Page 15 of 15 FirstFirst ... 51112131415
Results 169 to 178 of 178
  1. #169
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    2,320

    Default

    I agree with you Elle. These were no dummies here. And can you imagine (if Burked really started this thing) coming upon that scene? My mind would be scrambled eggs.
    I despise the Ramseys and this is just my opinion

  2. #170
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    southern california
    Posts
    374

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobC View Post
    If I recall correctly, JR initially hired separate lawyers for him and Patsy within a couple of days of the murder (maybe Burke too), but the other family members got lawyers after the media took a big interest.


    Thor you may be right, but when you say B did it, what do you mean by "it?" The head blow? or the head blow and the strangulation?

    Speaking of lawyers and Ramsey private investigators, I was shocked to learn that the first person the R's PI's contacted was Fleet White, I think on the day after the murder. That is extremely suspicious. If they were truly interested in finding the killer, why did the PI's start with FW? And not the "suspects" the Ramseys fingered?

    Answer: They weren't interested in finding a killer. They wanted to know FW's version of events that night so Ramsey could get his story straight. Man this is so twisted.
    Let's see - Fleet was the one who took Burke to his home on the morning of the Kidnap Party at the Ramsey's - which meant he had a period of time when he was all alone with the boy. Maybe John was real anxious to find out just what Fleet learned from Burke in those crucial moments when they were alone together.

  3. #171
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    3,481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    I agree with you Elle. These were no dummies here. And can you imagine (if Burked really started this thing) coming upon that scene? My mind would be scrambled eggs.
    They made all the WRONG decisions though. The first thing any normal person would have done (unless they somehow had an idea something might happen) is to call 911. Everything else would have been sorted out later on. But that family had secrets, so it had to be covered up. Maybe one of the parents wasn't aware of the sexual abuse, but one certainly was, and maybe both were. So there was no thought of calling for help after JonBenet had been struck. And of course, if Burke did it, they were thinking that they would lose both of their children in one horrible night. So, they decided to "make believe" and keep the one child they had instead of telling the truth. They took a big risk, though. What if Burke had done the same thing to another child?
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  4. #172

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    Well, good question BobC. I'm leaning towards the head blow for sure. I don't think he constructed the neck contraption. All I know is I truly believe he is behind what started this mess. It's possible both parents were involved in the strangulation. They may have thought she was dead already, who knows? I just think Burke was the catalyst.
    I agree 100% with you, Thor. It's what makes sense given the evidence we know.

    I believe, in a fit of anger, Burke hit JonBenet from behind with a golf club, probably because that weapon was handy to where they were located at the time of head blow.

    Patsy and John did the staging with Patsy writing the ransom note. It's hard for me to see Patsy pulling the ligature tight on JonBenet's neck, but I can see John (the "Iceman" as Alex Hunter called him) doing it. As I said before, maybe Patsy constructed the ligature, but then handed it to John, saying she couldn't do it.

    I seriously don't know why Patsy would have done ALL the staging by herself if she were covering for Burke. There would have been no reason for her to keep John in the dark. I believe she and John were both involved with the staging of JonBenet's body in the basement, and Patsy was given the job of writing the ransom note.

    I believe the reason John got antsy as the morning of December 26th wore on was that things weren't working according to plan. The Boulder PD hadn't found JonBenet's body, and the Ramseys wanted OUT of that house and on a plane to Atlanta. The longer they stayed in the house, the more likely someone would catch on to the cover-up and would separate John and Patsy and question them. They'd already been able to get Burke out of the house so he couldn't be questioned or turn over his clothes, but John and Patsy still had to make their getaway.

    The only thing I've ever known (and what got me into this case many years ago) was that Patsy wrote the ransom note. Knowing that, I knew there was no intruder, but I didn't have it set in my mind who did what in the JonBenet's death. I was never sold on PDI or BDI, but I seriously doubted JDI because Patsy would have only written the ransom note for herself or Burke.

