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  1. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobC View Post
    Cherokee--I was there years before 2004 and I am certain that fence was not there. I know because some lady was raking leaves in the next yard and she was in plain view. We also noticed how sound carried so easily there--we heard the neighbor raking before we saw her.

    And there's that cat...
    I was going to ask when you took your photos so we could date them. I wondered about the fence because it looked so new, and I'd never seen a pic that included it ... but then, photos were always cropped to show the front of the house. Of course, the iron grate fence in front was added later, so that's probably when they added the wood fence around the sides and back, as well as the back iron gate attached to the side of the house.

    My first thought upon seeing the house and yard, and then walking onto the property, was small it was and how close it was to the neighbors. In the press photos, the house always looked so imposing like a mansion on an estate, but it's nothing like that.

    We had a little corgi that followed us around and got in our photos. It was almost like a friendly presence that welcomed us.

  2. #26
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    I am looking at my photos. That black metal fence did NOT exist--and I know the wooden one didn't either because I distinctly recall being surprised that anyone would focus on that window as an entry point because it was completely open. The North side of the house had a hedge row somewhat blocking the view of the next house, so if I wanted to enter the house illegally, I would have chosen that side over this one. This trip was in 1997 if I recall correctly. Possibly 98. I could figure it out.

  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobC View Post
    I am looking at my photos. That black metal fence did NOT exist--and I know the wooden one didn't either because I distinctly recall being surprised that anyone would focus on that window as an entry point because it was completely open. The North side of the house had a hedge row somewhat blocking the view of the next house, so if I wanted to enter the house illegally, I would have chosen that side over this one. This trip was in 1997 if I recall correctly. Possibly 98. I could figure it out.
    I had the exact same thought when I saw the house! That north side of the house, as opposed to the south side where the open backyard was located, was much more hidden and secluded.

  4. #28
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    Notice how small this house really is. I could touch the roof over the door with ease.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  5. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobC View Post
    I am looking at my photos. That black metal fence did NOT exist--and I know the wooden one didn't either because I distinctly recall being surprised that anyone would focus on that window as an entry point because it was completely open. The North side of the house had a hedge row somewhat blocking the view of the next house, so if I wanted to enter the house illegally, I would have chosen that side over this one. This trip was in 1997 if I recall correctly. Possibly 98. I could figure it out.
    Thank you for posting these excellent photos, Bob. I can't imagine what this would be like actually standing right beside the Ramsey house. I take it no one was living there at the time (?).
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  6. #30
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    Elle--the house was so much smaller than it looked on TV. Yes it is a three story house but the ceilings were so low it reminded me of a doll house. Also--I don't know if it was because of the altitude or the hilly terrain in winter, but sound carried in a way I'd never really heard before. Looking in the windows was enlightening too--I could see how Burke could hear the refrigerator door open from the 2nd floor.

    There was no fence, no do not disturb signs or anything. I think it was for sale so we didn't feel bad about looking around. It was a very nice house--just smaller than I expected.

    The minute I saw it everything made sense.

  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobC View Post
    Elle--the house was so much smaller than it looked on TV. Yes it is a three story house but the ceilings were so low it reminded me of a doll house. Also--I don't know if it was because of the altitude or the hilly terrain in winter, but sound carried in a way I'd never really heard before. Looking in the windows was enlightening too--I could see how Burke could hear the refrigerator door open from the 2nd floor.

    There was no fence, no do not disturb signs or anything. I think it was for sale so we didn't feel bad about looking around. It was a very nice house--just smaller than I expected.

    The minute I saw it everything made sense.
    Could you elaborate further, Bob? Made Sense because ... ... ... ?
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  8. #32
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    Those pics are from 1999.

    Elle--when you find out about an extraordinary case like this through the media, you tend to view it like it's an episode of Murder She Wrote. All these crazy theories of terrorist teams and sexual sadists and child porn rings are part of that. But once I could see how small and quaint and ordinary this house was, I understood that something fairly mundane probably occurred that the family tried to cover up. Looking at the grate and broken window and the tons of debris in the window well--it finally struck me as to what great mental leaps you'd have to make in order for the intruder theory to work. I have always hated people who just dream up some half-baked theory and then try to shoe-horn all the facts into that.

    JBR's balcony was so low, I could touch it. There were pipes to climb up to that balcony and a grill you could stand on to get to it. That was the obvious way to get that little girl. All this convoluted crap about three or four people going through that stupid grate was obviously wishful thinking. And look at that video tape of the basement--do you see how low that window is? But John Ramsey said you'd need a suitcase to stand on to get out. Maybe if you were physically disabled or an elf--but otherwise no.

  9. #33
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    Thanks for the pics BobC. I remember some of these from long ago that you posted. I plan on buying this book after payday, July 31.

    I think it is as simple as this as far as no arrest. The Rams had high profile attorneys on their side. They also had connections with the governor. Not to mention the crime scene being screwed up, Arndt's decision to let Lizard Tongue inspect the house around 1:00. Add in Alex Hunter being scared of the Rams' attorneys. Enter Hair Curtains to add the final touch. The Ramseys were well respected (not low life meth users, lower class, etc.). It's like the perfect storm.

    I gotta say, I still have my hackles raised about Burke's involvement. I have from the beginning and because Burke shall not STILL be talked about much, I still have suspicions. I'm not saying he did everything here, but it is hinky to me as far as his involvement in any of this. The only thing I'm certain of are these things. Patsy wrote that note. She and John were involved in the coverup (i.e. the fibers from Patsy's jacket, John's clothing, I think).

