Page 6 of 15 FirstFirst ... 2345678910 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 72 of 178
  1. #61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    I believe this is why there are marks on JonBenet's back and face from the ends of the train track.

    Burke had heard the crack of JonBenet's skull and saw her fall to the floor after he hit her. Realizing JonBenet's injury was serious, Burke may have yelled at her to get up and tried to rouse her, but she just laid there as if dead. Burke thought if he poked JonBenet with something sharp, she'd react or wake up. He got a train track from the basement floor, and poked, then pushed it into her back and then the lower right side of her face. No reaction. Nothing.

    Panicked, Burke decides JonBenet is dead, and runs upstairs.
    Okay, that's interesting.

    Then what happens for the next 90 minutes? In the house? Burke and/or his parents actions?

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  2. #62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    The last question is really the most important one, isn't it?

    WHERE did it happen? That would go a long way in piecing together the events of the night.
    I think it may have happened in her room or BR's room. I think that is where the molestation took place, and to me, that caused the scream that provoked the head bash. The blood on the pillowcase seems to indicate SOMETHING happened in there. We KNOW she bled, but it was only visible from her vagina. The head bash didn't bleed externally, but some tan-tinged mucus was noted, which could have been blood.

    What happened in the 90 minutes? Well assuming it WAS that long- it really isn't hard to imagine and for what it must have been like in the house at that time wasn't really a long time anyway. Frantic tears and rushing about, certainly PHONE CALLS. Coming up with a plan (fake kidnapping, ransom note) writing the lengthy note, staging her body, placing her in the wineceller, all this in a adrenaline blur. The human body in a high stress situation like that produced huge quantities of adrenaline and cortisol. Adrenaline can enable us to do things we'd never imagine, and it carries us along until whatever we are doing is finished. The effects can't be underestimated.

    How did she get by the paint tray? I believe she was carried down those stairs, as evidenced by the green fake garland in her hair, which I envision happening as she was carried down the spiral stairs which were wound with fake garland. I believe it was JR who carried her. I believe she was put down on the carpet near the paint tote, and left for a little while while they figured out what to do next. She likely appeared dead by then, though she was not. But I do not believe whoever wound that cord knew she was alive and I do not believe it was something BR could have done -alone, anyway. (Patsy had to provide the paintbrush- that is how her fibers got in the tote- and tied the cord. JR was with her. They both had input in the RN, but Patsy physically wrote it.
    After that, she was cleaned up, redressed and put in the WC, with Patsy either getting the panties from the gift box or telling JR where they were. JR puts the panties on her.
    Bottom line- I cannot see BR "helping" his parents stage that body or doing it alone. Parental fibers link them to the body. I think if BR was the one who bashed her, then he was the one who molested her. But his involvement did not include the staging. However- IF the blacked-out name IS BR, and there WERE fibers or other evidence linking him to the body, crime scene or WC, then I'd say JAR (or another male NOT JR) was involved with him in what happened and did most of the staging. But this is not my primary theory for the staging. I really do not think he was there for that.
    Kolar reports that large pj bottoms were found in JB's room, believed to possibly be Burke's. I think he said they had feces in them? (Sorry, I'm burnt to a crisp about now, so someone please correct me if I'm mistaken in this.) I was thinking maybe it was the "pants" on the floor of JB's room. Patsy was asked about by Haney in '98 and he mentioned they had "skid marks" in them?

    I'm a little confused by the qualifiers Kolar used in reporting that potential evidence: it seems it would be quite important info, considering the abuses JB suffered before the night she was killed. I can't imagine a pair of boy's pj bottoms not being labeled as such, with "boy" designs or patterns on them? And if they had underwear in them, wouldn't "boy" underwear be obvious? If they didn't have underwear in them, then the "feces" would be strange indeed.

    I don't know. I can' hardly even write about this element Kolar exposed. Urine soaked sheets; feces on candy in the room; feces in pj bottoms in the room; JB sexually molested for some days or weeks prior to her death; all her constant respiratory illness; vaginitis; bed-wetting and feces in her bed.

    Dear god. What the hell was going on in that family?

    Remember the child abuse specialist who went into the home and observed these red flag elements in JB's room, who then was pulled off the case suddenly?
    Last edited by koldkase; August 18, 2012, 1:06 pm at Sat Aug 18 13:06:52 UTC 2012.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  3. #63

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    This is what I think happened with the marks too. But something else to think about, Kolar said in his book there were also parts of train tracks scattered on Burkes bedroom floor. So that brings me back to where did this originally happen? I still tend to think it originated in the basement and JB caught Burke getting into his birthday presents. Something else about the green garland or needles in her hair, I think that came from the basement wine cellar floor. That is where she was layed and that is where all the Christmas trees were kept. There had to be tons of shed greenery on that floor. I don't believe the blood on JBs pillowcase is a factor in the crime, EXCEPT, that one curtain tieback that is draped over her headboard still bothers me. The other day I read an online article about a child who was killed by the perp bashing her head against the bedpost.
    As usual , I still have no idea what happened.
    I did read this post earlier, Karen, and I agree that the green garland could have gotten in her hair in a number of places around the house. She was also placed under the Christmas tree by Arndt.

    The thing about that blood on the pillowcase is that Patsy was questioned extensively about it by Haney in '98. The bed clothes had been changed within 3 to 5 days before the murder, according to the timeline he could squeeze out of Patsy. I'm sure LE asked Linda H-Pugh about it, because they must have thought it was pretty important to bring it up to Patsy. Of course, Patsy as being as evasive as she could on this point, which is one reason I can't let it go as insignificant. Another red flag.

    Patsy was flat out asked if JB had nosebleeds. She said no, but she might pick at her nose. I don't remember any mention in the autopsy of any scabs or abrasions to JB's nasal passages. She did have blood-tinged mucous dried on her face, and a droplet had made it to her upper right sleeve, the same side her face was turned to when she was brought up from the basement with rigor mortis.

    It is still hard to know what the heck happened. I have about a thousand questions, still.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    3,481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Kolar reports that large pj bottoms were found in JB's room, believed to possibly be Burke's. I think he said they had feces in them? (Sorry, I'm burnt to a crisp about now, so someone please correct me if I'm mistaken in this.) I was thinking maybe it was the "pants" on the floor of JB's room. Patsy was asked about by Haney in '98 and he mentioned they had "skid marks" in them?

    I'm a little confused by the qualifiers Kolar used in reporting that potential evidence: it seems it would be quite important info, considering the abuses JB suffered before the night she was killed. I can't imagine a pair of boy's pj bottoms not being labeled as such, with "boy" designs or patterns on them? And if they had underwear in them, wouldn't "boy" underwear be obvious? If they didn't have underwear in them, then the "feces" would be strange indeed.

    I don't know. I can' hardly even write about this element Kolar exposed. Urine soaked sheets; feces on candy in the room; feces in pj bottoms in the room; JB sexually molested for some days or weeks prior to her death; all her constant respiratory illness; vaginitis; bed-wetting and feces in her bed.

    Dear god. What the hell was going on in that family?

    Remember the child abuse specialist who went into the home and observed these red flag elements in JB's room, who then was pulled off the case suddenly?
    No, I don't remember that. When was that? Is there a thread about it?
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  5. #65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Kolar reports that large pj bottoms were found in JB's room, believed to possibly be Burke's. I think he said they had feces in them? (Sorry, I'm burnt to a crisp about now, so someone please correct me if I'm mistaken in this.) I was thinking maybe it was the "pants" on the floor of JB's room. Patsy was asked about by Haney in '98 and he mentioned they had "skid marks" in them?

    I'm a little confused by the qualifiers Kolar used in reporting that potential evidence: it seems it would be quite important info, considering the abuses JB suffered before the night she was killed. I can't imagine a pair of boy's pj bottoms not being labeled as such, with "boy" designs or patterns on them? And if they had underwear in them, wouldn't "boy" underwear be obvious? If they didn't have underwear in them, then the "feces" would be strange indeed.

    I don't know. I can' hardly even write about this element Kolar exposed. Urine soaked sheets; feces on candy in the room; feces in pj bottoms in the room; JB sexually molested for some days or weeks prior to her death; all her constant respiratory illness; vaginitis; bed-wetting and feces in her bed.

    Dear god. What the hell was going on in that family?

    Remember the child abuse specialist who went into the home and observed these red flag elements in JB's room, who then was pulled off the case suddenly?
    I'm still waiting to see if you use the term "bottom line" again while talking about BR's skid-marked PJs like you did in Post 60.

    (Where's the smilie for :ROFL:?)

  6. #66

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Something else I've been wondering and I'll see if I can articulate it.
    The cord around Jonbenets neck was extremely tight. But the cord tied around her wrists was extremely loose. If it was all staging then why pull the cord around her neck that tight and then leave the wrist cords so loose? If for example, JR or PR put that cord around her neck thinking she was already dead then why so tight??... when the wrist bindings were so loose? Something is off about this and it doesn't make sense to me.
    Maybe you missed wombat's response to your post, Karen, because it wasn't quoted? But it was directly afterward, so I believe it was relating to your post:



    #34
    August 16, 2012, 9:10 am, Thu Aug 16 9:10:24 CDT 2012
    wombat
    Member

    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Posts: 754

    A long time ago EasyWriter and I got into a kerfuffle with some others about the "garrotte" - the loop around her throat was static, the knot couldn't slide. If the perpetrator pulled on the cord, it would not tighten but rather come away from her nneck on one side, like when you walk your dog. I think the sloppiness of the garrotte and bindings just point to a clumsy amateur.
    You know, something just popped into my head about the ligature.

    Some of us are speculating on Burke using that to silence his sister, to hide his attack on her? That's the train of thought I have been following, anyway.

    But if he were truly trying to hide hitting his sister and causing her to become unresponsive, tying a ligature on her would surely be the absolute proof he had done it, as far as his parents were concerned, wouldn't it?

    If she's just lying there, and there's no bleeding, but Burke struck the blow and heard the loud crack of her skull; if he's decided to run to bed and hide from what he did, hoping his parents would think she fell or something, then why would he prove to them it was him by tying a garrote on her and strangling her?

    Unless someone wants to make the argument it was all Burke; he staged everything, including the ransom note, to cover his own actions?

    I know the opinions expressed for the most part are he couldn't have done all of the staging; he was developmentally too young to write the ransom note, and he couldn't have picked her body up and put it in the cellar room--though apparently him possibly dragging it is on the table?

    But then there is what John said (allegedly): he didn't mean to hurt her, he wrapped her in a blanket?

    Oh. What if Burke took the blanket to her wherever she fell and lay still? Trying to wake her up? Comfort her? That might not have been in the cellar room. Maybe that's why the stagers used it, though?

    Blood on the gown. Burke and Patsy's DNA on the gown.

    Blood on the pillowcase. The blanket was not on the bed, and the bed appeared to have been made up without it, according to Haney in '98; even Patsy agreed. We can see in the crime scene photos of the bed it has the sheets and comforter in place as we'd expect after being slept in but unmade.

    Maybe Burke pulled the blanket out of the dryer and put it on JB on her bed, where she lay, trying to "undo" what he'd done?

    Maybe she was wearing that gown.

    Burke's pj's on the floor?

    Okay, gotta think about this.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  7. #67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by otg View Post
    I'm still waiting to see if you use the term "bottom line" again while talking about BR's skid-marked PJs like you did in Post 60.

    (Where's the smilie for :ROFL:?)
    Oh no. I didn't....

    The smilie for that is colon, floor, colon.

    Don't ask, cause I just lay around in the guttah here....

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Salzburg/Austria
    Posts
    55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post

    Oh. What if Burke took the blanket to her wherever she fell and lay still? Trying to wake her up? Comfort her? That might not have been in the cellar room. Maybe that's why the stagers used it, though?
    Maybe he took blanket AND pillowcase and the blood was transferred there. But then the pillowcase was placed back on the bed...

  9. #69

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    No, I don't remember that. When was that? Is there a thread about it?
    It was way back. I'll see if I can find it again.

    While I'm at it, you mentioned a report with a name "blacked out," but I'm drawing a blank on which report. I probably have just forgotten, but can you refresh my memory?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    [snip]

    Bottom line- I cannot see BR "helping" his parents stage that body or doing it alone. Parental fibers link them to the body. I think if BR was the one who bashed her, then he was the one who molested her. But his involvement did not include the staging. However- IF the blacked-out name IS BR, and there WERE fibers or other evidence linking him to the body, crime scene or WC, then I'd say JAR (or another male NOT JR) was involved with him in what happened and did most of the staging. But this is not my primary theory for the staging. I really do not think he was there for that.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  10. #70

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    No, I don't remember that. When was that? Is there a thread about it?
    There was an article written about it that is still posted in "some" forums. Holly Smith was her name. I won't link to one of the forums, but you can find the article by searching:
    http://www.google.com/search?q=JonBe...-a&channel=rcs

  11. #71

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickii View Post
    Maybe he took blanket AND pillowcase and the blood was transferred there. But then the pillowcase was placed back on the bed...
    Oh, good point. That would make sense.

    It would make even more sense if she were on the floor somewhere near her bed/bedroom, rather than on the bed where she already had covers. There was a washer/dryer unit outside there, and for some reason it's often speculated the blanket came out of the dryer, maybe with the gown clinging to it.

    Did we ever know if Patsy washed those things upstairs or in the basement?

    If in the basement, then that might be a good indicator right there where the head blow happened: if Burke put the blanket over her after hitting her down there.

    If upstairs, then it would make sense he got the blanket out of the dryer there, and maybe the pillow.

    OH! Haven't we discussed how odd it was that the pillow is on THE WRONG END OF THE BED?

    Gosh. That would explain that...at long last.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  12. #72

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by otg View Post
    There was an article written about it that is still posted in "some" forums. Holly Smith was her name. I won't link to one of the forums, but you can find the article by searching:
    http://www.google.com/search?q=JonBe...-a&channel=rcs
    Yes, that's the one. Thanks so much. I"m sure it's actually here somewhere. But I have trouble with the FFJ search engine for some reason--it never turns up what I'm looking for.

    I would bet the farm ACR has it.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.



Similar Threads

  1. Critical thinking TIME
    By BobC in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: August 17, 2006, 5:22 pm, Thu Aug 17 17:22:43 UTC 2006
  2. I'm new and got a few questions
    By SSIEGMUND in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: November 5, 2004, 6:06 pm, Fri Nov 5 18:06:33 UTC 2004
  3. Two Questions
    By Moab in forum Miriam Zambie Illes Case Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: February 21, 2004, 11:52 pm, Sat Feb 21 23:52:36 UTC 2004

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •