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  1. #85
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    I don't believe John Ramsey molested anybody. In most cases, a parent who has that compulsion molests more than one child, and there is no record of any of the other kids being molested. There was no semen detected anywhere. Boys can become interested in sexual experimentation before they are physically able to produce semen/sperm. If prior molestation had been occurring with an adult male in that home, the signs of semen more than likely would have been found somewhere. On a carpet, blanket, pillow--somewhere.

    I believe this was sexual experimentation which may or may not have been related to the actual murder.

  2. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobC View Post
    I don't believe John Ramsey molested anybody. In most cases, a parent who has that compulsion molests more than one child, and there is no record of any of the other kids being molested. There was no semen detected anywhere. Boys can become interested in sexual experimentation before they are physically able to produce semen/sperm. If prior molestation had been occurring with an adult male in that home, the signs of semen more than likely would have been found somewhere. On a carpet, blanket, pillow--somewhere.

    I believe this was sexual experimentation which may or may not have been related to the actual murder.
    I get your point, but no way am I going to be convinced the paintbrush shoved into the child was not related to the prior molestation in some way. WAAAAAY too much coincidence for me. Even if it was just the catalyst that cause the tension in the family resulting in an outburst of anger...it was related, IMO.

    But now that you bring it up...JAR's semen was on that duvet in the suitcase with a child's book near the body in the basement....

    Just saying....

    Maybe JR was protecting more than Burke and/or Patsy that night....

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
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  3. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I get your point, but no way am I going to be convinced the paintbrush shoved into the child was not related to the prior molestation in some way. WAAAAAY too much coincidence for me. Even if it was just the catalyst that cause the tension in the family resulting in an outburst of anger...it was related, IMO.

    But now that you bring it up...JAR's semen was on that duvet in the suitcase with a child's book near the body in the basement....

    Just saying....

    Maybe JR was protecting more than Burke and/or Patsy that night....
    You know, I never really considered JAR as the molester. I thought that any talk of the suitcase, the duvet, etc. was just another blind alley to lead us away from the true perpetrator(s).

    Do we know how old that duvet was? Do they have any way to test how old a sample of semen is? How did they discover it was JAR's semen?

    Was the children's book IN the suitcase with the duvet? That's strange, very strange.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  4. #88
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    KK--straight up: maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But since staging is usually used to draw attention away from what really happened it is completely possible that the murder had nothing to do with anything sexual. There was a black serial rapist in Atlanta that wrote notes to investigators saying he was in the Klan--that alerted investigators that he probably wasn't white, much less in the Klan.

    The injuries inside JBR's vagina from that night involving the paintbrush (I feel creepy even saying this) were not THAT extreme. It was gentle as far as sexual predators are concerned. I think the staging shows that some sort of "mild" molestation was being made to look like it was extreme--but the perpetrator didn't have the heart to really follow through. Do you really think that some sexual predator would not have left the whole paintbrush in that girl? As it stands, we have a trace of "cellulose. "

    This is a RAGE KILLING, meant to look like a sexual sadistic attack. The ransom note adds a third motive (terrorism).

  5. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    You know, I never really considered JAR as the molester. I thought that any talk of the suitcase, the duvet, etc. was just another blind alley to lead us away from the true perpetrator(s).

    Do we know how old that duvet was? Do they have any way to test how old a sample of semen is? How did they discover it was JAR's semen?

    Was the children's book IN the suitcase with the duvet? That's strange, very strange.
    JAR could be innocent as a lamb, for all I know. But...someone used his old suitcase to help create an "exit" for a faux intruder, so they dragged JAR into this, not us.

    I mean, come on: in the actual crime scene video we see on The Daily Beast of the basement "train room" and "broken window" area, there is a small CHAIR and a STEPPING STOOL. FEET FROM THE WINDOW. But we have had it drummed into our heads for 15 years that the old intruder decided to use a SUITCASE to step up and out the small window. That came straight from JR and Lou Smit, so if JAR is innocent, he has them to thank for that red herring with JAR's name on it.

    They identified JAR's semen because, thanks to John and Patsy, the suitcase came into play with a duvet and child's book inside it. The duvet was also tested for fibers, even reported by Smit to be a match to those in the child's genital area. (This is another conflict of information, as in 2000 in Atlanta interviews with the Ramseys, Boulder LE said John's dark wool shirt was the source. After reading Kolar's book, I don't see how anyone with a functioning brain can accept anything Smit ever said without extreme scrutiny. Smit flat made stuff up--which of course, we suspected all along.)

