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  1. #1

    Default I have questions....

    Thought I'd just put up a thread since I'm looking at the LE interviews of the Ramseys and so many questions come up that have never been answered.

    This has been brought up before, but no answers, since Haney and DeMuth didn't bother to follow up on this obvious "mistake" Patsy made when recounting the morning she and John "discovered" the kidnapping (and by follow up I mean no arrest was made):

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...ead.php?t=9945

    25 PATSY RAMSEY: It just happened so
    0040
    1 fast, and I, you know, read that letter and said
    2 "we have your daughter", your mind goes berserk.
    3 I mean I was -- and then I went up there and my
    4 child is not in the bed. You know, I didn't,
    5 nothing against your questioning, but no, I
    6 didn't stand around and say I wonder if she is
    7 in here, I wonder if she is in there. I
    8 screamed for John.
    9 TOM HANEY: Okay, and that's why
    10 you were standing here?
    11 PATSY RAMSEY: I am going this way
    12 and I lean on and said John -- you know, the
    13 landing is like here, is like this, then it
    14 turns and like that. And I leaned over, I mean
    15 my knees were like, you know, buckling. And oh,
    16 God, and he came down and I said, "she's gone,
    17 she's gone, there is a note, she's been
    18 kidnapped."
    19 TOM HANEY: So you're here at the
    20 base of the stairs?
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
    22 TOM HANEY: You scream for John?
    23 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding with no
    24 audible response).
    25 TOM HANEY: Do you remember exactly
    0041
    1 what words you used, was it more than just John
    2 or--
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: I remember my voice
    4 was just cracking. I mean it was like "John",
    5 like that. I mean like, I can't even, you know,
    6 I hear my scream and I hear his scream when he
    7 came up from the basement,
    I mean it was just a
    8 horrible thing. You know, it was just --
    I don't remember any other account of that morning where either Patsy or John mentions he went into the basement looking for JonBenet before the 911 call. Maybe I have just forgotten; does anyone else remember? Or did Patsy have a "slip" of the tongue? Patsy is describing screaming for John, WHO WAS UPSTAIRS IN THEIR SUITE; but then suddenly John is coming UP from the basement, SCREAMING.

    In fact, if you read this whole passage/line of questioning in the '98 interview, Patsy and John were running around screaming like chickens with their heads cut off. Amazingly, Burke was awake in his bed, never thinking to come out and see what all the screaming was about, not even bothering to ask his parents when they "checked on him" as he lay in his bed pretending to be asleep....

    Haney has some interesting observations and questions about Patsy's 911 call:

    19 TOM HANEY: One number? Okay.
    20 Now, I have to stop you here because at my house
    21 if there is an emergency, if there is a problem
    22 and my wife is screaming and yelling and
    23 panicked, I wouldn't have her call anybody.
    24 Because they would never figure out what she is
    25 saying. And it sounds like you're in kind of an
    0053
    1 emotional state, and John, he is the CEO, he is
    2 cool, he is calm, he is down there, he is
    3 processing this note and he tells you to call
    4 911?
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
    6 TOM HANEY: It just seems kind of
    7 odd to me. What --
    8 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know whether
    9 it's odd or not, but that's what happened.

    10 TOM HANEY: Okay.
    11 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean, you know, I
    12 had it together enough to call. And I said,
    13 this is Patsy Ramsey at 755 15th Street or
    14 whatever. She I think she was trying to make
    15 sure I got it out, you know.
    16 TOM HANEY: In fact, you got it out
    17 pretty good, you got the address which a lot of
    18 callers who call the police, who call 911 --
    19 PATSY RAMSEY: -- can't remember
    20 their names.
    21 TOM HANEY: Well, they don't give
    22 the address. You seemed to give the address
    23 pretty quick. When you called did you practice
    24 this, did you rehearse, did you think about what
    25 you were going to say?
    0054
    1 PATSY RAMSEY: No, no, just
    2 instantaneously, you know.

