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  1. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    I agree. If BR tied the ligature, he did so without gloves. We now know the ligature was tested for DNA thanks to Kolar's book (we all figured as much, no?).
    So, I have to believe if BR tied the ligature, his DNA should have been on that cord because who ever tied it, and pulled it, had to leave some DNA on there unless they were wearing gloves. I'm thinking it's better, since Patsy's fibers were all over the place, to stick with her being there when the ligature was tightened.

    I wonder if Kolar's theory includes Burke tightening the ligature? If so, how does he explain his DNA not being on the cord? Is it possible he's not letting us know it was? I doubt it but, if his theory does include BR as the perp, then, he might not want to let that info out..just thinking....
    Kolar is holding his cards close to the vest. In the Peter Boyles interview, he all but states he doesn't want to get sued.

    I know there is still info we don't know, but Kolar did say Burke's and Patsy's DNA were on the gown. Why wouldn't he tell us if either was on the ligatures? He tells us of unsourced DNA on the wrist and neck ligatures.

    Since the Ramseys made a big deal out of that not being their cord, of the "intruder" bringing it in, I think finding their DNA on it would have been pretty significant.

    Not that Team Ramsey (meaning Lacy and Hunter) would have felt it was important....

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  2. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    I personally think Burke Ramsey was far too young to help with any of the staging DeeDee I cannot see this scene happening either! Plus, in spite of the garland in JonBenét's hair I think it would have been awkward for John Ramsey to have carried JB down the spiral staircase, while there was a more practical one available (?).

    I agree with your thinking "those" involved in the staging thought she was dead.
    Now there's something I hadn't really connected before. Not only would the front stairway have been easier and more practical to carry a child down, but the door to the basement was much closer to that stairway. Practically at the end of it, near the front door.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  3. #75

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    So here's the crime scene photo of the bed. Haney made the point the bed didn't look as if the blanket had been "pulled" from the covers, which would have disturbed the other bedding, and Patsy agreed. Sort of.



    Let me get the interview where they discussed this. BRB

    Okay, here is the Q & A: notice the position of the pj top, which Patsy says would have been under the pillow--that is where the pillow should have been. But it's at the foot of the bed.

    Also notice they agree the bed appeared to be "made" without the blanket. So the blanket would have come from SOMEWHERE ELSE--maybe a dryer, maybe a linen closet? Oh, that's important, isn't it? Because I'm thinking you nailed it, Nickii: the blanket and pillow were taken to her for comfort. That's why the pillow is back on the bed, tossed at the bottom, not in the place it should have been.

    And the blanket was used to lay her on and wrap her, "caring" by someone who loved her.

    16 TRIP DeMUTH: You can see it better
    17 on photo 3.
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, okay. That's
    19 the -- looks like a little pink pajama top, with
    20 long underwear.

    21 THOMAS HANEY: Was that part of a
    22 set of --
    23 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
    24 THOMAS HANEY: -- tops and bottoms?
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: Top and bottom,
    0244
    1 yeah.
    2 THOMAS HANEY: And that, does that
    3 appear to be one or the other?
    4 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks sort of
    5 like the top, because there is a little tag,
    6 might be at the neck, you know. It may be
    7 inside-out.
    8 THOMAS HANEY: And if you can, do
    9 you know when JonBenet would have last worn
    10 that?
    11 PATSY RAMSEY: I know she wore it,
    12 she had this on Christmas Day.
    13 THOMAS HANEY: Okay.
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: You know, like when
    15 you get up for Santa Claus.
    16 THOMAS HANEY: Okay.
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: That day.
    18 THOMAS HANEY: All right.
    19 PATSY RAMSEY: She did not wear it
    20 Christmas night, you know.
    21 THOMAS HANEY: So when you put her
    22 to bed, on Christmas night, do you recall, would
    23 that or could that have been in the bed?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: It could have been
    25 under the pillow or something, you know.
    0245

    1 THOMAS HANEY: Was there a regular
    2 routine with dirty laundry or a hamper or toss
    3 it out the door to the laundry area or --
    4 PATSY RAMSEY: (Shaking head.) No.
    5 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. So it
    6 wouldn't be unusual for it --
    7 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it was
    8 definitely under the pillow, right.

    9 THOMAS HANEY: Okay, if we can go
    10 back to photo number of 2 so we don't jump too
    11 far ahead. It looks like there is a bedspread,
    12 I guess it's kind of a light --
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: (Mumbling.)
    14 THOMAS HANEY: Whatever color that
    15 is. It appears to be covering about half, maybe
    16 a little bit more than half, fairly well
    17 distributed as far as hanging over the bed down
    18 to the --
    19 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
    20 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. It doesn't
    21 appear that if there had been a blanket under
    22 that or anything, that anything was pulled out
    23 from --
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, I see what you
    25 mean. Uh-hum.
    0246
    1 (Witness mumbling into hand.)
    2 (INAUDIBLE.)
    3 TRIP DeMUTH: How was her blanket
    4 on the bed?
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: Normally it was made
    6 and it would be the fitted sheet and there was
    7 usually a top sheet. Kind of a bed sheet, you
    8 know.
    9 TRIP DeMUTH: Pointing to photo 3.
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: There was a top
    11 sheet and then there was her blanket, this
    12 cotton blanket.
    13 THOMAS HANEY: And could you
    14 describe that?
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: I think it was kind
    16 of whitish, loose weave, you know. Kind of
    17 crocheted looking sort of, and that would have
    18 been, you know, all that stuff tucked in under
    19 the bed and then this is a comforter that just
    20 lays on top. You know. Hangs down to the --
    21 just over the dust ruffle.
    22 THOMAS HANEY: So that lighter
    23 blanket that you talked about would have been
    24 tucked in between the mattress and the box
    25 spring?
    0247
    1 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum. Oh, you
    2 mean -- you know how you make it, tuck it right
    3 here, you know.
    4 TRIP DeMUTH: Under the mattress?
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, right, so it
    6 doesn't pull out.
    7 TRIP DeMUTH: So the blanket would
    8 have been tucked all the way down to the foot of
    9 the bed.
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Correct, under
    11 this, under that.
    12 TRIP DeMUTH: Then the bedspread
    13 looks like it's properly and evenly distributed
    14 at the foot of the bed?
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: You're right.

    16 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you see the
    17 blanket in there at all?
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: No. No.
    19 TRIP DeMUTH: She didn't, the
    20 blanket never worked itself out and laid loose
    21 on top of the bed, did it?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, sometimes.
    23 TRIP DeMUTH: You know, completely
    24 untucked, that's what I am asking. Do you know
    25 how JonBenet slept, if that was a normal
    0248
    1 practice or was it tucked in?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, something
    3 that kind of heavy, you know, this was fairly
    4 heavy. It was -- it would be unlikely that it
    5 would be completely out, without being pulled
    6 out.
    7 TRIP DeMUTH: Without the bedspread
    8 being disturbed also?
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I would think.
    10 THOMAS HANEY: When you put
    11 JonBenet to bed on Christmas night, was that
    12 lightweight blanket in the bed?
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I
    14 can't say for sure.
    15 THOMAS HANEY: Take a second and go
    16 back to that routine that night of --
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, God. I can't
    18 remember exactly.
    19 THOMAS HANEY: But it should have
    20 been?
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: Should have been.
    22 THOMAS HANEY: Or would have been
    23 probably?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably.

    25 TRIP DeMUTH: What about the pillow
    0249
    1 at the foot of the bed, is that --
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    3 THOMAS HANEY: Did she use a
    4 pillow? Some people do, some don't.
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: No, no, she did.
    6 TRIP DeMUTH: I mean the way the
    7 sweater is thrown at the foot of the bed is not
    8 unusual, right?
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    10 TRIP DeMUTH: She would have done
    11 that?
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    13 TRIP DeMUTH: Did she ever put her
    14 pillow at the foot of the bed, would that be
    15 usual or unusual?
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: That would be
    17 unusual.

    18 TRIP DeMUTH: What about the way
    19 that is generally made, did she make her bed?
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    21 TRIP DeMUTH: Was it usually in
    22 this condition, other than what you see with the
    23 pillow there?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean, an unmade
    25 bed is an unmade bed. I mean --
    0250
    1 TRIP DeMUTH: Nothing strikes you
    2 as being unusual about that, other than the
    3 blanket and the pillow?
    4 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    So now the intruder not only vacuums up the window glass in the basement, but he makes beds, too?

    No wonder IDIs think it was the maid.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  4. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickii View Post
    Maybe he took blanket AND pillowcase and the blood was transferred there. But then the pillowcase was placed back on the bed...
    Did I say good point?

    What I meant was...

    BRILLIANT!!

    I think you've cracked it!

    BECAUSE...why would either of the parents take a pillow from the bed TO the injured child?

    Why wouldn't they just pick her up and take her to the bed? Or a couch?

    But...Burke couldn't carry her.

    This would, once again, lead me to Burke being the one who struck the head blow. Especially with what Father Holverstock repeated from JR's statement: "He didn't mean to hurt her...." Then something about using the blanket to keep her warm?

    Oh, my brain is humming.

    Thinking...thinking....

    Okay, y'all think a while. I have to take a break.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  5. #77

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    Did I say "take a break"?

    Yeah, right.

    From Kolar's book, page 88:

    Father Rol Holverstock, pastor at the St. Johns Episcopalian
    Church, had been called to the Ramsey home on the morning
    of December 26th by John Fernie. The Fernies had earlier
    recruited the Ramseys to the church, and the pastor was well
    known to Patsy.

    Interviewed by detectives on December 30th, Father
    Holverstock indicated that he had been summoned to the home to
    help calm Patsy, and estimated that he had arrived between 6:30
    and 7:00 a.m. He described his observations of the activities
    taking place at the time of the discovery of JonBenét’s body.

    Father Holverstock advised he had been heating a glass of
    water in the kitchen microwave when things began to happen.
    Fleet White had a look on his face that he’d “never seen before,”
    and racing past him through the kitchen, exclaimed that JonBenét
    had been found.

    The next thing he knew, he was standing in the foyer area
    near the top of the basement stairs, and John Ramsey had his
    daughter in his hands. It was Holverstock’s recollection that
    Ramsey blurted out, “I don’t think he meant to kill her, because
    she was wrapped in a blanket,” or that “she was warm, she was
    wrapped in a blanket.”
    Okay, talk me down.

    Because if Burke was the one who put the blanket on JonBenet, and John thought Burke didn't mean to kill her, then SHE SURELY DIDN'T HAVE THE LIGATURE ON HER NECK WHEN SHE WAS FOUND.

    Right?

    Because that would be pretty good evidence he exactly meant to kill her--tying a cord around her neck and pulling until she was dead.

    So if 90 minutes elapsed between the head blow and the strangulation, and Burke had time to get her pillow and a blanket and cover her, "undoing" the deed in his mind...then who found her/them?

    "We're not talking to you."

    "What did you find?"

    So back to this: did she fall by the paint tray? Did Burke then tie the ligature on her and pull it?

    But Patsy's fibers are tied into the knots. The duct tape she could have been there to apply as staging, just like JR's shirt fibers could have been from cleaning, redressing for staging...but the knots are very incriminating.

    OTG, didn't you say Burke had tied cord on JB's neck before, leading her around like a dog leash? Can you give me the source for that? It wasn't the LE interviews, was it?

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
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  6. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    (snipped)
    OTG, didn't you say Burke had tied cord on JB's neck before, leading her around like a dog leash? Can you give me the source for that? It wasn't the LE interviews, was it?
    I have been looking and looking to try and find the original source for that, KoldKase. Seems like I read about it somewhat recently on one of the forums, because at the time it just really struck me as something immensely significant under the circumstances, and I couldn't believe I hadn't heard about it before. I want to say it was in one of the police interviews or in the Bonita Papers, but I haven't found it yet. All I found so far was about JonBenet and Daphne "playing kitty" by walking around on all fours. I'm not sure, but I believe it was DeeDee who I first heard mention it. Maybe she will remember the original source.

  7. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by otg View Post
    I have been looking and looking to try and find the original source for that, KoldKase. Seems like I read about it somewhat recently on one of the forums, because at the time it just really struck me as something immensely significant under the circumstances, and I couldn't believe I hadn't heard about it before. I want to say it was in one of the police interviews or in the Bonita Papers, but I haven't found it yet. All I found so far was about JonBenet and Daphne "playing kitty" by walking around on all fours. I'm not sure, but I believe it was DeeDee who I first heard mention it. Maybe she will remember the original source.
    Patsy told the investigators about JB and her friend "playing kitty". Of course we don't know the expression on the investigators' faces, but if these were men who did not have little girls themselves they might have looked at Patsy with puzzled expressions. Patsy then made an odd comment- she said "OH, you don't like kitty?" But the investigators had not said anything,
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  8. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Maybe you missed wombat's response to your post, Karen, because it wasn't quoted? But it was directly afterward, so I believe it was relating to your post:





    You know, something just popped into my head about the ligature.

    Some of us are speculating on Burke using that to silence his sister, to hide his attack on her? That's the train of thought I have been following, anyway.

    But if he were truly trying to hide hitting his sister and causing her to become unresponsive, tying a ligature on her would surely be the absolute proof he had done it, as far as his parents were concerned, wouldn't it?

    If she's just lying there, and there's no bleeding, but Burke struck the blow and heard the loud crack of her skull; if he's decided to run to bed and hide from what he did, hoping his parents would think she fell or something, then why would he prove to them it was him by tying a garrote on her and strangling her?

    Unless someone wants to make the argument it was all Burke; he staged everything, including the ransom note, to cover his own actions?

    I know the opinions expressed for the most part are he couldn't have done all of the staging; he was developmentally too young to write the ransom note, and he couldn't have picked her body up and put it in the cellar room--though apparently him possibly dragging it is on the table?

    But then there is what John said (allegedly): he didn't mean to hurt her, he wrapped her in a blanket?

    Oh. What if Burke took the blanket to her wherever she fell and lay still? Trying to wake her up? Comfort her? That might not have been in the cellar room. Maybe that's why the stagers used it, though?

    Blood on the gown. Burke and Patsy's DNA on the gown.

    Blood on the pillowcase. The blanket was not on the bed, and the bed appeared to have been made up without it, according to Haney in '98; even Patsy agreed. We can see in the crime scene photos of the bed it has the sheets and comforter in place as we'd expect after being slept in but unmade.

    Maybe Burke pulled the blanket out of the dryer and put it on JB on her bed, where she lay, trying to "undo" what he'd done?

    Maybe she was wearing that gown.

    Burke's pj's on the floor?

    Okay, gotta think about this.
    My only point about the ligature around her neck being tight and the wrist ligatures being loose was that the wrist ligatures look like staging and the neck ligature does not. It looks to me like it was meant to do what it did, no matter how it was constructed or used. It was too tight be be staging.

  9. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Did I say "take a break"?

    Yeah, right.

    From Kolar's book, page 88:



    Okay, talk me down.

    Because if Burke was the one who put the blanket on JonBenet, and John thought Burke didn't mean to kill her, then SHE SURELY DIDN'T HAVE THE LIGATURE ON HER NECK WHEN SHE WAS FOUND.

    Right?

    Because that would be pretty good evidence he exactly meant to kill her--tying a cord around her neck and pulling until she was dead.

    So if 90 minutes elapsed between the head blow and the strangulation, and Burke had time to get her pillow and a blanket and cover her, "undoing" the deed in his mind...then who found her/them?

    "We're not talking to you."

    "What did you find?"

    So back to this: did she fall by the paint tray? Did Burke then tie the ligature on her and pull it?

    But Patsy's fibers are tied into the knots. The duct tape she could have been there to apply as staging, just like JR's shirt fibers could have been from cleaning, redressing for staging...but the knots are very incriminating.

    OTG, didn't you say Burke had tied cord on JB's neck before, leading her around like a dog leash? Can you give me the source for that? It wasn't the LE interviews, was it?
    You may be on to something here, kk, with this "what did you find" thoughts.
    If BR nailed her and comforted her with a blanket, etc., and went off to bed, it would explain his question and John's answer. "Well, what did you find?" "We're not speaking to you!" Sure would love to hear that enhanced Aerospace tape.

    I think JB was hit in some room where there wasn't carpet. I can't let go of this lint and dust being on JBR's feet. I believe this is one reason ST thinks she was injured in the bathroom during a bed wetting incident. He mentions this lint and dust in his book...there's a reason I think. Have you ever walked across a dirty wood or kitchen floor and step on some cookie crumbs or residue? Dust will generally stick to your feet but I wouldn't think so much when you're standing on carpet unless that basement carpet was really dirty.

    At any rate, I need some help here. JBR was photographed, on Christmas morning, in longjohns without any socks..standing with bare feet. Now.
    We are told that JBR was cleaned and redressed after death. If longjohns were removed (and they had to be if new underpants were placed on), then, wouldn't the removing and replacing of longjohns on JBR have removed the dust and lint from the bottoms of her feet? The longjohns have a small leg opening which fits tight around the ankle..If you remove these longjohns, then, it would rub tightly against the soles of her feet, no? Same goes for putting longjohns on.

    This makes me wonder. Was JBR dressed for bed with pullups on, large panties on over the pullups and then longjohns on over these items???? If she was molested and bled, maybe she bled onto the pullups, these were torn off and flushed and the large panties placed back without having to remove the longjohns?

    Can anyone correct me if I have the evidence wrong?

  10. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    My only point about the ligature around her neck being tight and the wrist ligatures being loose was that the wrist ligatures look like staging and the neck ligature does not. It looks to me like it was meant to do what it did, no matter how it was constructed or used. It was too tight be be staging.
    Yes, I completely agree with that.

    People argue and theorize all kinds of things about the ligature around the neck; I personally think it was as straightforward as it looks. It was tied with a slipknot, which Kolar has confirmed, and when pulled it rolled up the neck, rolling the necklace into the cord as it tightened. The purple bruise on the left is from that--I think someone called it "blood pooling." We have autopsy photos of other strangulation victims who had very similar bruising in the same spot on the neck.

    I don't know what to make of the "petechial hemorrhages" on the neck, though; some people are convinced there are "fingernail" gouges on the neck from JonBenet, including Chief Kolar. That did surprise me when he wrote that, because I always thought that was another Lou Smit fabrication. The metal necklace, with the cross, caused some gouges, I think--you can even see they are not "fingernail" arcs, but just irregular gouges. At least, that's been my interpretation. So I have to wonder if Kolar got the "fingernail marks" from Smit or from medical reports based on the autopsy?

    It's very important, after all. If those are fingernail gouges, then the cord was applied BEFORE the head blow.

    Very important.

    I'm just not sold yet, because so much misinformation about that ligature and its function has been floated through the last 15 years.

    I want the dead certain, no guesses or speculation, medical determination: were there marks on her neck where she tried to get the ligature off, or not?

    I think this should have been easy to determine, as well: did she have her own flesh under her fingernails, where she'd scratched her neck that night?

    VERY IMPORTANT.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
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  11. #83
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    Learning :


    At any rate, I need some help here. JBR was photographed, on Christmas morning, in longjohns without any socks..standing with bare feet. Now.
    We are told that JBR was cleaned and redressed after death. If longjohns were removed (and they had to be if new underpants were placed on), then, wouldn't the removing and replacing of longjohns on JBR have removed the dust and lint from the bottoms of her feet? The longjohns have a small leg opening which fits tight around the ankle..If you remove these longjohns, then, it would rub tightly against the soles of her feet, no? Same goes for putting longjohns on.
    I'm thinking there's a long gap between Christmas morning, Learnin until JonBenét was back into her jammies. JonBenét was dressed for playing throughout Christmas day, until redressed again to attend the White's party. That lint would have been long gone by then with all the playing and walking around on Christmas day wearing her socks and shoes.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  12. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    You may be on to something here, kk, with this "what did you find" thoughts.
    If BR nailed her and comforted her with a blanket, etc., and went off to bed, it would explain his question and John's answer. "Well, what did you find?" "We're not speaking to you!" Sure would love to hear that enhanced Aerospace tape.

    I think JB was hit in some room where there wasn't carpet. I can't let go of this lint and dust being on JBR's feet. I believe this is one reason ST thinks she was injured in the bathroom during a bed wetting incident. He mentions this lint and dust in his book...there's a reason I think. Have you ever walked across a dirty wood or kitchen floor and step on some cookie crumbs or residue? Dust will generally stick to your feet but I wouldn't think so much when you're standing on carpet unless that basement carpet was really dirty.

    At any rate, I need some help here. JBR was photographed, on Christmas morning, in longjohns without any socks..standing with bare feet. Now.
    We are told that JBR was cleaned and redressed after death. If longjohns were removed (and they had to be if new underpants were placed on), then, wouldn't the removing and replacing of longjohns on JBR have removed the dust and lint from the bottoms of her feet? The longjohns have a small leg opening which fits tight around the ankle..If you remove these longjohns, then, it would rub tightly against the soles of her feet, no? Same goes for putting longjohns on.

    This makes me wonder. Was JBR dressed for bed with pullups on, large panties on over the pullups and then longjohns on over these items???? If she was molested and bled, maybe she bled onto the pullups, these were torn off and flushed and the large panties placed back without having to remove the longjohns?

    Can anyone correct me if I have the evidence wrong?
    This is an interesting thought.

    That gown in the cellar room is a problem, though; it could be nothing but a red herring, of course. Some think it just clung to the blanket when that was retrieved. Some think she might have worn it and it got stained with her blood, so it was put in the basement with the blanket to keep it with the rest of the crime scene. Some think it was put with her because it was her "favorite," according to Aunt Polly, though Patsy claimed to have no idea about that, couldn't even recognize it. But Patsy's DNA (and Burke's) was on it, so my theory holds there: that when Patsy denied something obvious, she was lying for a reason.

    But now I'm looking at John's statement, attributed to him by the pastor when John brought the body up, and it reads another way: “I don’t think he meant to kill her, because she was wrapped in a blanket,” or that “she was warm, she was wrapped in a blanket.”

    Now I'm thinking it sounds like JR attempting to explain that she was wrapped in the blanket in the cellar room. Since JR "found" her, he left behind the blanket when he brought her up. No one but he and Fleet White had seen the blanket at that point.

    So had John been a stager in the cellar room and, having to "find" her since the search by LE or the friends had been called off at the home hours before, as the "kidnapping" note had worked TOO well by that point, he then felt compelled in his panic to explain the staging others couldn't see?

    But does he tip his hand in his extemporaneous attempt to explain what he could not possibly understand at that point, if he'd truly just found his child's body? "HE" didn't mean to kill her? How would JR have any idea AT ALL what the killer/intruder meant, with his child's stiff body in his hands, having "just" found her?

    But I've strayed from your topic, Learnin, sorry. I do that.

    I wish we had a copy of that report of the lint and dirt on the feet. You're right, it might tell us she was walking in the cellar room, at least since her last bath--whenever that might have been.

    I've been wondering if they found lint and/or dirt on the pillowcase from the basement carpet or cellar room, either.

    I've also been thinking if LE did test these items and they do know that pillow had been removed from the bed and later replaced, with JB's blood on it, then they may know exactly to which room it was taken.

    In fact, it has occurred to me that someone MAY have known for a very long time who the Ramseys called that night and that the DA was helping them.

    Think about it: someone in the BDA's Office prosecuted the James Rapp, illegal gathering of information case. That's where the Ramseys' credit card and phone records were collected illegally, perhaps before they were mysteriously rendered "blank" for the month of Dec. Someone investigated that, as well. So they saw those records, for the Rapp case.

    Okay, going off on another tangent. Need more coffee....
    Last edited by koldkase; August 19, 2012, 1:06 pm at Sun Aug 19 13:06:45 UTC 2012.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.



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