    The exam of the duvet also turned up JAR's semen, matched because of course his DNA had been developed to compare against other crime scene samples. The Ramseys and JAR said the suitcase belonged to JAR, it was his duvet, brought from his dorm or some such. JR said he took the suitcase downstairs and it was DEFINITELY not supposed to be "in that area." JR said it was kept under the stairs or some such. Heh. Interesting that the intruder went HUNTING for a SUITCASE to help climb out the window, when a stool and chair were RIGHT THERE. What kind of fool believes this stuff?

    JAR was also, statistically speaking, in the perfect age group as the highest percentage of sexual abusers of siblings: older brothers, teen-to-young adult, particularly. Of course, this doesn't mean he was the abuser. But he was the only child of JR rarely mentioned in DOI and never pictured, if memory serves. We noticed. There was also a week or so before Christmas when JAR's whereabouts are a mystery to us, when he left Boulder, allegedly, on Dec. 19th, and then popped up in the story again on Christmas Eve, about the same time as Grandpa Paugh showed up on his "stand-by" flight to Atlanta.

    Weird on top of weirder. All these things could have innocent explanations, of course, but we never hear them, do we? Of course we're going to be looking at these things, as the Ramseys decided to go public to convince the world they are innocent--minus the BPD, of course.

    Another example: what was the title of the Dr. Seuss book in the suitcase? The RST has made a major deal out of that through the years by refusing just to say what it is. I think they actually want to keep JAR on the hot seat, another red herring, because keeping people confused is to their advantage, since there is obviously no actual intruder to be found.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  6. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobC View Post
    KK--straight up: maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But since staging is usually used to draw attention away from what really happened it is completely possible that the murder had nothing to do with anything sexual. There was a black serial rapist in Atlanta that wrote notes to investigators saying he was in the Klan--that alerted investigators that he probably wasn't white, much less in the Klan.

    The injuries inside JBR's vagina from that night involving the paintbrush (I feel creepy even saying this) were not THAT extreme. It was gentle as far as sexual predators are concerned. I think the staging shows that some sort of "mild" molestation was being made to look like it was extreme--but the perpetrator didn't have the heart to really follow through. Do you really think that some sexual predator would not have left the whole paintbrush in that girl? As it stands, we have a trace of "cellulose. "

    This is a RAGE KILLING, meant to look like a sexual sadistic attack. The ransom note adds a third motive (terrorism).
    BobC, I love you to bits, but trust me on this: that assault with that paintbrush was EXTREMELY painful.

    But I do think it was to cover up the prior molestation, not any sexual assault for the purpose of being sexual in any way that night.

    I'm hoping the child was far from being capable of registering the pain by that point.

    I do agree with the "rage killing" theory. That head injury was major anger.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  7. #91

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    If you are under any illusion that Mark Beckner and the BPD are interested in continuing to investigate this case in any way, his current statements to the media that the case is officially cold and is no longer being actively investigated should be an eye opener.

    In his book, Kolar talks several times about Beckner's attitude towards the case. Some interesting observations:

    Beckner actually GAVE the case to then DA Lacy in 2002, because she had no actual authority to take the case away from the BPD when the investigation was moved to her Office entirely.

    Lin Wood loves to take credit for that, and I think he was the tipping point for it when he threatened to sue Boulder, but as Kolar lays it out, the Ramseys had been working with the DA's Office since 1998. John Ramsey had been meeting with and exchanging letters with Lou Smit, a DA investigator then; removing the BPD from the investigation was a topic of their exchanges.

    The '98 interviews with the Ramseys were conducted by the DA's investigators and effectively excluded the BPD. In 1998 Hunter determined the actual BPD investigators who knew the case best would not be called to work on or testify for the Grand Jury. The BPD was out: done deal.

    But this...RIGHT HERE...says it all. When DA Garnett was elected in 2008, he turned the case back over to the BPD and Beckner. Kolar recounts Beckner's cool response to an actually important step which could further anaylze one of the most important pieces of evidence in the case, the ransom note:

    From Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet?, by A. James Kolar; pages 366-67:

    [Author’s note: I spoke again to SSA Fitzgerald in March, 2012.
    He had since retired from the FBI and indicated that he had
    written to Chief Beckner in early 2009, not long after Boulder
    Police had taken back the case from the DA’s Office. He was
    offering to put together a small team of forensic linguistic experts
    from around the nation to take another objective look at the
    ransom note. One of his peers from the United Kingdom had
    volunteered to participate as well, and it was posed to Chief
    Beckner that the analysis work would be performed pro-bono.
    Chief Beckner reportedly thanked the agent, but for unknown
    reasons, turned down the offer.

    Fitzgerald continues to practice as a forensic linguist, and went
    to work for the Academy Group, Inc., located in Manassas, VA
    following his retirement from the FBI. He has been involved in
    a number of high-profile cases since leaving the BAU that have
    involved the field of threat assessment, and textual analysis.69

    There have been many intervening cases over the years
    that have validated the foundation for this type of criminal
    investigative work, and notwithstanding Chief Beckner’s decision
    to decline Fitzgerald’s earlier offer, I think it would be interesting
    to see what a new panel of experts would determine as far as
    authorial attribution of the ransom note.]

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  8. #92

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    I've started another thread on Kolar's discussion of evidence which could indicate Burke was...involved. Kolar brings up a disorder called "Sexual Behavior Problems" and lays out a lot of research and info, not to mention evidence we have never heard before:

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...d=1#post190987

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  9. #93

    Question

    Way behind in reading this thread, but wanted to ask...

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    I don't believe a word John Ramsey says. I highly doubt Burke didn't tell his parents he talked to police at the Whites. I really highly doubt JR and PR didn't ask him what went on when he was at the Whites that day.

    Who was at the Whites house that day who was old enough to pass as Burkes grandma? And why didn't Burke tell the police it wasn't his grandma? Were Fleet and Priscilla already so suspicious of JR and PR that they asked an older female houseguest to claim to be Burkes grandma so there would be someone there to give permission for an interview....without JR and PR knowing about it?

    This whole story about Burkes interview at the Whites leaves a whole lot of questions.
    For you that have read Kolar's book - is the Burke interview in there, or any bits of it?? I, too, Thor have to wait until my next paycheck to buy the book!

    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    LOL, ITA.
    "we didn’t learn about this interrogation until Burke was subpoenaed to appear before the grand jury in 1999."
    Puh-leeze, try to make it at least a LITTLE believable.



    I certainly wouldn't mind hearing from the Whites on this one!
    Me, too, cynic, now THAT would be very interesting! Wasn't she a poster on here once, or am I thinking of Miller's wife/friend?
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  10. #94
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    Koldkase,

    I thought the paintbrush action was actually done after JonBenét was dead to camouflage any existing evidence of molestation. Same deal with the garrote which was also added to the fictitious crime. I always thought JonBenét died from the vicious blow to her head done by someone with a violent temper - maybe Burke with the flashlight if JonBenét was bothering him (?). I'm repeating myself from another post, but we all do this. Burke may have stormed off to bed without realizing he had killed JonBenét, with Patsy discovering her body in the morning and the coverup began (?).

    I think both the Ramseys were involved in the coverup. I've always felt John Ramsey knew exactly where JonBenét was and was on edge because the police were not finding her. In a flash he finds her when policewoman Linda Arndt asks him to search the house.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  11. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niner View Post
    Me, too, cynic, now THAT would be very interesting! Wasn't she a poster on here once, or am I thinking of Miller's wife/friend?
    It was Tom Miller's wife.

  12. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobC View Post
    The injuries inside JBR's vagina from that night involving the paintbrush (I feel creepy even saying this) were not THAT extreme. It was gentle as far as sexual predators are concerned. I think the staging shows that some sort of "mild" molestation was being made to look like it was extreme--but the perpetrator didn't have the heart to really follow through. Do you really think that some sexual predator would not have left the whole paintbrush in that girl? As it stands, we have a trace of "cellulose. "

    This is a RAGE KILLING, meant to look like a sexual sadistic attack. The ransom note adds a third motive (terrorism).
    Bob, I agree with you.

    Could the trace of cellulose have come from the stager's gloved finger after having broken and used the paintbrush to create the "garrote"?

    On the other hand, the broken off tip of the paintbrush's handle was nowhere to be found, was it? The autopsy report describes the paintbrush as "irregularly broken at both ends," so maybe the stager molested her with the tip and then discarded it(?)



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