    Because I didn't know if the original head blow came from Patsy or Burke, I didn't know who did what with the staging except for the ransom note. My belief was that Burke did very little, if any, of the staging. So, if it was BDI (as in he struck the initial head blow) then Patsy and John would have done the staging. If it was PDI, then I could see Patsy doing the staging by herself WITHOUT letting John know what happened, and he figured it out the morning of the 26th.

    Now that Kolar has given us more evidence in his book, some of the missing pieces of the puzzle, I believe we have a coherent theory of the crime and cover-up. If Burke was the one who struck the initial head blow, then everything else falls into place. Patsy AND John were both in on the cover-up because there is no reason for Patsy NOT to get John to help, especially as she would have been distraught at thinking JonBenet was already dead. The approximate 90-minute gap of time from the head blow to the ligature strangulation was the time Patsy and John mourned what happened to JonBenet but also planned how they were going to save Burke and their family. They must have felt they had to pull themselves together for one chance to do that; they could give in to their grief later.

    Burke was sent to his room and told to stay there until one of them came to get him. His appearance during Patsy's 911 phone call upset John because it was not part of the plan, and John was afraid the operator would hear Burke's voice. Patsy was afraid of that, too, and that's why she hung up on the 911 operator so quickly when Burke started talking and John answered him. Their plan included the story of Burke sleeping all night and not being awakened until his father went to get him. If his voice was heard by the 911 operator, that part of the plan was in jeopardy.

    BDI (as in he caused the initial head injury) and P&JDCU (Patsy & John doing the cover-up), with PWRN (Patsy writing the ransom note) all fits with what we know. It also makes sense why the Ramseys stayed together all those years and why they sued anyone at the mention of Burke's name. They never sued Andrew Hodges or anyone else who wrote books saying Patsy did it EXCEPT for Steve Thomas who blew the whistle on the corruption in Boulder and how the Ramseys were given a pass by DA Alex Hunter. The Ramseys hated him for daring to expose why they weren't arrested, as well as the details behind their non-cooperation with the investigation.

    One more thing. Covering up for, and protecting, Burke is what John and Patsy used as a rationale for all the people they've thrown under the bus in the last 15 1/2 years. The Ramseys were trying to save their child, so in their warped and self-righteous minds, the end justified the means. As the farce went on, John and Patsy had to keep up the pretense, and they had to rely on the ridiculous fallacy that JonBenet was meant to die because "she had fulfilled her time on earth" (as they stated in their Hawaii interview). This was the answer to "why" it happened, as John famously asked less than a week after JonBenet's death (after saying they weren't angry with JonBenet's killer). John and Patsy decided they couldn't ever blame Burke for JonBenet's death since it was "an accident," so the "why" was only known to God, and it was up to them to salvage what they could, even if it meant destroying the lives of other innocent people.

    Some people will do anything for their children; even live the most horrendous and twisted lie. And John is still living it.
    Last edited by Cherokee; August 22, 2012, 1:49 am at Wed Aug 22 1:49:07 UTC 2012. Reason: to fix typos

  5. #173
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    2,320

    Default

    I agree especially with this Chero, you say:

    "I believe the reason John got antsy as the morning of December 26th wore on was that things weren't working according to plan. The Boulder PD hadn't found JonBenet's body, and the Ramseys wanted OUT of that house and on a plane to Atlanta. The longer they stayed in the house, the more likely someone would catch on to the cover-up and would separate John and Patsy and question them. They'd already been able to get Burke out of the house so he couldn't be questioned or turn over his clothes, but John and Patsy still had to make their getaway."

    I still think that another reason he was antsy was the body would start to smell and it sure as heck didn't seem anyone would find that body any time soon. They had her hidden too well. So when Arndt gave him the out to go check on things that might be out of place (to break the tension) at 1:05 p.m., he saw that as his chance to "find" her. I really believe that.
    I despise the Ramseys and this is just my opinion

  6. #174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    So when Arndt gave him the out to go check on things that might be out of place (to break the tension) at 1:05 p.m., he saw that as his chance to "find" her. I really believe that.
    I do, too.

    John didn't find JonBenet's body at 1 p.m., he made a bee-line for it.

  7. #175

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    I agree 100% with you, Thor. It's what makes sense given the evidence we know.

