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  1. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I've considered if either the golf club or a bat were possible weapons which caused the head injury. I think the skull photos match a golf club, too.

    I wondered about the bat because of the women's softball bat found outside. It's metal and the "metal sound" heard by the neighbor early that morning seemed to fit with it being tossed onto the cement platform where it was found. If the bat were the weapon, it would have been the end where you grip, with the mushroomed part causing the displaced skull--comminuted skull fracture, I think is the medical term used in the autopsy?

    I don't remember that Burke had new train parts during this time. I could have just missed it. I do know John said something about a toy garage they put together, but in his latest book he mentioned Legos or something like that? I know Legos has long sold various "buildings" and "enviroments" like farms with animals and garages, so I don't find that so much inconsistent, but I don't know for sure, of course.

    Then again, I may have mistaken some of this. As I said, I need to keep reading because I've forgotten lots, and I hope Kolar is going to clear a lot of this up. Maybe others already have this info?
    One problem with the wrong end of a baseball bat being used is that the grip end is not weighted like the hitting end, so is much lighter and the person swinging it would have had to use a lot more force to cause that kind of a head injury. Whereas a golf club would be the opposite, the heavy part is on the bottom.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  2. #14

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    I'm starting to wonder if a hammer is really what was used after all.
    It fits all the criteria as far as I can see.
    Heavy, rounded surface, missing.

  3. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    I'm starting to wonder if a hammer is really what was used after all.
    It fits all the criteria as far as I can see.
    Heavy, rounded surface, missing.
    Would the shape of the hole would be round, in that case? Or if the side of the hammer had been used, perhaps the shape would look more like the head of the hammer?

    My belief is that a hole that size and with that crack, basically splitting her skull in half, was made by someone with a lot of force and a heavy weapon.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  4. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    Would the shape of the hole would be round, in that case? Or if the side of the hammer had been used, perhaps the shape would look more like the head of the hammer?

    My belief is that a hole that size and with that crack, basically splitting her skull in half, was made by someone with a lot of force and a heavy weapon.
    I don't know how those things work but I don't necessarily think the shape of the dislodged piece of skull has to match the shape of the object that hit it.
    If I had to count on that for some reason, I wouldn't.

  5. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    I don't know how those things work but I don't necessarily think the shape of the dislodged piece of skull has to match the shape of the object that hit it.
    If I had to count on that for some reason, I wouldn't.
    I tried to find actual autopsy photos of a hammer attack but my blocking software wouldn't allow it. However, here is a news article that describes the autopsy of a murder victim who was struck multiple times with a hammer:

    Kalispell Murder Trial

    "At least one of the blows forced pieces of Collins’ skull into his brain, Kemp said, and that injury had a shape consistent with the round end of a hammer."
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  6. #18

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    As I said before, I think a golf club, maybe a putter or iron, could have been used to inflict JonBenet's head injury.





    WARNING: GRAPHIC AUTOPSY PHOTO OF JONBENET'S SKULL INJURY
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Cherokee; July 23, 2012, 3:42 pm at Mon Jul 23 15:42:12 UTC 2012.

  7. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    As I said before, I think a golf club, maybe a putter or iron, could have been used to inflict JonBenet's head injury.
    That photo shows an almost perfect match with that type of club, look at the top section of the fracture, where the stem of the club meets the bottom. It's the right shape, size and angle.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  8. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    That photo shows an almost perfect match with that type of club, look at the top section of the fracture, where the stem of the club meets the bottom. It's the right shape, size and angle.
    Yes, it is.

  9. #21
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    Default How about this for a weapon?

    I was thinking that a putting wedge was just about the right shape.

    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  10. #22

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    From Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? by A. James Kolar:

    It had been stated repeatedly that there had been no prior
    recorded history / incidents of abuse that would have suggested
    parental involvement in JonBenét’s death. As I pointed out in the
    case analysis report and Power Point outline completed in the
    fall of 2006, Burke had already exhibited one prior incident of
    violence against JonBenét.


    The incident that involved a blow to the head with a golf club
    that took place in Michigan was claimed to be an “accident” by the
    Ramsey family, but it is interesting to note that this incident took
    place within a day or two of JonBenét’s birthday in August 1994.



    Below is Patsy Ramsey's version of the golf club incident. [Note: there is a transcription error on line 7. It should read "SHE was two or three" because if Burke was two or three, JonBenet was either not born yet or was a babe in arms.]

    Patsy says the incident happened in the summer of '93, when Burke would have been 6/12, and JonBenet was almost three. However, Kolar quotes from police records and says the incident happened a day or two before JonBenet's birthday (August 6th) 1994. Burke would have been 7 1/2, and JonBenet almost four. At 7 1/2, I don't think Burke would have been "just a little guy," as Patsy claims. Everything about this incident is minimized by the Ramseys.


    --------------

    24 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. There was
    25 mention while we are talking about that, there
    0294
    1 was mention of a situation where he apparently
    2 hit JonBenet with a golf club up at Charlevoix?
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.

    4 THOMAS HANEY: Could you tell us
    5 about that?
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: He was taking a
    7 practice swing, he was just a little guy, he was
    8 two or three, or two and a half, and he was --
    9 it was our first summer there, how young they
    10 were there.
    11 THOMAS HANEY: About what year
    12 would that have been?
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: That was '93, I
    14 believe. And he, you know, he was out there
    15 with his little Whiffle ball, golf balls, and
    16 she walked up behind and he kind of clipped her
    17 right on the cheek. And she screamed bloody
    18 murder.
    19 And I jumped down off the porch and
    20 grabbed her and, you know, slammed ice on it. I
    21 thought he got her in the eye, and went down
    22 there to the emergency room and, you know, the
    23 doctor looked and it was just, you know, that
    24 socket around your eye, protects your eye there,
    25 so she had a good old black eye for a while.

    0295
    1 She had a little, I don't remember which eye it
    2 was, little abrasion. I took her to a plastic
    3 surgeon just to see if there was anything to do
    4 to help there. He said it will go away. You
    5 know.
    6 THOMAS HANEY: So that was just an
    7 accidental --
    8 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. You know, he
    9 wasn't used to looking around and she walked
    10 right up behind him, so --
    11 THOMAS HANEY: Okay.
    12 TRIP DeMUTH: And who was the
    13 doctor?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, somebody there
    15 at the emergency room in Charlevoix.


    From JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas:

    That evening, John Ramsey went to Crist Mortuary to discuss funeral arrangements. In addition to the usual rites, transportation was needed for burial in Atlanta.

    Patsy awoke while he was gone and staggered from the bedroom to a couch, barely able to speak, and told her sisters she needed some things from Fifteenth Street.

    John was overheard to ask someone quietly, "Did you get my golf bag?"

    When I learned of that statement, it seemed totally out of order. There had been two golf bags in the house, but he had not specified which one he wanted. Neither bag was collected by police. Moreover, it was winter in Colorado, Michigan, and Georgia, not exactly optimal golfing conditions. Why would a man whose daughter had just been murdered be wanting his golf clubs anyway?



    From Steve Thomas' 2001 deposition:

    12 Q. Page 48, the first full paragraph.
    13 "John was overheard to ask someone quietly,
    14 'Did you get my golf bag?'
    " Did I read that
    15 correctly?

    16 A. Yes.

    17 Q. Who overheard him ask that
    18 question?

    19 A. I believe that was either John or
    20 Barbara Fernie.

  11. #23
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    A golf club was suspected as being the murder weapon--or at least one was the cause the head injury--very early on. But over time, the flashlight seemed to gain favor mainly because it was out on the kitchen table and shouldn't have been there given the recounting of events by the Ramseys. This goes to the heart of why this case will never be prosecuted. If we cannot even determine for sure what caused the massive head injury, how do you prove anything else?

    I have always believed that the flashlight was used to compose the ransom note and maneuver around the house in the dark. I think that Patsy left it on the table because she was freaked out and not thinking clearly. There is some debatable evidence that the light and batteries were washed--but that doesn't mean (for sure) it was the murder weapon.

  12. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    What IF the head bash weapon was the end of a golf club?
    Cherokee - I agree with your observations and analyses!

    I've long wondered if JB was hit with a golf club in the basement and that the broken window was connected to this. As in, the hitter swung the golf club, striking JB's head and then the window on the follow-through, or maybe there were multiple swings.

    This could be why the Ramseys tried to explain away and ignore the broken window.



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