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  1. #73

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    Here's the thing I'd like to stress about this subject. Let's pretend that JR was totally ignorant of what had happened until he heard PR's scream. Upon reading the ransom note, wouldn't he have awakened BR and question him?

    Whether they are lying or not, the Rams stated that they looked in on BR but he was asleep so they didn't bother him. There's no way they could know he heard anything during the night. There's no way John would allow him to sleep without questioning him if John was truly ignorant unless he knew what happened after reading the ransom note. In other words, if John was truly ignorant upon hearing PR's scream, he wasn't ignorant after reading the ransom note....he knew what probably had happened...if not, he would've questioned BR. Upon reading the ransom note, he had to know BR didn't write it so why did he allow him to sleep if he thought Patsy or one of his acquaintances had done it? If he thought it was Patsy, after reading the ransom note, then, why did he say: "HE didn't mean to kill her." ???

  2. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    Here's the thing I'd like to stress about this subject. Let's pretend that JR was totally ignorant of what had happened until he heard PR's scream. Upon reading the ransom note, wouldn't he have awakened BR and question him?

    Whether they are lying or not, the Rams stated that they looked in on BR but he was asleep so they didn't bother him. There's no way they could know he heard anything during the night. There's no way John would allow him to sleep without questioning him if John was truly ignorant unless he knew what happened after reading the ransom note. In other words, if John was truly ignorant upon hearing PR's scream, he wasn't ignorant after reading the ransom note....he knew what probably had happened...if not, he would've questioned BR. Upon reading the ransom note, he had to know BR didn't write it so why did he allow him to sleep if he thought Patsy or one of his acquaintances had done it? If he thought it was Patsy, after reading the ransom note, then, why did he say: "HE didn't mean to kill her." ???
    Bingo. Things I've always thought before. IF John was ignorant to what happened. For this reason (besides others), I assume John knew what happened before 911 was called. That would be one of the first things I would do, had I been in that position. Check on your other child and see if they heard anything.
    I despise the Ramseys and this is just my opinion

  3. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    Here's the thing I'd like to stress about this subject. Let's pretend that JR was totally ignorant of what had happened until he heard PR's scream. Upon reading the ransom note, wouldn't he have awakened BR and question him?

    Whether they are lying or not, the Rams stated that they looked in on BR but he was asleep so they didn't bother him. There's no way they could know he heard anything during the night. There's no way John would allow him to sleep without questioning him if John was truly ignorant unless he knew what happened after reading the ransom note. In other words, if John was truly ignorant upon hearing PR's scream, he wasn't ignorant after reading the ransom note....he knew what probably had happened...if not, he would've questioned BR. Upon reading the ransom note, he had to know BR didn't write it so why did he allow him to sleep if he thought Patsy or one of his acquaintances had done it? If he thought it was Patsy, after reading the ransom note, then, why did he say: "HE didn't mean to kill her." ???
    I agree. I'm starting to think maybe John was in the dark until he read the ransom note and figured it out and then went in to protect mode. He was protecting Burke, not Patsy. Patsy was protecting Burke too, but just in a different way, by writing the ransom note to explain the dead body in the basement.

  4. #76
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    I went to lunch with some co-workers the other day and decided to do a very simple test. None of them knew a thing about this case so there was no bias. I told them all to pretend they were Patsy Ramsey, and that their son and daughter were very close to each other, sleeping on the 2nd floor. You wake up around 5 am to start breakfast before catching a plane later that morning. You find a ransom note on the stairs that states someone has kidnapped your daughter. You run upstairs and find her gone.

    My simple question to my friends was this:

    What is the first thing you do after finding JBR missing?

    Every single one of them looked at me like I was stupid for asking, and then replied "Wake up Burke" or some variation of that like "keep Burke close to you."


    When I told them what went on with Burke that morning, "sleeping in" for hours while police swarmed the house, John shielding him from questions, etc.--all of my friends just got this look on their faces like they didn't believe that what I was saying could really have taken place, because none of it made sense.

    One of them even asked if the Ramseys were in prison.

    Nope!

  5. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    Here's the thing I'd like to stress about this subject. Let's pretend that JR was totally ignorant of what had happened until he heard PR's scream. Upon reading the ransom note, wouldn't he have awakened BR and question him?

    Whether they are lying or not, the Rams stated that they looked in on BR but he was asleep so they didn't bother him. There's no way they could know he heard anything during the night. There's no way John would allow him to sleep without questioning him if John was truly ignorant unless he knew what happened after reading the ransom note. In other words, if John was truly ignorant upon hearing PR's scream, he wasn't ignorant after reading the ransom note....he knew what probably had happened...if not, he would've questioned BR. Upon reading the ransom note, he had to know BR didn't write it so why did he allow him to sleep if he thought Patsy or one of his acquaintances had done it? If he thought it was Patsy, after reading the ransom note, then, why did he say: "HE didn't mean to kill her." ???
    Per Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey, Burke slept through: the kidnapper taking his sister away from the room down the hall, Patsy's initial scream outside JB's bedroom, John and Patsy yelling at each other "What about Burke?" and then allegedly checking in on him, the arrival of the police, the Whites, the Fernies, and Father Hoverstock. Then John "remembered him" and woke him up and sent him off to the Whites with his Nintendo. Ridiculous, how did they get away with that? I guess Burke also slept through asking "what did you find?" at the end of the 911 call.

    So maybe John, who knew nothing until then, woke up and read the ransom note and said "c'mon, Pats, you whacked-out bee-otch, what's going on here?" and got a confession and went along with the rest of it? Rather than knowing all along and helping with the staging? I dunno. Either way, Burke certainly was prepped to play possum and KEEP HIS MOUTH SHUT no matter what.

  6. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    Per Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey, Burke slept through: the kidnapper taking his sister away from the room down the hall, Patsy's initial scream outside JB's bedroom, John and Patsy yelling at each other "What about Burke?" and then allegedly checking in on him, the arrival of the police, the Whites, the Fernies, and Father Hoverstock. Then John "remembered him" and woke him up and sent him off to the Whites with his Nintendo. Ridiculous, how did they get away with that? I guess Burke also slept through asking "what did you find?" at the end of the 911 call.

    So maybe John, who knew nothing until then, woke up and read the ransom note and said "c'mon, Pats, you whacked-out bee-otch, what's going on here?" and got a confession and went along with the rest of it? Rather than knowing all along and helping with the staging? I dunno. Either way, Burke certainly was prepped to play possum and KEEP HIS MOUTH SHUT no matter what.
    IF that's what happened then it was Patsy who came up with the kidnap scenario. I just don't think John knew anything about the ransom note because I doubt he would have allowed that silly thing to be what was put forth to the police. IMO HE didn't even buy it so I don't think he would have allowed it, IF he were involved before that morning. Just thinking out loud.

  7. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    IF that's what happened then it was Patsy who came up with the kidnap scenario. I just don't think John knew anything about the ransom note because I doubt he would have allowed that silly thing to be what was put forth to the police. IMO HE didn't even buy it so I don't think he would have allowed it, IF he were involved before that morning. Just thinking out loud.
    I get it and you may be on to something. Patsy always yakked about how in control CEO John was, if he had been in charge of the coverup of the manner of JB's death, he surely have taken a different approach. Certainly no 3-page ransom note in Patsy's handwriting. Hmm.

  8. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    Here's the thing I'd like to stress about this subject. Let's pretend that JR was totally ignorant of what had happened until he heard PR's scream. Upon reading the ransom note, wouldn't he have awakened BR and question him?
    Yes. Maybe that's why Burke was up and asking questions on the 911 tape.

    Apparently both Steve Thomas and James Kolar think that JR came into the coverup late. This makes me have to re-think JR's role again for the zillionth time.

    For years I thought JR was utterly clueless until after the 911 call. Then I learned about his shirt fibers on JBR's underwear and had to revise my thinking.

    How are those shirt fibers explained on the brand new size 12 undies found on JBR's body if JR wasn't involved during her redressing?

  9. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    ....If he thought it was Patsy, after reading the ransom note, then, why did he say: "HE didn't mean to kill her." ???
    By then he was fully participating in the coverup, so IMO he deliberately changed the gender of the pronoun to throw suspicion on the fictitious intruder.

    As for whether or not he was clueless when the 911 call was made, there were only, what, four minutes, between the call and when the first cop showed up, right? So in four short minutes JR managed to get on board with the coverup, lying about Burke, hustling him out of there asap, and then acting all calm and cordial for the police, even having the presence of mind to not touch the note? Seems awfully quick for someone who is totally clueless, but maybe he was able to do that.

  10. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    IF that's what happened then it was Patsy who came up with the kidnap scenario. I just don't think John knew anything about the ransom note because I doubt he would have allowed that silly thing to be what was put forth to the police. IMO HE didn't even buy it so I don't think he would have allowed it, IF he were involved before that morning. Just thinking out loud.
    I tend to agree, but I'd thought possibly they concocted the plan together (that is, the plan set up by the note) and then Patsy was left in charge of writing the note while John attended to other aspects of the staging. Possibly he spent time trying out various staging ideas, which would have been time-consuming. Maybe one of those ideas was the broken basement window, which he later abandoned by explaining it away. Anyway, point being, they ran out of time and there wasn't any time left to rewrite the note, so he was stuck with it.

    Patsy's fibers connect her to JBR's staged body, though, so she was apparently actively involved in that part of the staging as well. But IMO that would've taken place before writing the ransom note, due to time of death being around 1:00 a.m.

  11. #83

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    Off topic, but how did Mrs. Ramsey show up at the door when the cops came with fresh makeup on? How could she not be puffy and streaky? During my times of crisis (you know, football teams losing, etc.) I cry my makeup off, and the reapplication always looks a little drag-queen-y. If she presented a clean face to John at 530 AM, then he didn't know. Or he made gave her a bag of frozen peas to get rid of the redness and swelling as part of the entire charade.

    Never mind.

    I like this discussion of "when did John join the coverup?" The most plausible to me is that Patsy found JonBenet first, went down the road a little with a coverup, and then got messed up and went to get John. Exactly when this happened...unknown.

    I can't believe James Kolar got me to turn away from PDI after fifteen years of being 95% sure it was her. Good work, sir.

  12. #84

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    There had to be time for John and Patsy to come up with the cover story. You know, Jonbenet fell asleep in the car and he carried her in, la tee da,. (HA!)
    Maybe after Patsy screamed and John read the ransom note and didn't buy it, Patsy fessed up, John got Burke up, and maybe at that time is when they concocted this story. BEFORE Patsy called 911.
    I wonder if they had originally planned to get up before the time they said? I always wondered how Patsy did everything she said like getting dresssed, make up, fussing with Jonbenets jumper, on her way downstairs to fix coffee and a light breakfast all in the time supposedly alloted before they had to get to the plane.
    I wonder if that is part of the whole lie. They planned to get up earlier. So John was up earlier and they had more time than we were led to believe before the 911 call.

    However, if Burke was woken up and confessed then why would he be saying "What did you find?" It has also been said he said, "Please what do I do?"
    Now THAT comment makes sense.
    Of course, Patsy could have made him go to his room while she wrote the ransom note without him knowing, and so when she was on the phone saying she found a ransom note he would ask, "what did you find?"
    I can see Patsy wanting to keep Burke out of it as much as she could so as not to tell him what she was going to do.



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