    3 TOM HANEY: Okay, and it just came
    4 out like that. So John is down there reading it
    5 and you call 911. You have this conversation
    6 with them. What happens at the end of that?
    7 PATSY RAMSEY: When I hung up, they
    8 said they would send somebody out, and I don't
    9 know, I think John went to get dressed. I was
    10 you know, was just pacing around here praying.
    So the detectives had heard that call many times, no doubt, and now Haney reveals they wondered if Patsy practiced her 911 call before she made it: "WE have a kidnapping...I'm THE mother...."
    Last edited by koldkase; May 19, 2012, 3:51 pm at Sat May 19 15:51:08 UTC 2012.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  2. #2

    Default

    Here's another statement Patsy made in the '98 interview that has been brought up many times, because Patsy used the word "flashback" when describing hearing JonBenet scream. A flashback is when you RELIVE something through remembering it.

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...ead.php?t=9945

    12 TOM HANEY: Okay. Do your symptoms include
    13 anything like nightmares?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: I had those.
    15 TOM HANEY: About?
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh, I have flashbacks of
    17 seeing my daughter lying down on the floor in our
    18 living room, and I have flashbacks of hearing JonBenet
    19 scream.
    I have nightmares where I am, you know,
    20 searching, searching, searching trying to find
    21 somebody, and trying to find who did this.
    22 TOM HANEY: Is there something that brings
    23 these on?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: No, not necessarily.
    25 TOM HANEY: Like. They could come to you any
    0330
    1 time?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, you know, if I have been
    3 doing like what we are doing, concentrating on this,
    4 like right now it has been kind of blue.
    5 TOM HANEY: Sure. Does looking at the
    6 photos, does that bring it back?
    7 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
    8 TOM HANEY: More than say our discussion
    9 yesterday?
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
    11 TOM HANEY: Okay. And even say the trip to
    12 Boulder?
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh.
    14 TOM HANEY: Things like reading the autopsy,
    15 that --
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I didn't really -- I
    17 know she was struck on the head and that there was
    18 something tied around the neck I know. I never really
    19 had read anything, all the details.
    20 TOM HANEY: Okay. Do you have -- since then
    21 you have?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, not read all of them,
    23 the medical things, it is kind of hard to read, but,
    24 you know, it is difficult.
    Patsy clearly knew what a "flashback" was, because she first describes her "flashback" of seeing JonBenet's body on the living room floor--and she did see that.

    So when did she hear JonBenet scream that night?

    Was this the same scream the neighbor heard?

    Why didn't Burke or John hear that? Or did they?

    It's so hard to follow Patsy's convoluted, inconsistent, ever-changing stories.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Thought I'd just put up a thread since I'm looking at the LE interviews of the Ramseys and so many questions come up that have never been answered.

    This has been brought up before, but no answers, since Haney and DeMuth didn't bother to follow up on this obvious "mistake" Patsy made when recounting the morning she and John "discovered" the kidnapping:

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...ead.php?t=9945



    I don't remember any other account of that morning where either Patsy or John mentions he went into the basement looking for JonBenet before the 911 call. Maybe I have just forgotten; does anyone else remember? Or did Patsy have a "slip" of the tongue? Patsy is describing screaming for John, WHO WAS UPSTAIRS IN THEIR SUITE; but then suddenly John is coming UP from the basement, SCREAMING.
    You should find these to be of interest:

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15661

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15778

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...t=41292&page=2

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...?t=7469&page=2

  4. #4

    Default

    Very much related to John discovering the body early...
    JR: So when I first found her I was like "Thank God, I found her." I didn't want Patsy to see her that way, and I ran upstairs and got a blanket off one of the chairs.
    LS: Upstairs?
    JR: Probably up in the tv room. I just ran up these stairs and went back down and put the blanket over her.

  5. #5

    Default

    Speaking of ever-changing stories, let's look at Patsy's account of reading the autopsy report. Notice where Patsy says she read parts of the report--but then confusingly falters in her language. Notice her sentence structure is hard to follow--a clear sign when Patsy is fudging the truth, lying, or trying to mislead the detectives, IMO. She frequently avoided committing to specific answers all through her LE interviews, usually when it was really important:

    [I'll be pulling some of this off a thread where we were discussing some of this transcript yesterday.]

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...ead.php?t=9945

    Patsy first says she "knows" there was a red heart on the "hand or forehead"--obviously she didn't see it if she couldn't say which one, right? But later that day she told Haney and DeMuth she saw the heart drawn on JB's hand the morning of her death, calling it "well drawn":

    19 JUNE 23, 1998

    [snip]

    11 THOMAS HANEY: On the 25th,
    12 Christmas, when you put JonBenet to bed, did she
    13 have any marks on her?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I noticed.
    15 THOMAS HANEY: Any scratches, cuts,
    16 bruises?
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I noticed.
    18 THOMAS HANEY: How about, did she
    19 have any marks from markers or anything like
    20 that?
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't notice
    22 anything that night when she went to bed. And,
    23 you know, I know there was a red heart on her
    24 hand or her forehead. I don't know when that --
    25 I mean, you know, I didn't -- I didn't inspect
    0195
    1 her when I put her to bed.
    Two pages later in the transcript, she changes her story:

    19 TRIP DeMUTH: How was she about
    20 washing her hands?
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: Just typical kid,
    22 you know, if she can get by with it, she
    23 wouldn't do it. You know, but I was pretty much
    24 always (INAUDIBLE). (Gesturing.)
    25 TRIP DeMUTH: Had you referred to
    0197
    1 that at all Christmas Day?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I
    3 don't remember exactly, but I may have.
    4 TRIP DeMUTH: How do you know there
    5 was a heart on her hand?
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Because it was on
    7 there in the morning, that's why.
    8 TRIP DeMUTH: And you remember it
    9 from the next morning?
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
    11 TRIP DeMUTH: You saw it the next
    12 morning?
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
    14 TRIP DeMUTH: When you say the next
    15 morning, did you remember it from the previous
    16 evening?
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: (Shaking head.) (No
    18 response.)

    19 TRIP DeMUTH: Did she -- I mean did
    20 it get there, was that something she would do
    21 or --
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, she and
    23 Daphne, you know, a lot of times drew on
    24 themselves.
    25 TRIP DeMUTH: Did you ever see a
    0198
    1 heart on her hand before?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: Not specifically a
    3 heart.
    4 TRIP DeMUTH: What might you have
    5 seen before?
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Just markings, you
    7 know, just erratic marks maybe, she had been
    8 coloring, pen or ink marks, or like fingers from
    9 markers or something.
    10 TRIP DeMUTH: Did you ever draw
    11 anything on the palm of her hands?
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: (Shaking head.)
    13 TRIP DeMUTH: Was there ever an
    14 occasion when you would draw a smiley face on
    15 the palm of her hand or on her hand somewhere?
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: As a matter of fact,
    17 I discouraged her doing that because we always
    18 did what we called the pageant scrub the night
    19 before we have a pageant. We would wash her
    20 hair real good, and scrub her fingernails, and,
    21 you know, and oftentimes she would have, you
    22 know, marker all over herself or something, on
    23 her leg or something. Say, honey, now don't do
    24 that, wipe it off. We had to use nail polish
    25 remover, sort of try to dilute it and get it
    0199
    1 off. So I kind of discouraged that as much as
    2 possible.
    3 TRIP DeMUTH: There was something
    4 regarding that you would draw a smiley face when
    5 she was feeling down to perk her up. What would
    6 your reaction be to that?
    7 PATSY RAMSEY: That I would do it?
    8 TRIP DeMUTH: Yes.
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't remember
    10 doing that.
    11 TRIP DeMUTH: Did anybody have a
    12 particular liking or habit of drawing hearts?
    13 Did JonBenet draw hearts routinely?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
    15 Typically children do a lot of different things.
    16 TRIP DeMUTH: Some little kids have
    17 this --
    18 (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS.)
    19 THOMAS HANEY: Line dine job --
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: She drew suns and
    21 things and birds and things like that.
    22 TRIP DeMUTH: What was your
    23 reaction when you saw that heart on her hand?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I just thought
    25 Daphne must have done it or something, you know,
    0200
    1 they were playing the night before.
    You know --
    2 you know, my mind ran things out. But Santa
    3 Claus made a point the night that he was at our
    4 house at the party and was, you know, reading
    5 this dialogue that I had written up, and then he
    6 told this story about, you know, how Christmas
    7 should be Christmas all the time, all year long,
    8 and he said, "and where is Christmas when it's
    9 not really Christmas," something like that. He
    10 said particularly JonBenet, and he pointed to
    11 JonBenet. And she said in her heart. Pointing.
    12 So I mean, you know, I just turned
    13 around. I am trying to figure and figure and
    14 put things together, but, you know, that -- I am
    15 sure you all have too, but --
    16 TRIP DeMUTH: You knew her best.
    17 That's why we need to ask about her habits.
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: That was a pretty
    19 good little heart, you know, I mean -- pretty
    20 well drawn.

