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  1. #37
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    Default Blood on JonBenet

    It just occurred to me that when my son fractured his skull, he bled from his ear on that side. Since JonBenet was hit so hard, I would imagine that she might have also bled from one or both of her ears. Was there any blood found in her hair to suggest that she had? Or would there be a medical reason why she would not have also bled from her ear(s)?
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  2. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    It just occurred to me that when my son fractured his skull, he bled from his ear on that side. Since JonBenet was hit so hard, I would imagine that she might have also bled from one or both of her ears. Was there any blood found in her hair to suggest that she had? Or would there be a medical reason why she would not have also bled from her ear(s)?
    The autopsy noted no blood in her hair or in her ear. But it does note "tan mucus" on her cheek, sleeve and I believe nostrils. I feel this may indicate that at some point, there was blood in her nose and/or mouth. While the coroner noted evidence of WIPED blood from her thighs and pubic area, he made no such observations anywhere else. Had JB lived longer, she may very well have bled from her ears, nose, and mouth in more significant amounts.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  3. #39

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    I guess this goes under a DNA thread. I just finished watching a 48 hours murder mystery. A son, with big gambling debt, was convicted of killing his parents in order to get his inheritance.

    Some of the evidence was interesting. First of all, detectives noticed a trail of bloody footprints through the crime scene. They, immediately, thought this was staging because no half sane criminal would leave 20 perfect bloody imprints of his shoes across a murder scene. Since they knew the killer was trying to throw police, THEY BECAME INTERESTED IN FAMILY MEMBERS and could rule all out except this one son.

    Secondly. After collecting other evidence which all but proved the guilt of the son, the defense used foreign dna to try and get the son off the hook.
    It seems that the blood, from the parents taken from the floor, was tested, an UNKNOWN DNA was mingled with the blood sample. This, the defense argued, was proof that someone other than the son had killed the parents.
    Thankfully, the jury wasn't swayed by this.

    Trace DNA is all over the place.

  4. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    I guess this goes under a DNA thread. I just finished watching a 48 hours murder mystery. A son, with big gambling debt, was convicted of killing his parents in order to get his inheritance.

    Some of the evidence was interesting. First of all, detectives noticed a trail of bloody footprints through the crime scene. They, immediately, thought this was staging because no half sane criminal would leave 20 perfect bloody imprints of his shoes across a murder scene. Since they knew the killer was trying to throw police, THEY BECAME INTERESTED IN FAMILY MEMBERS and could rule all out except this one son.

    Secondly. After collecting other evidence which all but proved the guilt of the son, the defense used foreign dna to try and get the son off the hook.
    It seems that the blood, from the parents taken from the floor, was tested, an UNKNOWN DNA was mingled with the blood sample. This, the defense argued, was proof that someone other than the son had killed the parents.
    Thankfully, the jury wasn't swayed by this.

    Trace DNA is all over the place.
    Thanks for this post, Learnin.

    That true-crime drama emphasized what we've been staying all along, and you put so eloquently:


    Trace DNA is all over the place.


    It's frustrating for the Ramseys and their apologists to deny it and try to parade the contaminent DNA around as if it actually belongs to a bonafide suspect, but we know the truth.

    As I've said many times, the Ramseys got lucky when the partial, degraded contaminent DNA was found in the unwashed pair of over-sized panties that had been put on JonBenet during the redressing.

    If you've ever seen a TV special about the overwhelming amount of germs, bacteria and DNA residue that is all around us in our homes and on ourselves, it's almost enough to make your skin crawl! We think we have clean houses, but under the microscope, it's a different story.

    Patsy Ramsey claimed she couldn't remember the last time JonBenet had a bath. We've seen from photos the mess in the Ramsey house and basement. JonBenet was around many people for several days, including Christmas Day, and those people were around many others. The Christmas Holidays are packed with shopping and crowds and get-togethers. There's the opening of presents and new toys that have been touched by other shoppers, stock people and manufacturing company. For that reason, when JonBenet was killed:


    Trace DNA was all over the place.


    As Dr. Henry Lee famously said, "This is not a DNA case ...," but the Ramseys are desperate to cling to anything that will make them look innocent.

  5. #41
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    Amazing heymom! I wonder what the situation would have been like if her father had been a factory worker! (?)
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  6. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Amazing heymom! I wonder what the situation would have been like if her father had been a factory worker! (?)
    Trust me, someone would have been in prison about 2 mos. at the most after the murder. Obviously, Burke would not have been able to be charged, but the parents would have been interrogated and they'd have told the truth soon after that. I'm not sure what they might have plea-bargained down to - maybe obstructing justice? And maybe they would have gotten off with just probation and a fine. But Burke would have been removed and put into some kind of treatment facility, I think.

    Well, it's all about money and connections, isn't it? Less affluent people have to trust the system and hope for justice.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  7. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Amazing heymom! I wonder what the situation would have been like if her father had been a factory worker! (?)
    If JonBenet's father had been a factory worker ... he and his wife would have been separated and questioned immediately after JonBenet's body was brought up from the cellar, and BEFORE they had to run off to a friend's house to hide behind lawyers.

    If JonBenet's father had been a factory worker ... he and his wife wouldn't have been able to hire a Public Relations firm to arrange a CNN interview one week after the murder (when public sentiment began to turn against them), while still refusing to be questioned at the police station under the guise of being "too distraught."

    If JonBenet's father had been a factory worker ... he and his wife would NOT have been allowed to refuse to come down to the police station for questioning until FOUR MONTHS LATER and they wouldn't have been able to demand what questions could be asked!!!

    If JonBenet's father had been a factory worker ... we wouldn't be here 15 1/2 years later having this conversation because the case would have been solved and closed.

    The Ramsey case is one of the most heinous examples of the true American justice system - one path for the rich and well-connected, another path for those who aren't. American justice is not only blind; she favors those who line her pockets.

  8. #44
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    Default So basically, it's over

    Or as Henry Lee put it, "Rice already cooked."

    There isn't going to ever be an arrest, or even an interview. We'll never know what really happened that night, not unless Burke snaps when he's 40, like John said he might. John's never going to tell the truth and Burke has a rather vested interest in keeping silent.

    So much for justice. It's never going to happen. Sorry, JonBenet. Am I the only one who feels like crying all over again?

    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  9. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    Or as Henry Lee put it, "Rice already cooked."

    There isn't going to ever be an arrest, or even an interview. We'll never know what really happened that night, not unless Burke snaps when he's 40, like John said he might. John's never going to tell the truth and Burke has a rather vested interest in keeping silent.

    So much for justice. It's never going to happen. Sorry, JonBenet. Am I the only one who feels like crying all over again?

    No, you're not the only one. The reality is always a letdown in this case.

    At least we now have a brilliant rebuttal, from an impeccable source, to "Stun Gun" Smit's Intruder Extravaganza and "PERV Karr" Lacy's Exoneration Pageant.

    A lot of Ramsey lies have been debunked, as well. Kolar completely lays out how Team Ramsey started their "Dead-Girl-and-Intruder Show" on Day One, and for the first time we are given the details of exactly how the Ramseys ended up on CNN on Jan. 1st, the day after their child was buried. Turns out John Ramsey lied about that (SHOCKED--not); he fingered Fleet White yet again, but Kolar gives info and a source that exposes the truth--it was JR's bank buddy, Westmoreland, who set up that CNN interview all along. The whole thing was planned, complete with a video camera allowed inside the church service for JB in Atlanta, to be aired as part of the CNN interview. Boy, JOB sure hated Fleet by the end of that week, didn't he? He's still sticking it to Fleet, even in his latest: Book 2 of Ramsey Lies.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    No, you're not the only one. The reality is always a letdown in this case.

    At least we now have a brilliant rebuttal, from an impeccable source, to "Stun Gun" Smit's Intruder Extravaganza and "PERV Karr" Lacy's Exoneration Pageant.

    A lot of Ramsey lies have been debunked, as well. Kolar completely lays out how Team Ramsey started their Dead-girl-and-Intruder Show on Day One, and for the first time we are given the details of exactly how the Ramseys ended up on CNN on Jan. 1st--and John Ramsey lied about that, fingering Fleet White yet again. Boy, JOB sure hated Fleet by the end of that week, didn't he? He's still sticking it to Fleet, even in his latest: Book 2 of Ramsey Lies.
    If I were Fleet White, I might just sue his a$$ for slander and libel and threaten him with exposing the truth. What kind of friend throws suspicion on a person who has been nothing but caring up until that point? Fleet must have seen JOB Ramsey for who he is, a deadly
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  11. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    I guess this goes under a DNA thread. I just finished watching a 48 hours murder mystery. A son, with big gambling debt, was convicted of killing his parents in order to get his inheritance.

    Some of the evidence was interesting. First of all, detectives noticed a trail of bloody footprints through the crime scene. They, immediately, thought this was staging because no half sane criminal would leave 20 perfect bloody imprints of his shoes across a murder scene. Since they knew the killer was trying to throw police, THEY BECAME INTERESTED IN FAMILY MEMBERS and could rule all out except this one son.

    Secondly. After collecting other evidence which all but proved the guilt of the son, the defense used foreign dna to try and get the son off the hook.
    It seems that the blood, from the parents taken from the floor, was tested, an UNKNOWN DNA was mingled with the blood sample. This, the defense argued, was proof that someone other than the son had killed the parents.
    Thankfully, the jury wasn't swayed by this.

    Trace DNA is all over the place.
    That was a rebroadcast of a show that they aired a few months ago and one that I saved in my “collection” of cases that are prosecuted with un-sourced DNA notwithstanding.
    I recently used this over at WS in response to a poster that kept insisting that un-sourced DNA must always be resolved.

    The Noura Jackson Case:
    Status: Defendant successfully prosecuted and currently in prison
    Type of Case: Matricide, circumstantial
    DNA: “There was DNA from someone else at the crime scene.”


    Detectives now have their theory that Noura is the killer. But there’s one big problem: there was no DNA, blood or fingerprints from Noura at the crime scene.
    There was DNA from someone else at the crime scene.
    "We know there was some unknown DNA that was on a bed sheet," Merritt said.
    "It could have been skin. It could have been sweat," added Miller.
    The investigators were never able to find out whose DNA it was. The only thing they could say for sure was that it wasn't Jennifer’s or Noura's.
    "I think we know who did it," Noura said. "We just have to find them."
    "I’ve never had a case where a daughter killed her mother…18-years-old. You don’t want to think that, but who else is there?" said Sgt. Tim Helldorfer of the Memphis Police Department.
    Even though police have almost no scientific evidence against her, they are convinced Noura hated her mother, snapped that night and killed her in a fit of rage.
    "I think the biggest concern everybody had was we don’t have the eyewitness. We don’t have the smoking gun and we didn’t have the DNA," Sgt. Helldorfer said. "But what we had was a lot better than what we didn’t have."
    Three-and-a-half months after Jennifer Jackson was stabbed to death in her bedroom, police finally arrested her daughter and charged her with first-degree murder.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18559_16...;videoMetaInfo

    The Ernie Scherer Case:
    Status: Defendant successfully prosecuted and currently in prison
    Type of Case: Matricide, Patricide, circumstantial
    DNA: “…foreign DNA found mixed in with the victim's blood does not match Ernie.”


    Awaiting his trial, a confident Ernie Scherer mocked the case against him.
    "That was one of his statements to me: 'I wanna be free by Christmas. Hey, come on,'" said Det. Scott Dudek.
    Prosecutor Mike Nieto admits his evidence is circumstantial.
    "I want you to tell me about the witness who saw Ernie enter his parents' home that night" Peter Van Sant asked Nieto.
    "There is no witness that saw Ernie enter his parents' home," he replied.
    "Are there any fingerprints?"
    "There were no fingerprints."
    "So no witness, no fingerprints...and you can't verify the car."
    "Yes."
    "That's a strong case?"
    "It is," Nieto replied. "When you consider everything together, everything points to Ernie being responsible."
    The defense counters with solid forensic evidence, saying foreign DNA found mixed in with the victim's blood does not match Ernie.
    "That's your killer, isn't it?" Van Sant asked Dudek.
    "That's what the defense would have you believe," he replied. "Just because someone's DNA is present, that doesn't mean they're the responsible party. ...Could've been one of the first responders at the scene. It could've been anyone that had been in the Scherer home prior to March 7th, 2008."
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18559_16...in;contentBody

    Part One
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZZZ3t8B9Rk

    Part Two
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyPH3QnsT80

    Part Three
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f11RbW0HweY

    The Glenn McNeill Case:
    Status: Defendant successfully prosecuted and currently in prison
    Type of Case: Homicide, circumstantial
    DNA: Analysis of Miss Patton's underwear found evidence of a mixed DNA profile from two females. Unidentified female DNA under Patton's fingernails and on her shorts and underpants…


    The murder case of Janelle Patton clearly illustrates that matching DNA in three locations can have an innocent explanation and have no bearing, whatsoever, on the prosecution of the case. The DNA of the man who committed the crime (McNeill) was not found on the body of the victim.
    McNeill was arrested in February and charged with murdering Janelle Patton, whose death was the first murder recorded on the self-governing island in 150 years.
    The body of the 29-year-old was found wrapped in plastic at a picnic spot on Easter Sunday 2002.
    Forensic evidence presented at a hearing into the murder of Janelle Patton on Norfolk Island has shown no DNA link to the New Zealand man accused of killing her.
    The court has heard expert testimony from scientists who tested Miss Patton's clothing for DNA traces. Of more than 100 samples, they were unable to find the accused's profile on any of them.
    Analysis of Miss Patton's underwear found evidence of a mixed DNA profile from two females.
    Unidentified female DNA under Patton's fingernails and on her shorts and underpants, coupled with the ferocity of the attack, suggested motives such as "jealousy, rage, anger and revenge" –– emotions that could be felt only by someone who, unlike McNeill, knew Patton, the defense lawyer claimed.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/news/artic...220&ref=imthis

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/t...-1111113128516
    McNeill was primarily convicted on the basis of fingerprint evidence and his confession.
    A later appeal of the verdict was rejected.
    The Janelle Patton case demonstrates that forensic evidence that doesn’t “fit” within the larger context of a case can be dismissed as evidence that must have an innocent explanation.

    Part One
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us5rPYxLe9Q

    Part Two
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF20p28MLRg

    Part Three
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM_5gfAnbJ8

    Part Four
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKJPMwYYMwI

    The Steven DeMocker Case:
    Status: Prosecution in progress
    Type of Case: Homicide, circumstantial
    DNA: DNA from 3 unidentified men found in 3 locations:
    Under the fingernails of the victim’s left hand.
    On the victim’s left hand
    On a cell phone held by the victim.


    Although the prosecution of DeMocker began with the DNA being of unknown origin, one profile (out of three unknown profiles) was later identified as contamination from a prior autopsy.
    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...519issues.html

    September 1, 2010
    A scientist who works at a private laboratory testified Wednesday that Carol Kennedy had DNA from three unknown men underneath the fingernails of her left hand.
    Alexis Brown, a supervisor at the Sorenson Forensic laboratory in Salt Lake City, Utah, told a jury in the murder trial for Kennedy's ex-husband, Steven DeMocker, that Kennedy also had DNA from three unknown males on her left hand itself.
    In addition, Brown said, a cordless phone that her laboratory tested showed the DNA from three unidentified males. Tests found that the DNA had not come from DeMocker, she said. Kennedy was talking to her mother on the phone in the evening of July 2, 2008, when she suddenly exclaimed, "Oh, no," and the call ended. Her mother, Ruth Kennedy, became alarmed when she could not then reach her daughter and eventually called the Yavapai County Sheriff's Office. A deputy looked into a window of Carol Kennedy's Williamson Valley home and saw her body on the floor of a room she used as an office. A cordless phone lay nearby.
    Brown said tests excluded DeMocker's DNA from the samples taken from Kennedy's hand, nails and the cell phone.