    SOMEONE was messing around with JonBenet with the sexual abuse. Before and near or at the time of her death. Who did what when?

    I still think all 3 of who were alive in that house that day know what happened. That's just my opinion and it is sad that it is where it is. Sad that the Rams thought they had to protect themselves with their money and power and not get justice from the "intruder". And after seeing that video on the Daily Beast, I hate Loose Mitts even more for his deception. Along with Hair Curtains.
    I despise the Ramseys and this is just my opinion

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by fr brown View Post
    Wasn't Burke questioned after he was whisked off to the Whites' house? The police got his grandmother's permission or something. I've always wondered what he said.

    (Or do I have this completely wrong?)
    No, you’re right

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I don't remember anything about getting "his" grandmother's permission--she was in Georgia, right? But I could have just missed that or forgotten it--one thing I like about this book is Kolar goes over all the stuff we've known for years, but has gotten lost in my crowded memory when it comes to this case. (I'm not half way through, though, so still have lots to go.)

    At any rate, Burke was questioned at the White's by a police officer--I think that's what I remember.

    The Ramseys were incensed to learn that! He didn't have their permission! Team Ramsey has jumped on this like LE was doing something sinister. In fact, it was not illegal, as a kidnapped child is exigent circumstances and questioning Burke as a WITNESS without parental presence or permission, ow without legal representation, was not illegal.

    This is a perfect example of how the Ramseys were lawyer crazy and always have given the impression of not cooperating with LE. Their child was "missing" and certainly in danger if the ransom note was in fact written by someone who had kidnapped her (not to mention by the time they were blaming LE for everything they could think of, they had already buried their brutalized and murdered child). But they're all indignant that SOMEONE FINALLY ASKED HER BROTHER QUESTIONS. He was down the hall from her room, one of three remaining WITNESSES in the house, and up to that point, NO ONE HAD ASKED BURKE ANYTHING.

    Kolar reports that White said he and Burke said little to each other on the trip to White's house, including Burke asked no questions about his sister.

    Anywho...I'm pretty sure that the Ramseys deliberately did not want Burke questioned--by anyone. I think he was awake and talking to John that morning at the end of Patsy's 911 call, and I am beginning to think a lot worse.

    Boulder investigators did get one preliminary opportunity to speak with Burke, however, and Detective Fred Patterson had the foresight to scramble to the White residence not long after the discovery of JonBenét’s body. This interview took place at approximately 1500 hours on the afternoon of December 26, 1996, and a woman at the residence, identifying herself as Burke’s grandmother, sat in on the interview. The transcript of the recording was the first glimpse I had into Burke’s thought processes
    Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet?, James Kolar, page 346

    Although we were unaware of it at the time, the police had interrogated Burke quite extensively on the morning of December 26 while he had been at the Whites’. Police cannot legally question a child without a parent or guardian’s permission. They claimed in their written report that they had received permission from his grandmother to do the interview. (At the time his maternal grandmother, Nedra Paugh, was in Atlanta, and his paternal grandmother had died before Burke was born.) The police tape-recorded the session. However, we didn’t learn about this interrogation until Burke was subpoenaed to appear before the grand jury in 1999.
    Death of Innocence, John and Patsy Ramsey, page 31

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    No, you’re right




    Boulder investigators did get one preliminary opportunity to speak with Burke, however, and Detective Fred Patterson had the foresight to scramble to the White residence not long after the discovery of JonBenét’s body. This interview took place at approximately 1500 hours on the afternoon of December 26, 1996, and a woman at the residence, identifying herself as Burke’s grandmother, sat in on the interview. The transcript of the recording was the first glimpse I had into Burke’s thought processes
    Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet?, James Kolar, page 346

    Although we were unaware of it at the time, the police had interrogated Burke quite extensively on the morning of December 26 while he had been at the Whites’. Police cannot legally question a child without a parent or guardian’s permission. They claimed in their written report that they had received permission from his grandmother to do the interview. (At the time his maternal grandmother, Nedra Paugh, was in Atlanta, and his paternal grandmother had died before Burke was born.) The police tape-recorded the session. However, we didn’t learn about this interrogation until Burke was subpoenaed to appear before the grand jury in 1999.
    Death of Innocence, John and Patsy Ramsey, page 31
    I don't believe a word John Ramsey says. I highly doubt Burke didn't tell his parents he talked to police at the Whites. I really highly doubt JR and PR didn't ask him what went on when he was at the Whites that day.

    Who was at the Whites house that day who was old enough to pass as Burkes grandma? And why didn't Burke tell the police it wasn't his grandma? Were Fleet and Priscilla already so suspicious of JR and PR that they asked an older female houseguest to claim to be Burkes grandma so there would be someone there to give permission for an interview....without JR and PR knowing about it?

    This whole story about Burkes interview at the Whites leaves a whole lot of questions.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    I don't believe a word John Ramsey says. I highly doubt Burke didn't tell his parents he talked to police at the Whites. I really highly doubt JR and PR didn't ask him what went on when he was at the Whites that day.
    LOL, ITA.
    "we didn’t learn about this interrogation until Burke was subpoenaed to appear before the grand jury in 1999."
    Puh-leeze, try to make it at least a LITTLE believable.

    Who was at the Whites house that day who was old enough to pass as Burkes grandma? And why didn't Burke tell the police it wasn't his grandma? Were Fleet and Priscilla already so suspicious of JR and PR that they asked an older female houseguest to claim to be Burkes grandma so there would be someone there to give permission for an interview....without JR and PR knowing about it?

    This whole story about Burkes interview at the Whites leaves a whole lot of questions.
    I certainly wouldn't mind hearing from the Whites on this one!



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