    I believe, in a fit of anger, Burke hit JonBenet from behind with a golf club, probably because that weapon was handy to where they were located at the time of head blow.

    Patsy and John did the staging with Patsy writing the ransom note. It's hard for me to see Patsy pulling the ligature tight on JonBenet's neck, but I can see John (the "Iceman" as Alex Hunter called him) doing it. As I said before, maybe Patsy constructed the ligature, but then handed it to John, saying she couldn't do it.

    I seriously don't know why Patsy would have done ALL the staging by herself if she were covering for Burke. There would have been no reason for her to keep John in the dark. I believe she and John were both involved with the staging of JonBenet's body in the basement, and Patsy was given the job of writing the ransom note.

    I believe the reason John got antsy as the morning of December 26th wore on was that things weren't working according to plan. The Boulder PD hadn't found JonBenet's body, and the Ramseys wanted OUT of that house and on a plane to Atlanta. The longer they stayed in the house, the more likely someone would catch on to the cover-up and would separate John and Patsy and question them. They'd already been able to get Burke out of the house so he couldn't be questioned or turn over his clothes, but John and Patsy still had to make their getaway.

    The only thing I've ever known (and what got me into this case many years ago) was that Patsy wrote the ransom note. Knowing that, I knew there was no intruder, but I didn't have it set in my mind who did what in the JonBenet's death. I was never sold on PDI or BDI, but I seriously doubted JDI because Patsy would have only written the ransom note for herself or Burke.

    Because I didn't know if the original head blow came from Patsy or Burke, I didn't know who did what with the staging except for the ransom note. My belief was that Burke did very little, if any, of the staging. So, if it was BDI (as in he struck the initial head blow) then Patsy and John would have done the staging. If it was PDI, then I could see Patsy doing the staging by herself WITHOUT letting John know what happened, and he figured it out the morning of the 26th.

    Now that Kolar has given us more evidence in his book, some of the missing pieces of the puzzle, I believe we have a coherent theory of the crime and cover-up. If Burke was the one who struck the initial head blow, then everything else falls into place. Patsy AND John were both in on the cover-up because there is no reason for Patsy NOT to get John to help, especially as she would have been distraught at thinking JonBenet was already dead. The approximate 90-minute gap of time from the head blow to the ligature strangulation was the time Patsy and John mourned what happened to JonBenet but also planned how they were going to save Burke and their family. They must have felt they had to pull themselves together for one chance to do that; they could give in to their grief later.

    Burke was sent to his room and told to stay there until one of them came to get him. His appearance during Patsy's 911 phone call upset John because it was not part of the plan, and John was afraid the operator would hear Burke's voice. Patsy was afraid of that, too, and that's why she hung up on the 911 operator so quickly when Burke started talking and John answered him. Their plan included the story of Burke sleeping all night and not being awakened until his father went to get him. If his voice was heard by the 911 operator, that part of the plan was in jeopardy.

    BDI (as in he caused the initial head injury) and P&JDCU (Patsy & John doing the cover-up), with PWRN (Patsy writing the ransom note) all fits with what we know. It also makes sense why the Ramseys stayed together all those years and why they sued anyone at the mention of Burke's name. They never sued Andrew Hodges or anyone else who wrote books saying Patsy did it EXCEPT for Steve Thomas who blew the whistle on the corruption in Boulder and how the Ramseys were given a pass by DA Alex Hunter. The Ramseys hated him for daring to expose why they weren't arrested, as well as the details behind their non-cooperation with the investigation.

    One more thing. Covering up for, and protecting, Burke is what John and Patsy used as a rationale for all the people they've thrown under the bus in the last 15 1/2 years. The Ramseys were trying to save their child, so in their warped and self-righteous minds, the end justified the means. As the farce went on, John and Patsy had to keep up the pretense, and they had to rely on the ridiculous fallacy that JonBenet was meant to die because "she had fulfilled her time on earth" (as they stated in their Hawaii interview). This was the answer to "why" it happened, as John famously asked less than a week after JonBenet's death (after saying they weren't angry with JonBenet's killer). John and Patsy decided they couldn't ever blame Burke for JonBenet's death since it was "an accident," so the "why" was only known to God, and it was up to them to salvage what they could, even if it meant destroying the lives of other innocent people.

    Some people will do anything for their children; even live the most horrendous and twisted lie. And John is still living it.
    Awesome post and I agree with all of it! The only 2 cents I will add is I think John was in on it from the beginning. I don't think he would have said "This has to be an inside job", if it weren't already preplanned to implicate LHP. I don't think he would have said that if he had just figured it out that very morning. It was part of the plan, IMO.
    Last edited by Cherokee; August 22, 2012, 1:49 am at Wed Aug 22 1:49:23 UTC 2012. Reason: to fix Cherokee's typos

  8. #176
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    4,435

    Default

    I'm pretty much with you, Thor--but what the hell could have happened to make him do that?

  9. #177
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    3,481

    Default

    In answer to my earlier post - as to Patsy and John risking that Burke would commit another of these horrible incidents - I'm thinking that maybe they'd already spoken to psychiatrists about it. Maybe they'd been told that kids who do things like this can be cured, can be treated, and that's why they stood behind Burke even though he had just, for all intents and purposes, killed his little sister. Was he in therapy BEFORE that night?

    I just can't see a parent, having found that their older son had just slammed their daughter over the head with a golf club, concocting this huge cover-up, especially if he was also the one molesting her. John called the intruder a "monster" and that is the term that comes to mind, for a 9 year old boy who molests and then assaults his little sister. Why would they risk having this "monster" loose within their family and the larger society?

    I know that it would be horrible, and to put a kid that young into some kind of facility would likely make things worse, so maybe I'd have done the same thing. It's just so hard to imagine the horror of that night. It almost gives me pity for John and Patsy.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  10. #178

    Default

    Remember these three questions?

    Something popped into my head this morning about one of them which continues to puzzle us to this day: what happened between the time of the head blow and the strangulation?

    For the purpose of this discussion, I postulated the theory that it was approx. 90 minutes between the head blow and strangulation. Kolar's book, as well as other expert opinions we've seen through the years, was my source for this timeline.

    So this morning I was pondering something or other about this case involving the lawyers and Hunter and those darn cell phone records...and into my consciousness slipped these thoughts: they certainly are speculative, but may be interesting to consider.

    1. The child's horrific scream heard by the neighbor was from JonBenet, emitted in the seconds after her skull was cracked open and before she collapsed into a coma.

    2. Calls were then made on the cell phone (later said by the Ramseys to have been lost) to perhaps Dr. Beuf, then to a lawyer, possibly Bynum.

    3. Perhaps that lawyer then made some calls, maybe even to Hunter. Calls would have been exchanged back and forth. Finally the Ramseys would have been given "advice" by their lawyer.

    4. Then they proceeded to construct ideas to stage the crime scene as if an intruder had done this. Perhaps they were expecting JonBenet to be dead by that time, or maybe believed she was if her pupils were fixed, at least technically thinking she was brain dead, even if still breathing.

    5. And then one or both used the paintbrush and ligature on her to stage the body to appear that an intruder had done this, because otherwise they'd have to explain the prior molestation, as well as who bludgeoned her.

    That could have been what happened in that time period between the head blow and the strangulation.

    Just some ideas, which I'm not saying are what happened.

    But it would explain the DA obstructing the BPD from getting the phone records and why Patsy told that long, rambling story about JR's "lost" cell phone, which I do not believe for ONE SECOND had any truth to it AT ALL.

    This would also explain the delay from the head blow to the strangulation.

    Or it's just my fervid imagination trying to make sense of the diabolical events of that night.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.



Similar Threads

  1. Critical thinking TIME
    By BobC in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: August 17, 2006, 5:22 pm, Thu Aug 17 17:22:43 UTC 2006
  2. I'm new and got a few questions
    By SSIEGMUND in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: November 5, 2004, 6:06 pm, Fri Nov 5 18:06:33 UTC 2004
  3. Two Questions
    By Moab in forum Miriam Zambie Illes Case Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: February 21, 2004, 11:52 pm, Sat Feb 21 23:52:36 UTC 2004

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •