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  1. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC View Post
    The poster Bluecrab had a theory that always made a lot of sense to me, altho I can't remember what it was. It seems like it involved JAR and a friend of his, Nathan something or another.
    But would Patsy really cover up for John's son and/or his friend? I think these theories are going rather far afield, frankly. I don't see Patsy being loyal to her step-kids in the same way that she would be to her own children. John might put her up to it, though. But I think her reactions when the detective starts to ask her questions about Burke, "Don't go there, buddy!" are quite telling!
    Last edited by heymom; July 30, 2012, 12:55 pm at Mon Jul 30 12:55:22 UTC 2012.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  2. #38

    Default PATSY RAMSEY: "Burke Ramsey did not do this, okay. He did not do this. Get off it."

    Not only does Patsy get angry when Tom Haney questions her if Burke could have been involved in JonBenet's death, she changes her story about whether she's talked to Burke about it. At one point, Patsy says they haven't talked to Burke about it, but later, when pressed by Tom Haney why Burke couldn't have been involved, Patsy says it is BECAUSE she has talked to him about it!

    Patsy also says Burke has never asked any questions about JonBenet's murder. Very unusual. Most family members would WANT to know, especially if there was a supposed intruder who came into the house. Maybe Burke didn't need to ask questions about JonBenet's death because he already knew most of the answers?

    John and Patsy Ramsey were separately interviewed for three days on June 23, 24, and 25, 1998 -- and Burke Ramsey had been interviewed for three days one week earlier. Burke's interview is not available, but here's excerpts from some of Patsy's responses to questions asked by Tom Haney about Burke:


    TH: "What have you told Burke about the murder?"

    PR: "To date?"

    TH: "To date."

    PR: "Well, just that we are going to try to find out who did this to JonBenet. I haven't told him anything about how she was murdered or the details like that."

    TH: "What details would he know or had you talked with him about?"

    PR: "To be quite honest, we really haven't talked to him much about it. It's too hard, you know, it's hard to talk about."

    TH: "Has he volunteered information?"

    PR: "No."

    TH: "Has he had questions?"

    PR: "No."

    TH: "Never 'what's going to happen, who did it'?"

    PR: "No."

    TH: "Did he ever mention getting up at any time during the night?"

    PR: "No."

    TH: "So he slept through until -- I believe it was John that ultimately got him up to take to the Fernies?"

    PR: "Yes, to my knowledge."


    [At that point the Ramseys had not been informed they had Burke's voice on the enhanced 911 tape. The question was formed to lock in Patsy's lie about Burke being in bed asleep during the 911 call.]


    ----------

    TOM HANEY: "And have you [John and Patsy] talked about it a lot, have you discussed all of these various theories?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "Over and over and over."

    TOM HANEY: "You say he didn't do it and he says you didn't do it, and didn't have any part in any coverup, anything like that. Any staging. That only leaves one other person alive in the house at the time, that's Burke."

    PATSY RAMSEY: "And the murderer."

    TOM HANEY: "5:52 A.M.?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: Okay. So?"

    TOM HANEY: "So you said it wasn't you and it wasn't John. Could it have been Burke?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "No. It wouldn't have been Burke."

    TOM HANEY: "Why couldn't it?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "How do you believe you saw (inaudible) a ten year old, nine year old boy (inaudible). Plus the fact that he loved his sister."

    TOM HANEY: "It's not unheard of for a nine or ten year old child?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "My child is unheard of."

    TOM HANEY: "And why is that? What would make him different from some other nine or ten year old?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "Because he was not raised in a family of violence. We are a very loving family."

    TOM HANEY: "Could it have been an accident?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "I -- don't know."

    TOM HANEY: "Well, you and I don't know because we weren't there?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "Right."

    TOM HANEY: "So do you think it could have been, he could have pushed her down the stairs -- "

    PATSY RAMSEY: "Burke Ramsey did not do this, okay. He did not do this. Get off it."

    TOM HANEY: "How do you know that, though? I mean, have you talked to him about it?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "Yes."
    Last edited by Cherokee; July 30, 2012, 1:52 pm at Mon Jul 30 13:52:27 UTC 2012.

  3. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    Not only does Patsy get angry when Tom Haney questions her if Burke could have been involved in JonBenet's death, she changes her story about whether she's talked to Burke about it. At one point, Patsy says they haven't talked to Burke about it, but later, when pressed by Tom Haney why Burke couldn't have been involved, Patsy says it is BECAUSE she has talked to him about it!

    Patsy also says Burke has never asked any questions about JonBenet's murder. Very unusual. Most family members would WANT to know, especially if there was a supposed intruder who came into the house. Maybe Burke didn't need to ask questions about JonBenet's death because he already knew most of the answers?

    [snip]
    Kolar discusses Patsy's motivations quite a bit in regards to possible involvement of Burke in this crime.

    One thing that Kolar pondered, which basically is analyzing the Ramsey's own behavior post crime, was why the Ramseys rushed Burke out of the home that morning without allowing LE to ask him any questions.

    Kolar goes over how many ways the Ramseys refused to allow Burke to be freely questioned by LE repeatedly.

    When BPD Officer Patterson actually questioned Burke at the White's house shortly after JB's body was found, the Ramseys later found out and complained like Patterson was abusing their son.

    It's called investigating the murder of your daughter, and why would you find that to be a problem?

    Never mind; we know the answer to that.

    Kolar mentions the woman at the White's claiming to be Burke's grandmother, but the Ramseys misrepresented that, as well--shocker. In fact, the woman did say she was Burke's grandmother, and she's not identified by Kolar, but she only "SAT IN" on Patterson's questioning of Burke. Kolar NEVER says she "gave him permission" to question Burke.

    So it appears to me this is yet ANOTHER Ramsey attempt to discredit the BPD by using the Ramsey DISINFORMATION machine: the BPD did not NEED permission to question Burke in the murder of JonBenet...he wasn't a suspect, just a WITNESS. And the woman probably was a relative of the White's and trying to protect Burke as an adult representing his interests, I am guessing.

    Most parents who had their child MURDERED by an INTRUDER in their basement might actually WANT to question the other family member in the home that night.

    Kolar points out many instances of the Ramseys stating they never even questioned Burke themselves. Kolar believes this is odd...and what normal person would not?

    Your observations about Burke asking no questions about his sister's well being or who might have done this, not to mention showing no signs of fear and stating to the DSS child psychologist he was not afraid, are also brought up in the book.

    The chapter on SBP is so revealing: Kolar actually makes the case that children of Burke's age not only are capable of doing this crime, but have many times. Kolar cites research, crime statistics, behavioral studies, etc.

    It really brings home the same point that has protected the Ramseys for so long: most people immediately discounted Burke because of the brutality and his age.

    In point of fact, research into this type of youthful offender crime was still in the early stages of documentation and research in 1996. So just like the people who still can't believe those good Christians, John and Patsy Ramsey, could do such a thing, many were unable to imagine Burke could, as well.

    Kolar makes the case that this presumption is a mistake and Burke is the one person left to look at closely in connection with the violence and assaults on JonBenet, absent an intruder.

    John's and Patsy's own behaviors seem to point directly AT Burke, as well.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  4. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    Burke was three weeks away from being 10 years old, and he was a head taller than JonBenet. If she was crouched down, not standing up, Burke most certainly could have brought down a golf club on her head with enough force to crack it.
    This photo was taken in late Spring of 1996, and shows Burke and JonBenet standing up (as opposed to the "sitting" Christmas card photograph of that year), and a person can get a better idea of how much taller Burke was than JonBenet. Of course, they both would have grown some in the six plus months from the time of this photo until December 25, 1996, but their height ratio should still have been about the same.

    In the photo, Burke is a full head taller than JonBenet. The top of her head (minus the hat) comes to his shoulders.

    (Photo taken by Judith Phillips)
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  5. #41
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    Nedra looks like a barrel of laughs, doesn't she?
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  6. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    Nedra looks like a barrel of laughs, doesn't she?
    I don't know whose idea that photo pose was, but it creeps me out every time I see it.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  7. #43
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    I thought Burke had the look of Nedra - nose and eyebrows!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
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  8. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    I thought Burke had the look of Nedra - nose and eyebrows!
    Elle, I thought the same thing - Burke does resemble Nedra quite a lot.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  9. #45
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    Nedra has ears that are very close to her chin line. Most ears are closer to eye level (makes wearing glasses easier). Now that I look at it, BR and JB also both have low ears, and I can't see Patsy but hers are probably the same. Look at Nedra and BR in that photo and try to imagine how a pair or glasses would sit on their nose without ears to hold them.

    This is a really creepy photo. Just as creepy as Victorian Death Photography. That is really creepy too.
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  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    Nedra has ears that are very close to her chin line. Most ears are closer to eye level (makes wearing glasses easier). Now that I look at it, BR and JB also both have low ears, and I can't see Patsy but hers are probably the same. Look at Nedra and BR in that photo and try to imagine how a pair or glasses would sit on their nose without ears to hold them.

    This is a really creepy photo. Just as creepy as Victorian Death Photography. That is really creepy too.
    Some of that is due to Nedra's face and Burke's face being raised slightly (Burke's is more exaggerated).

    I think this family shot was suggested by someone else, but I can't remember who specifically.

    Are there any photos of Don Paugh at all?
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  11. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    I think this family shot was suggested by someone else, but I can't remember who specifically.
    The photo was taken by professional photographer, Judith Phillips, who was a friend of Patsy's at the time. Judith is married to Thomas "Doc" Miller, and she is a registered member of FFJ, although she has not posted for awhile under her forum hat of "Cookie."

    You can do a search of the forum and look up the threads where this photo was originally posted by Judith/Cookie.

  12. #48
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    Oh good grief. This is the first one I've ever seen. Of course I don't visit graveyards.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
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