    Previously, Dr. Philip Keene, who performed the autopsy on Kennedy, said the nail clippers he used to clip her nails were pulled from a drawer and might not have been sterile.
    DeMocker, who voluntarily gave a statement to detectives the night of his former wife's death, said that he had been riding his mountain bike on trails near Granite Mountain at the time of her death. He offered to give them blood and DNA samples.
    Det. Luis Huante, one of the initial investigators, testified that DeMocker aroused his suspicions when he came to Kennedy's Bridal Path house that evening after his younger daughter told him that her mother died. DeMocker asked Huante if he was a suspect. Also, Huante noted scratches on DeMocker's arms and legs that DeMocker said came from bushes along the trail.

    http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?Sec...=293&btnView=1

    In September of 2010, the prosecution was pretty sure that the unidentified DNA that the defense was touting as DNA from the “real killer(s)” was the result of contamination. They were right.
    6 months later the owner of the major DNA profile in the case was identified

    March 21, 2011
    DeMocker trial: Mystery DNA identified
    Results support prosecution's nail clipper contamination theory

    PRESCOTT - The DNA found on fingernail clippings of the victim in the murder trial of Steven C. DeMocker has been identified as being that of a man who may have died prior to or shortly after Carol Kennedy, according to documents obtained by the Courier.
    The results may substantiate claims by the prosecution that the nail clippers used by the medical examiner were contaminated.
    The prosecution in the DeMocker trial on Monday asked Judge Warren R. Darrow to order the Chino Valley Medical Center and the Yavapai Regional Medical Center to release the medical records of Ronald Lloyd Birman, who, the document said, "has been identified as the major donor of the DNA profile, previously unknown" by the Department of Public Safety's crime lab.

    The Yavapai County Medical Examiner, Dr. Philip Keene, did an autopsy and determined Birman bled to death after an arterial graft failed.
    DeMocker is accused of beating to death Kennedy, his ex-wife, on July 2, 2008.

    The timing of the Birman's death will play a crucial role in DeMocker's retrial, as will the existence of DNA on Kennedy's body from what appears to be a totally unrelated person, which may point to contamination at Keene's office, as previously reported in the Courier.
    Kennedy's fingernail contained DNA from three people, one "major" profile and two "minor" profiles. The DNA test results are believed to refer to the "major" profile, according to testimony quoted in the Courier.
    On Aug. 24, 2010, Dr. Keene testified under examination by Deputy County Attorney Joseph C. Butner III that the clippers used to trim Kennedy's nails for evidence had not been sterilized.
    The prosecution says in the motion that it wants to "corroborate the findings of the DPS crime lab."
    Because a gag order has been imposed on the trial, neither side was able to speak about the motion or the identification made by DPS.
    Scott Orr, The Daily Courier
    http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?Typ...ionID=1&Page=3

  12. #48
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    When I served on a murder trial jury, most of us understood that there was no gun found, and no witnesses to the shooting. The evidence was more circumstantial but it was substantial, if you know what I mean. But 2 of the jurors did not want to convict the defendant on the evidence we had. I think shows like CSI and other crime shows like it have totally distorted people's concepts of how a case is solved. If you watch a show such as "The First 48," you see real detective work, and it's not all flash and bang and tire tread databases, or DNA that proves the killer did it. It's just a lot of pounding the pavement, talking to witnesses, teasing out informants, and putting together a good scenario of what happened.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!



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