    21 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
    22 THOMAS HANEY: I see we are at -- a
    23 little after 4.
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Anything on the
    25 picture or something, you know.
    0201

    Then they finished for the day. Patsy left and came back the next morning with another version of this story (after meeting with the legal team the night before, she also revealed):

    19 JUNE 24, 1998

    1 THOMAS HANEY: Today is Wednesday,
    2 June 24, 1998 and the time is approximately
    3 9:03 a.m. Again we are present in the
    4 Broomfield Police Department. Present is
    5 Patricia Ramsey (INAUDIBLE) and how did you
    6 spend yesterday, how did you feel?
    7 PATSY RAMSEY: Fine, great. I
    8 think, a couple of things that I thought about,
    9 that I wanted to clarify maybe. You were asking
    10 about -- particularly about the pictures of
    11 JonBenet in the basement, and I remember that I
    12 had taken some Xerox copies of her portfolio
    13 pictures, you know, studio head shots. And
    14 there was a paper cutter down there, and that I
    15 used, and that --
    16 TRIP DeMUTH: That could be it?
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: That could be it.
    18 TRIP DeMUTH: I haven't seen the
    19 pictures.
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay, I wasn't clear
    21 whether you were talking about picture of her in
    22 the laundry room, or pictures of her located in
    23 the laundry room. And I think that I read
    24 somewhere talking about the heart on her hand.
    25 And truthfully, I can't -- I am having trouble
    0207
    1 distinguishing whether I have read about that or
    2 whether I actually saw that. I just recently
    3 read parts of the autopsy report, and I believe
    4 that was on there. And I just, you know, now I
    5 have a picture of a heart on her hand and I
    6 can't remember whether I actually saw it or --
    7 TRIP DeMUTH: Let me ask you this.
    8 Do you remember what color it was? Is there a
    9 color that you recall?
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I just see a red
    11 heart in my mind.
    12 TRIP DeMUTH: But you don't know if
    13 you read it?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just to be
    15 perfectly fair, to say that I saw it on her.

    16 And what else.
    17 Oh, I was trying to think about
    18 Jacques, and I tried to figure out how much time
    19 he was at our house and their house and all
    20 that. And you know, we talked about 50-50,
    21 60-40, you really don't -- I can't say who was
    22 there a lot. You might ask the Barnhills, they
    23 might know, you know, a little better.
    24 THOMAS HANEY: But there was no set
    25 schedule?
    0208
    1 PATSY RAMSEY: No, like Tuesday
    2 Wednesday, Thursday or something, no.
    Finally Haney did try to pin her story down because she was clearly tap dancing to cover up her earlier statement.

    19 JUNE 24 (Continuing) & JUNE 25, 1998

    1 TOM HANEY: Okay. I have approximately
    2 1:05 and we are back on tape, same folks that were here
    3 earlier.
    4 Before we get back to the photos, as we go
    5 back a little bit, which you brought up this morning,
    6 Mrs. Ramsey, about the heart on the hand, I want to
    7 make sure that I have got this straight. You said that
    8 on the night of the 25th when you put JonBenet down,
    9 you didn't recall seeing any drawings or markings, any
    10 heart or anything like that.
    11 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    12 TOM HANEY: Okay. And then, in your words,
    13 would you tell me when it is or how it is that you
    14 recall something about something on her hand?
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I recently read the
    16 autopsy report, part of it, and the heart drawing on
    17 her hand. I really don't know which hand, I don't
    18 know. I don't know which hand. And I heard some talk
    19 about the heart on her hand. But I can't be sure that
    20 I actually saw the heart on her hand after we
    21 discovered her body. But I have a visual image of the
    22 heart on her hand, but I may be drawing that from
    23 things I have heard or read. Can't really remember
    24 physically seeing the heart on her hand.
    25 TOM HANEY: Okay. So no independent
    0329
    1 recollection of --
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    3 TOM HANEY: -- that?
    4 PATSY RAMSEY: Huh-uh.

    5 TOM HANEY: Okay. One other thing, this
    6 morning you mentioned that the doctors, Dr. Brown in
    7 Atlanta, had diagnosed this post traumatic stress
    8 disorder, and I wondered what the symptoms, what
    9 symptoms you experience as a result of that.
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, just very sad and
    11 very -- crying a lot, fatigue easily.
    12 TOM HANEY: Okay. Do your symptoms include
    13 anything like nightmares?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: I had those.
    15 TOM HANEY: About?
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh, I have flashbacks of
    17 seeing my daughter lying down on the floor in our
    18 living room, and I have flashbacks of hearing JonBenet
    19 scream. I have nightmares where I am, you know,
    20 searching, searching, searching trying to find
    21 somebody, and trying to find who did this.
    22 TOM HANEY: Is there something that brings
    23 these on?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: No, not necessarily.
    25 TOM HANEY: Like. They could come to you any
    0330
    1 time?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, you know, if I have been
    3 doing like what we are doing, concentrating on this,
    4 like right now it has been kind of blue.
    5 TOM HANEY: Sure. Does looking at the
    6 photos, does that bring it back?
    7 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
    8 TOM HANEY: More than say our discussion
    9 yesterday?
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
    11 TOM HANEY: Okay. And even say the trip to
    12 Boulder?
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh.
    14 TOM HANEY: Things like reading the autopsy,
    15 that --
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I didn't really -- I
    17 know she was struck on the head and that there was
    18 something tied around the neck I know. I never really
    19 had read anything, all the details.
    20 TOM HANEY: Okay. Do you have -- since then
    21 you have?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, not read all of them,
    23 the medical things, it is kind of hard to read, but,
    24 you know, it is difficult.

    25 TOM HANEY: Okay. Let's get back, is there
    0331
    1 anything else, get back to the photos, let's see.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  6. #6

    Default

    Now I'm going to back track, because it helps me to clarify since the Ramseys' own words are very confusing. Here's what got me started on Patsy changing her story about the heart on the hand: John and Patsy's differing accounts of the autopsy report.

    On the same day Patsy back-tracked to "explain" her memory of the heart on the hand because she "might" have read about it in the autopsy report--or heard others talking about it, take your pick of excuses--she was evasive about even reading the autopsy report. She then said at one point she only read parts but she knew there was "something" on the neck and a head injury. But in another interview with Smit and Kane, John was telling a very different story: John says they never received the autopsy report.

    John's interview on Day Two out of Three in '98:

    19 JUNE 24, 1998

    [snip]

    24 MIKE KANE: Do you have anything about the
    25 note?
    0362
    1 LOU SMIT: No.
    2 MIKE KANE: The autopsy report, have you
    3 seen it?
    4 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
    5 MIKE KANE: You haven't seen it?
    6 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I have not. I can't look at
    7 that.
    8 MIKE KANE: Okay. Have you discussed in general
    9 what's in there, in general?
    10 JOHN RAMSEY: Very little. It's hard to discuss
    11 with her accidentally (INAUDIBLE).
    12 MIKE KANE: What would that be?
    13 JOHN RAMSEY: That there was her skull
    14 fracture; that there were abrasions in her pubic
    15 area; two of her organs were swollen which
    16 indicated a slow death.

    17 MIKE KANE: Did you do your own investigation
    18 into this? Did you have any experts look into
    19 those -- like you said there were bruises in the
    20 pubic area?
    21 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know if we did.
    22 MIKE KANE: I mean here, now?
    23 JOHN RAMSEY: I know. No, not to my knowledge.
    24 MIKE KANE: I'll bring another aspect about
    25 the (INAUDIBLE) fragments.
    0363
    1 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I think we've had
    2 pathologists look into the report, but I don't
    3 know where or what they said.
    4 MIKE KANE: You never received the report
    5 then?
    6 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
    7 MIKE KANE: (INAUDIBLE)
    8 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
    9 MIKE KANE: How about Mrs. Ramsey?
    10 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
    So which is it? Did Patsy get the report and read it, but never mentioned it to John? That would be very strange indeed.

    John obviously knew something about the injuries to the child that day, even using the word "accidentally" in what appears to be a referecne to the skull fracture, though it's a gray area because his words were "inaudible" to the transcriptionist. Was he informed of these injuries by his lawyers but hadn't seen the report? If he's telling the truth, was Patsy lying to mitigate her statement the first day that she'd seen it that morning?

    JonBenet wasn't found until well into the afternoon. Patsy slid into her "clarification" the next day she couldn't remember if she'd seen the heart AFTER THEY FOUND JONBENET'S BODY. But that wasn't in the morning, as she first said. I find it every telling that she deftly hit key points of her disclaimers without missing a beat. She knew exactly what she was doing, IMO.

    Patsy's interview at the end of Day One of Three days of interviews in '98:

    4 TRIP DeMUTH: How do you know there
    5 was a heart on her hand?
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Because it was on
    7 there in the morning,
    that's why.
    8 TRIP DeMUTH: And you remember it
    9 from the next morning?
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
    11 TRIP DeMUTH: You saw it the next
    12 morning?

    13 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
    14 TRIP DeMUTH: When you say the next
    15 morning,
    did you remember it from the previous
    16 evening?
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: (Shaking head.) (No
    18 response.)
    At the beginning of Day Two:

    20 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay, I wasn't clear
    21 whether you were talking about picture of her in
    22 the laundry room, or pictures of her located in
    23 the laundry room. And I think that I read
    24 somewhere talking about the heart on her hand.
    25 And truthfully, I can't -- I am having trouble
    0207
    1 distinguishing whether I have read about that or
    2 whether I actually saw that. I just recently
    3 read parts of the autopsy report, and I believe
    4 that was on there. And I just, you know, now I
    5 have a picture of a heart on her hand and I
    6 can't remember whether I actually saw it or --
    7 TRIP DeMUTH: Let me ask you this.
    8 Do you remember what color it was? Is there a
    9 color that you recall?
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I just see a red
    11 heart in my mind.
    12 TRIP DeMUTH: But you don't know if
    13 you read it?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just to be
    15 perfectly fair, to say that I saw it on her.
    In the afternoon of Day Two:

    4 [Haney] Before we get back to the photos, as we go
    5 back a little bit, which you brought up this morning,
    6 Mrs. Ramsey, about the heart on the hand, I want to
    7 make sure that I have got this straight. You said that
    8 on the night of the 25th when you put JonBenet down,
    9 you didn't recall seeing any drawings or markings, any
    10 heart or anything like that.
    11 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    12 TOM HANEY: Okay. And then, in your words,
    13 would you tell me when it is or how it is that you
    14 recall something about something on her hand?
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I recently read the
    16 autopsy report, part of it, and the heart drawing on
    17 her hand. I really don't know which hand, I don't
    18 know. I don't know which hand. And I heard some talk
    19 about the heart on her hand. But I can't be sure that
    20 I actually saw the heart on her hand after we
    21 discovered her body. But I have a visual image of the
    22 heart on her hand, but I may be drawing that from
    23 things I have heard or read. Can't really remember
    24 physically seeing the heart on her hand.

    25 TOM HANEY: Okay. So no independent
    0329
    1 recollection of --
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    3 TOM HANEY: -- that?
    4 PATSY RAMSEY: Huh-uh.
    We've heard gossip that LE use Patsy's and John's interviews as training for detecting when the witness/suspect is lying. I don't know if that's true, but I can certainly believe it, because to my untrained eye, something is not adding up in their stories.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  7. #7

    Default


    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    Very much related to John discovering the body early...
    JR: So when I first found her I was like "Thank God, I found her." I didn't want Patsy to see her that way, and I ran upstairs and got a blanket off one of the chairs.
    LS: Upstairs?
    JR: Probably up in the tv room. I just ran up these stairs and went back down and put the blanket over her.
    I haven't yet checked out the WS threads, but your quote here--I thought John was talking about when he put the child down in the living room AFTER "finding" the body. No?

    My reference to John screaming as he came up from the basement was Patsy recounting when they found the ransom note, BEFORE they even called 911. Am I confused--and how could I not be--or are you referring to a different issue altogether?

    3 PATSY RAMSEY: I remember my voice
    4 was just cracking. I mean it was like "John",
    5 like that. I mean like, I can't even, you know,
    6 I hear my scream and I hear his scream when he
    7 came up from the basement,
    I mean it was just a
    8 horrible thing. You know, it was just --
    I'll check out those links you posted. Thanks.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I haven't yet checked out the WS threads, but your quote here--I thought John was talking about when he put the child down in the living room AFTER "finding" the body. No?
    What the Ramseys refer to as the "TV room" is on the 1st floor.
    Therefore, if he ran upstairs to the first floor that places him in the basement.
    When she was "found" in the afternoon she, of course, was already wrapped in a blanket, papoose style.

    Patsy Ramsey: "Yes, I did then see her. My friends were -- I was in the TV room and they were -- I said what is it? What is it? And they kept, you know, holding me, wait, I don't know what it is. One of our friends ran into the room and said, we need an ambulance, tried to dial 911, and I kept screaming, what is it? What is it? And, you know, then in just a couple of minutes, then I walked into the living room."

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    What the Ramseys refer to as the "TV room" is on the 1st floor.
    Therefore, if he ran upstairs to the first floor that places him in the basement.
    When she was "found" in the afternoon she, of course, was already wrapped in a blanket, papoose style.

    Patsy Ramsey: "Yes, I did then see her. My friends were -- I was in the TV room and they were -- I said what is it? What is it? And they kept, you know, holding me, wait, I don't know what it is. One of our friends ran into the room and said, we need an ambulance, tried to dial 911, and I kept screaming, what is it? What is it? And, you know, then in just a couple of minutes, then I walked into the living room."

    Okay, interesting. I was thinking of the kids' "playroom" on the second floor, I guess.

    Read the first thread. Blue Crab had some good sources, if memory serves, even before most of us saw the transcripts.

    But I have to admit, it's so confusing trying to follow these transcripts, without the crime scene photos, with all the "inaudibles," with that huge house and so many different and changing versions. The detectives went around and around, and I know that's how they interview people so they can determine if they stay with the same story, and also to pry more info out, sometimes just small details that dribble out a little at a time.

    I'm reading the transcripts some more, because John Ramsey is asked at one point if the crime scene techs were there, during the questions about the basement window, when he was down there, etc. He says yes, they were there. He's asked if Officer French went down there before they arrived and he says yes. It's a bit ambiguous, but Kane was pushing to find out exactly when John was in the basement that morning, when he saw that chair in front of the door, etc., and that's when John says it was before Arndt was there prepping him for "the kidnappers' call." That changed John's timeline for being in the basement to before 7 to 9 am, as far as what he had been telling LE.

    Oh, I brought up the "crime scene techs" being there that early because the first link is to a thread where people are trying to figure out when the crime scene photo was taken of the chair in front of the train room door, as John said he moved it. That's the point of the thread, as you know. Posters seemed to think no photos were taken before the body was found, but I somehow got the impression photos were taken early in the morning. Maybe I thought that because of the staged ransom note on the stairs and the staged basement window cracked open,etc.

    It's all so confusing....

    Whew. Trudging on....

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Okay, interesting. I was thinking of the kids' "playroom" on the second floor, I guess.

    Read the first thread. Blue Crab had some good sources, if memory serves, even before most of us saw the transcripts.

    But I have to admit, it's so confusing trying to follow these transcripts, without the crime scene photos, with all the "inaudibles," with that huge house and so many different and changing versions. The detectives went around and around, and I know that's how they interview people so they can determine if they stay with the same story, and also to pry more info out, sometimes just small details that dribble out a little at a time.

    I'm reading the transcripts some more, because John Ramsey is asked at one point if the crime scene techs were there, during the questions about the basement window, when he was down there, etc. He says yes, they were there. He's asked if Officer French went down there before they arrived and he says yes. It's a bit ambiguous, but Kane was pushing to find out exactly when John was in the basement that morning, when he saw that chair in front of the door, etc., and that's when John says it was before Arndt was there prepping him for "the kidnappers' call." That changed John's timeline for being in the basement to before 7 to 9 am, as far as what he had been telling LE.

    Oh, I brought up the "crime scene techs" being there that early because the first link is to a thread where people are trying to figure out when the crime scene photo was taken of the chair in front of the train room door, as John said he moved it. That's the point of the thread, as you know. Posters seemed to think no photos were taken before the body was found, but I somehow got the impression photos were taken early in the morning. Maybe I thought that because of the staged ransom note on the stairs and the staged basement window cracked open,etc.

    It's all so confusing....

    Whew. Trudging on....
    I've always gone with this old RMN article listing it at 9:00 A.M. The source for the story is Lou.

    In fact, police photographs taken before 9 a.m. the morning of JonBenet's death show much of the perimeter of the house, including walkways, free of snow.

    [SNIP]

    A photograph of the closed door with the palm print was taken before 9 a.m. the morning of the killing, before JonBenet's body was discovered.

    http://m.rockymountainnews.com/news/...-in-her-shoes/

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Their lies are so upsetting and the lack of police follow up on it is even more aggravating. Det. Linda Arndt SAW JR carrying JB up from the basement in an upright position, his hands around her waist, and she was NOT covered by a blanket.
    It wasn't until Det. Arndt moved JB from the foyer where JR placed her, to under the Christmas Tree, that JR pulled an afghan from a chair in the living room and put it over JB's body. Arndt added to the destruction of the crime scene FIVE times. First by allowing JR to search the house unsupervised, second by moving the body herself after JR brought her up, third by allowing him to throw an afghan over the body, fourth by throwing a sweatshirt over the body herself, and fifth by allowing Patsy to throw herself over the body as well.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.



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