remember when
    13 she did that?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, she did it prior to the
    15 party on the 23rd because we wanted to hang coats here.
    16 I don't know exactly the day she did it, but --
    17 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you know where she moved
    18 them to?
    19 PATSY RAMSEY: Down here in the basement, I
    20 think, you know, kind of like sort of in this area.

    21 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.

    [snip]

    4 TOM HANEY: Photograph, I think is 178, that
    5 is that tray of paint brushes that we talked about
    6 earlier.
    7 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    8 TOM HANEY: Is that where it is located?
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, like I said, Linda took
    10 all of the paint stuff out of the butler kitchen there
    11 when she took it to the basement. And to tell you the
    12 truth, I never really paid too much attention where she
    13 put it.

    14 TOM HANEY: Okay. I can't tell.
    15 TRIP DEMUTH: Here is the wine cellar.
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, okay. It could have been.
    17 I don't know.
    18 TOM HANEY: Do you recognize what that is
    19 behind it there?
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. That is a painting I
    21 did.
    22 TOM HANEY: Okay. Pretty much the painting
    23 supplies, the materials were together.
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Right, all together.
    *Old, broken paint brush? Oh no, all her paintbrushes were NEW.

    22 TOM HANEY: Well, there is a -- I think maybe
    23 a quick little look at the tray with some brushes in it
    24 in a minute. In that tray of brushes what would you
    25 have had in there?
    0345
    1 PATSY RAMSEY: Paint and brushes and
    2 probably -- I don't know. I don't know exactly what
    3 was in there. Supplies, you know, paint supplies.
    4 TOM HANEY: What kind of painting were you
    5 doing? What kind of paint would you have had in there?
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, oil or acrylic. I
    7 signed up for a class where you could use both, and I
    8 started out using oil and it got over my car, so I
    9 switched to acrylic, but there was a mishmash in there.
    10 TOM HANEY: Okay. Out of the brushes you
    11 would have had in there, would you have had any that
    12 were broken or damaged or would you --
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: No, they were all pretty new.
    14 TOM HANEY: Okay. So any broken or damaged
    15 ones?
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: Throw it away.
    17 TOM HANEY: So --
    18 TRIP DEMUTH: Take a minute, Patsy, and think
    19 about the paint tree [tray]. Were there any broken paint
    20 brushes that you recall?
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: No, not that I recall. They
    22 were all pretty new when -- they had a list of things
    23 to buy for the class.
    24 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.
    25 TOM HANEY: Did you follow their advice?
    0346
    1 Sometimes, you know, you get the list from school and
    2 you think do you need all of this.
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, pretty close, yeah.

    4 TOM HANEY: What is available. Do you recall
    5 where you would have made the purchase before this?
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Art Hardware in Boulder.
    7 TOM HANEY: Is that on Broadway?
    8 PATSY RAMSEY: On Broadway.
    Green paint from a tube in the paint tray matched green paint from this paintbrush:
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by koldkase; May 6, 2012, 4:23 pm at Sun May 6 16:23:41 UTC 2012.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.



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