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  1. #1

    Default So many abrasions!!

    I was reading the Bonita papers last night and in those papers she describes the wounds and marks in more of common type language rather than the medical jargon in the autopsy report. Now I know there is a lot of mistakes and some misinformation in the papers but I was focusing on the injuries and she seemed to be taking that info straight from the autopsy report and putting it into simple words. This is the part that jumped out at me:

    From the Bonita papers:

    The upper front surfaces of JonBenet's left shoulder contained horizontal scrapes with blue-green bruising apparent in the area of the injury.

    This is described I think in the autopsy report on page 4. It sounds like the same thing to me. I can't copy it to over here, sorry. I'm not that computer savvy. Anyway, reading the autopsy report and the Bonita papers focusing only on bruises and abrasions I never realized how "beat up" she actually was! She had bruising and abrasions everywhere, it seems like most of them were on the right side. Doesn't one have to be alive to bruise?
    Has anyone else noticed this and what could it mean?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    I was reading the Bonita papers last night and in those papers she describes the wounds and marks in more of common type language rather than the medical jargon in the autopsy report. Now I know there is a lot of mistakes and some misinformation in the papers but I was focusing on the injuries and she seemed to be taking that info straight from the autopsy report and putting it into simple words. This is the part that jumped out at me:

    From the Bonita papers:

    The upper front surfaces of JonBenet's left shoulder contained horizontal scrapes with blue-green bruising apparent in the area of the injury.

    This is described I think in the autopsy report on page 4. It sounds like the same thing to me. I can't copy it to over here, sorry. I'm not that computer savvy. Anyway, reading the autopsy report and the Bonita papers focusing only on bruises and abrasions I never realized how "beat up" she actually was! She had bruising and abrasions everywhere, it seems like most of them were on the right side. Doesn't one have to be alive to bruise?
    Has anyone else noticed this and what could it mean?
    Just as the petechiae (broken capillary blood vessels) indicate that JonBenet’s heart was beating (when strangled,) any bruising could have occurred between the time that she received the head injury and was asphyxiated.

  3. #3

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    When Patsy was picking out which gown to have JB buried in she picked out a sleeveless one. She asked John if JB had bruises on her arms. He said no. She asked again if he was sure and he said she had no bruises on her arms.

    How did he know? When he found her she was wearing the long sleeved white top and he never saw her again after that. How did he know,..and why did Patsy think John would know?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    When Patsy was picking out which gown to have JB buried in she picked out a sleeveless one. She asked John if JB had bruises on her arms. He said no. She asked again if he was sure and he said she had no bruises on her arms.

    How did he know? When he found her she was wearing the long sleeved white top and he never saw her again after that. How did he know,..and why did Patsy think John would know?
    Was the autopsy report even done by then? Where was this information given - I have never read it before. That's pretty darn strange...If Patsy had done the staging, including wiping down JonBenet's body, she would have known what she looked like. Did the gown have a high neck or did they use make-up to cover that bruise on her throat?
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    When Patsy was picking out which gown to have JB buried in she picked out a sleeveless one. She asked John if JB had bruises on her arms. He said no. She asked again if he was sure and he said she had no bruises on her arms.

    How did he know? When he found her she was wearing the long sleeved white top and he never saw her again after that. How did he know,..and why did Patsy think John would know?
    Good for you, Karen, being very observant! Makes you wonder, doesn't it, if Patsy truly was the one who was in a rage and threw her around in anger against the bath or whatever? Maybe this was why she was asking John, and when did John find out as you ask!? I remember being surprised about quite a few things I came across when reading the Bonita Papers a long time ago.

    Wasn't there some talk about a book being written from these Bonita Papers a very long time ago? The secretary who took the notes or something? Maybe KK will know. She knows everything!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Good for you, Karen, being very observant! Makes you wonder, doesn't it, if Patsy truly was the one who was in a rage and threw her around in anger against the bath or whatever? Maybe this was why she was asking John, and when did John find out as you ask!? I remember being surprised about quite a few things I came across when reading the Bonita Papers a long time ago.

    Wasn't there some talk about a book being written from these Bonita Papers a very long time ago? The secretary who took the notes or something? Maybe KK will know. She knows everything!
    Why would Patsy be worried about JonBenet's arms being bruised? Unless perhaps she had grabbed JonBenet or thought John or Burke had grabbed her...There weren't bruises though, so if Patsy had grabbed her, it wasn't hard enough to cause bruises. Which begs the question - If Patsy had grabbed JonBenet to change her and accidentally thrown her against the bathtub or another hard surface, why WEREN'T JonBenet's arms bruised? We're talking a HUGE force cracking this little girl's skull apart, but her arms are not bruised? It argues for someone not touching her with their hands but hitting her from above and possibly behind.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    Why would Patsy be worried about JonBenet's arms being bruised? Unless perhaps she had grabbed JonBenet or thought John or Burke had grabbed her...There weren't bruises though, so if Patsy had grabbed her, it wasn't hard enough to cause bruises. Which begs the question - If Patsy had grabbed JonBenet to change her and accidentally thrown her against the bathtub or another hard surface, why WEREN'T JonBenet's arms bruised? We're talking a HUGE force cracking this little girl's skull apart, but her arms are not bruised? It argues for someone not touching her with their hands but hitting her from above and possibly behind.
    heymom, I read it in the Bonita Papers.
    I thought maybe Patsy was asking it because there was someone else around to hear her and it makes her look innocent and unaware of Jonbenets injuries, but then John turns around and answers her! Blew me away. I read the Bonita Papers a very long time ago and thought I'd read them again while I'm waiting for my book.
    Patsy chose a sleeveless pageant gown for burial and I think it had ruffles or something to cover her neck area. Since it was sleeveless she wanted to know about her arms, and if bruises were going to show I presume she would have picked out something else.

    The Bonita Papers
    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...ead.php?t=4502

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    Another thought about Patsy being in a rage that night, JonBenét wasn't attending any pageants if they were going away on holiday the next morning, but Patsy would really need to be careful of JB's arms at all times if she attended pageants on a regular basis. Koldkase posted photographs displaying a few.

    An adult would know the consequences of throwing a child around in a rage if her head struck a hard object like the toilet bowl or bath(?), but when it comes to a nine year old boy like Burke, I could see an oblect like a torch being lifted to strike another child with it if he was going through a fit of anger.

    It's Patsy I see in a fit of rage relating to a soiled bed and being on the tired side from the whole Christmas scene. It's Burke I see being annoyed with JonBenét at the table quibbling with each other, but that blow to the head appears to have been done with an adult in a rage throwing a child around, I'm thinking! (?).
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Another thought about Patsy being in a rage that night, JonBenét wasn't attending any pageants if they were going away on holiday the next morning, but Patsy would really need to be careful of JB's arms at all times if she attended pageants on a regular basis. Koldkase posted photographs displaying a few.

    An adult would know the consequences of throwing a child around in a rage if her head struck a hard object like the toilet bowl or bath(?), but when it comes to a nine year old boy like Burke, I could see an oblect like a torch being lifted to strike another child with it if he was going through a fit of anger.

    It's Patsy I see in a fit of rage relating to a soiled bed and being on the tired side from the whole Christmas scene. It's Burke I see being annoyed with JonBenét at the table quibbling with each other, but that blow to the head appears to have been done with an adult in a rage throwing a child around, I'm thinking! (?).
    If JonBenet had fallen against a hard object, wouldn't the side of her face/head have shown some bruising too? What about black eyes? My son hit his head on the side and he had facial swelling. And I still can't see how she could fall against something on TOP of her head, hard enough to cause her skull to be bashed in and cracked in half. The physics just don't add up for me.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    If JonBenet had fallen against a hard object, wouldn't the side of her face/head have shown some bruising too? What about black eyes? My son hit his head on the side and he had facial swelling. And I still can't see how she could fall against something on TOP of her head, hard enough to cause her skull to be bashed in and cracked in half. The physics just don't add up for me.
    I have to agree with this. As has been discussed many times, also there would have been other injuries such a "fall" or "throw" would have caused. Like a broken neck, bruises common with those types of injuries, to the arms and legs, back or sides, etc. A body that falls violently enough to cause such a fracture would necessarily have enough velocity to cause other injuries as the rest of the body followed the head into the contact surface.

    I think it was a blow using something heavy enough and with enough "length" to cause that much damage on the less rigid skull of a six year old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Another thought about Patsy being in a rage that night, JonBenét wasn't attending any pageants if they were going away on holiday the next morning, but Patsy would really need to be careful of JB's arms at all times if she attended pageants on a regular basis. Koldkase posted photographs displaying a few.

    An adult would know the consequences of throwing a child around in a rage if her head struck a hard object like the toilet bowl or bath(?), but when it comes to a nine year old boy like Burke, I could see an oblect like a torch being lifted to strike another child with it if he was going through a fit of anger.

    It's Patsy I see in a fit of rage relating to a soiled bed and being on the tired side from the whole Christmas scene. It's Burke I see being annoyed with JonBenét at the table quibbling with each other, but that blow to the head appears to have been done with an adult in a rage throwing a child around, I'm thinking! (?).
    So you, like Steve Thomas, don't include John Ramsey in JonBenet's abuse/murder?
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    If JonBenet had fallen against a hard object, wouldn't the side of her face/head have shown some bruising too? What about black eyes? My son hit his head on the side and he had facial swelling. And I still can't see how she could fall against something on TOP of her head, hard enough to cause her skull to be bashed in and cracked in half. The physics just don't add up for me.
    Yes, I see what you're saying here. JonBenét's face wasn't bruised. and the hole in her head is large.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.



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