Page 9 of 15 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 ... LastLast
Results 97 to 108 of 178
  1. #97
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In the Federal Witness Protection Program
    Posts
    1,311

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Ah, thank you, Cherokee!

    So that makes much more sense. She had on both the longjohns and Bloomies when her bladder released.

    Learnin, you asked about blood on the carpet outside the cellar room, in the urine there? It's a good question. If they tested to see if it was JB's urine, seems they would have found her blood in it, as well.

    Okay, what's the biology of determining whose urine it is? (I can't believe I'm asking these questions.)

    Seems I once read that it was only identifiable with skin cells sloughed off, same with mucous.

    In the case of the urine outside the cellar door, perhaps it included blood DNA, blood cells actually containing DNA?

    But as far as I remember, no one has ever stated what the lab report of that stain specifically was, just the conclusion.
    She may NOT have had the size 12 panties on when her bladder released. They may have gotten wet with urine from simply being placed under the already-wet longjohns. But not wet enough to cause the blood stains to bleed into the longjohns as well. Water mixes molecules. It is why my Jewish friends tell me in a Kosher house the same dishwasher or sink cannot be used to wash dishes that have served both meat and dairy.
    The absence of blood on the longjohns when blood is in the panties is hard to explain if they were both on when her bladder voided.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  2. #98

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    She may NOT have had the size 12 panties on when her bladder released. They may have gotten wet with urine from simply being placed under the already-wet longjohns. But not wet enough to cause the blood stains to bleed into the longjohns as well. Water mixes molecules. It is why my Jewish friends tell me in a Kosher house the same dishwasher or sink cannot be used to wash dishes that have served both meat and dairy.
    The absence of blood on the longjohns when blood is in the panties is hard to explain if they were both on when her bladder voided.
    Dang. See this is why we need some CSI reading these reports, laying it out.

    This is why I say SURELY in 15 years, with $2 million spent in this investigation, THEY HAVE TO KNOW THESE ANSWERS!

    Thank you, DeeDee. They should hire you to solve this case!

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  3. #99

    Default

    This thread is going off in all different directions but I just wanted to jump in here and say Patsy said in one of her police interviews that Jonbenet slept in Burkes room on Christmas Eve. So the pj's she was wearing in that Christmas morning photo are obviously the ones she wore while sleeping in Burkes room Christmas Eve. How many people following this case really believe Jonbenet would put those pj's under her pillow on Christmas day when she got dressed? No, they would fall where they dropped. That pj top looks like it was flung on to the bed when she got dressed. For someone who never made her own bed there's no way she would take the time to put her pj's under the pillow. So IMO this is yet another lie by Patsy when she says she was searching under JB's pillow for the pj's she wore the night before. They were not there and she knew it.
    And where are the bottoms? In the photo her bottoms don't look pink to me. They look like white longjohns with some kind of pattern on them. I don't see anything like that in any crime scene photo we have access to. So where are the pj bottoms? Were those flung off somewhere also? My best guess is they are probably in the bathroom somewhere and we just can't see them in any photo we've seen. But I don't see them mentioned anywhere in any search documents, books or interviews either. The mysterious disappearing pj bottoms, never to be mentioned again. If she had wet them she would not be wearing them again the following night so it makes sense she would pull out a different pair, (and this time it was again thermal longjohn bottoms, coincidence?)to wear.
    I wonder if the blow to the head happened when Jonbenet was halfway dressed in her pj's. Maybe she had gotten her bottoms on but hadn't changed her top yet when she was struck?

  4. #100

    Default

    Good point about JB sleeping in Burke's room Christmas Eve.

    But there's the same problem: we only have Patsy's word on that.

    I am beginning to wonder if Patsy Ramsey ever said a thing that wasn't a lie.

    Wading through the lies alone is like being in quicksand: the more you struggle, the deeper you go.

    Sorry I'm running off topic. I do still see these related to the three original questions, though. It all runs together, like the links in a chain.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  5. #101
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    8,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    The only reason I mentioned Christmas morning, Elle, is to point out that JBR, obviously, didn't wear socks to bed and would run around the house without socks on. Since she had dust on the soles of her feet, at autopsy, it's safe to assume she was dressed in sleeping attire that fateful night before first blow was struck. In other words, it indicates to me that JBR didn't come in the house, eat some pineapple, and get struck before going up stairs and getting dressed for bed.
    When our minds start going they turn and twist, Learnin don't they? Thanks for responding! Now I can let this blow in the wind.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  6. #102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Good point about JB sleeping in Burke's room Christmas Eve.

    But there's the same problem: we only have Patsy's word on that.

    I am beginning to wonder if Patsy Ramsey ever said a thing that wasn't a lie.

    Wading through the lies alone is like being in quicksand: the more you struggle, the deeper you go.

    Sorry I'm running off topic. I do still see these related to the three original questions, though. It all runs together, like the links in a chain.
    I understand that koldkase but if we are going to cherrypick which statements of Patsys we believe and which ones we don't we are going to 1. lose a lot of our evidence and 2. choose only to believe what fits our theory and discount the rest.
    Of course there are the obvious lies like Jonbenet was zonked and didn't eat pineapple.
    But then there are the statements that Patsy put the longjohns on Jonebent that night because she couldn't find the pj's she wore the night before. Everybody is choosing to believe Patsy put those longjohns on her Christmas night.
    Why believe that and not believe Jonbenet slept in Burkes room Christmas Eve?
    Kolar knows, because he has seen the GJ testimony and I'm sure BURKE was asked if she slept in his room Christmas Eve.
    Burke is the only one who could tell us if that is another Patsy lie or not.
    How are we to ever form a cohiesive all inclusive theory?

  7. #103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    For the record, the oversized Bloomie panties on JonBenet WERE urine stained according to the autopsy report.

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/library/autopsy.pdf

    "Beneath the long underwear are white panties with printed rose buds and the words 'Wednesday' on the elastic band. The underwear is urine stained and in the inner aspect of the crotch are several red areas of staining measuring up to 0.5 inch in maximum dimension."
    Thank you very much, Cherokee! I think this is significant. I'm beginning to feel strongly that JBR was dressed for bed with the large bloomies over pull-ups sometime shortly after arriving home. At some point, she went back downstairs to play with Burke, ate some pineapple, and the head wound occured. I'm beginning to believe that, during the 90 minute period of staging, etc., the bloomies and longjohns were not taken off all the way...but rather just pulled down below the knees.
    Last edited by Cherokee; August 19, 2012, 2:57 pm at Sun Aug 19 14:57:27 UTC 2012. Reason: correct Cherokee typo

  8. #104

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    When our minds start going they turn and twist, Learnin don't they? Thanks for responding! Now I can let this blow in the wind.
    Elle, I lose track of things all the time because I'm trying to digest too much information at once. Sometimes I post things and, after a while, I think: "Boy, they must think I'm nuts."

  9. #105

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    She may NOT have had the size 12 panties on when her bladder released. They may have gotten wet with urine from simply being placed under the already-wet longjohns. But not wet enough to cause the blood stains to bleed into the longjohns as well. Water mixes molecules. It is why my Jewish friends tell me in a Kosher house the same dishwasher or sink cannot be used to wash dishes that have served both meat and dairy.
    The absence of blood on the longjohns when blood is in the panties is hard to explain if they were both on when her bladder voided.
    There may have been small traces of blood in the crotch of the long underwear which was not visible to the naked eye. The underwear might have absorbed enough of the blood to not leave visible red stains on the longjohn underwear. This is especially true if the major bleeding occurred with longjohns and panties below the knees. Blood was wiped from the crotch and thigh so the blood, on the crotch of the panties, was deposited there by oozing after she was wiped clean.

    Dust and lint, on the soles of JBR's feet, tell me that the longjohns weren't taken off over her feet or put on over her feet after she sustained the head wound. In order to put new underwear on, after the head blow, one would have to remove the longjohns entirely or, if they weren't on before the head blow, put them on after the new underwear were put on. I can't see how longjohns, fitting as tightly as they do, would not wipe across the soles of JBR's feet thereby removing the dust.

  10. #106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    This thread is going off in all different directions but I just wanted to jump in here and say Patsy said in one of her police interviews that Jonbenet slept in Burkes room on Christmas Eve. So the pj's she was wearing in that Christmas morning photo are obviously the ones she wore while sleeping in Burkes room Christmas Eve. How many people following this case really believe Jonbenet would put those pj's under her pillow on Christmas day when she got dressed? No, they would fall where they dropped. That pj top looks like it was flung on to the bed when she got dressed. For someone who never made her own bed there's no way she would take the time to put her pj's under the pillow. So IMO this is yet another lie by Patsy when she says she was searching under JB's pillow for the pj's she wore the night before. They were not there and she knew it.
    And where are the bottoms? In the photo her bottoms don't look pink to me. They look like white longjohns with some kind of pattern on them. I don't see anything like that in any crime scene photo we have access to. So where are the pj bottoms? Were those flung off somewhere also? My best guess is they are probably in the bathroom somewhere and we just can't see them in any photo we've seen. But I don't see them mentioned anywhere in any search documents, books or interviews either. The mysterious disappearing pj bottoms, never to be mentioned again. If she had wet them she would not be wearing them again the following night so it makes sense she would pull out a different pair, (and this time it was again thermal longjohn bottoms, coincidence?)to wear.
    I wonder if the blow to the head happened when Jonbenet was halfway dressed in her pj's. Maybe she had gotten her bottoms on but hadn't changed her top yet when she was struck?
    I'm with you. I don't think that top was placed under the pillow....just flung, as you say, across the bed when getting dressed.

  11. #107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    I'm with you. I don't think that top was placed under the pillow....just flung, as you say, across the bed when getting dressed.
    I don't believe Jonbenet ever laid in that bed on Christmas night. The crime scene photo shows the pillow at the end of the bed and her pj top at the head of the bed and above all else Kolar says the CSI's say the sheets reeked of urine. I don't believe Patsy would put her to bed in a bed with sheets reeking of urine and since I believe JB was awake, eating pineapple and getting herself undressed and dressed for bed I don't believe JB would agree to climb in to a bed with sheets reeking of urine.
    IF Jonbenet slept in Burkes room the night before, Christmas Eve, then that bed in her room was in that state from the night of the 23rd, the last known time she slept in it.
    What lends credence to this is the pj's that Jonbenet is photographed in on Christmas morning. If Patsy is lying and Jonbenet slept in her own room Christmas Eve, then she apparently wet her bed Christmas Eve. However, she is wearing pajamas Christmas morning in the photos. If she had wet her bed she would have wet her pajamas and when arising Christmas morning I doubt she would change out of wet pajamas and into clean pajamas. I think she would change out of wet pajamas and in to clothes.
    So since Jonbenet is wearing pajamas Christmas morning it stands to reason she did not wet the bed Christmas Eve. Whether she slept in her own room or Burkes she did not wet the bed.
    Since Chief Kolar says her bed reeked of urine I'm going to assume they were dry. In my experience with a bedwetting child years ago, when the bed was wet it did not smell as bad as it would when the sheets weren't changed until the following morning and it had dried or partially dried.
    This brings me to the night of the 23rd. The last night she slept in her bed, according to Patsy. If Patsy is being truthful in this instance that is the last opportunity Jonbenet would have had to wet her bed. So that means those wet sheets stayed on her bed, dried and were discovered by the CSI's on the third day they were on her bed, the 26th.
    Add to this the statement LHP made that those were not the sheets she last put on the bed. I assume she changed the sheets on the 23rd when she was there?
    So now we have this. Either LHP is mistaken about which sheets she put on the bed, or Patsy changed the sheets at some point on the 24th. If she slept in her bed on the 24th she wet it. That doesn't show in the Christmas morning photos UNLESS Jonbenet either continued to wear wet/dried pj's Christmas morning, or she changed from a wet set of pj's into a different set of pj's on Christmas morning. Also the other bed in Jonbenets room is undisturbed so if she had gotten up in the night of the 24th because she wet the bed and changed into clean pj's would she have crawled right back into her bed with the wet sheets? From the looks of the photo if she had changed her pj's during the night she would have either gone to Burkes room to sleep in his other twin bed as she had been known to do previously, or she would have crawled into her other twin bed in her own room.
    All in all, what I believe is this. LHP is mistaken about which sheets she put on Jonbenets bed the 23rd. Jonbenet wet her bed the night of the 23rd and it stayed that way, dried, until the CSI's found it on the 26th.
    The feces in the larger pj's had to have happened either on the night of the 23rd, the night JB wet the bed, or on the 24th or 25th. I say that because LHP was in there changing sheets the 23rd and I have no doubt she would have picked up those nasty pj's and taken them out of the room. So I don't think they were there the 23rd.
    LHP MUST be mistaken about which sheets she put on the bed. That's the only thing that makes sense given the photos and timeline.

  12. #108
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    8,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    Elle, I lose track of things all the time because I'm trying to digest too much information at once. Sometimes I post things and, after a while, I think: "Boy, they must think I'm nuts."
    I know the feeling, Learnin, but you're still a young thing compared to me! Not to worry! Your posts are always very interesting. This case would drive anyone up the wall. Hang in there!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.



Similar Threads

  1. Critical thinking TIME
    By BobC in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: August 17, 2006, 5:22 pm, Thu Aug 17 17:22:43 UTC 2006
  2. I'm new and got a few questions
    By SSIEGMUND in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: November 5, 2004, 6:06 pm, Fri Nov 5 18:06:33 UTC 2004
  3. Two Questions
    By Moab in forum Miriam Zambie Illes Case Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: February 21, 2004, 11:52 pm, Sat Feb 21 23:52:36 UTC 2004

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •