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  1. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    I guess this isn't so important, but why would John Ramsey need so many golf clubs? I guess one set might have been Patsy's, but still.

    All this explains JR's overheard utterance - Did you get my golf clubs - when they were getting out of town.

    Also, I wonder, if your son had whacked his sister on the head with a golf club a little while back, would you have so many clubs laying around? They didn't pay attention with what was important with those kids, did they?
    To me, the ones in the closet look like junior clubs, and they are in there all helter-skelter, no bag. The two bags in the hallway look like adult sets and may have both belonged to John, or maybe Patsy had her own set. The bag on the left - are we 100% certain it's a golf bag? I don't see any clubs and it looks as if it's sitting up on top of something so that it's taller....Is there another view of that hallway that would show us? I would LOVE to look through the inventory of what the police took out of that house, and also what PAM PAUGH took out on her evidence raid...She did get the golf clubs didn't she?

    And I would be very curious to know whether John Ramsey still plays any golf. Or if Burke has. Something tells me that pastime may have stopped right after that night.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  2. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    I would LOVE to look through the inventory of what the police took out of that house, and also what PAM PAUGH took out on her evidence raid...She did get the golf clubs didn't she?
    Who knows? There was only a partial inventory taken of everything Pam Paugh got in her raid on the house. No one knows, except for Pam, exactly everything she took. The raid was done haphazardly, with little to no oversight, which was what Hunter's office authorized, right down to Pam wearing a BPD jacket as a disguise.

    And I would be very curious to know whether John Ramsey still plays any golf. Or if Burke has. Something tells me that pastime may have stopped right after that night.
    John still plays golf, all over Michigan now. When he was still in Atlanta, he played there also. We even have a news article that was published by the Atlanta paper, with photos of John on the golf course. The link is broken now, but luckily, we saved the entire article.

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...67&postcount=1

    -------------------

    http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metr...212ramsey.html

    Tues, Dec. 12, 2006

    Hope drives JonBenet's dad to forge new life, but slowly

    By MICHELLE HISKEY
    The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

    Published on: 12/12/06

    Rich Addicks/Staff

    John Ramsey looked back on events in his life, including his daughter JonBenet's murder, during a round of golf. 'What really bugs me is the tag line that's always under [JonBenet's] picture that says 'child beauty queen,'' he said. 'She was so much more than that. ... She was our spark plug. She was 100 percent Patsy.'

    The foursome who cut in front of him are playing slowly, as if every shot is costing them money.

    It starts to rain, and he doesn't have a jacket or an umbrella.

    He could quit, but he's on the 16th tee box, a long walk from the shelter of the clubhouse. Mired in this chosen misery, Ramsey simply shrugs, smiles and swings away.

    More than anything, Ramsey the golfer and Ramsey the survivor hold on to hope.

    When you've lost two daughters and a wife, and lived through the hell of public suspicion that you've murdered your littlest one, hope is what keeps you going.

    [skip]

    Ramsey takes another whack at the ball as the rain falls. He recalls the advice of his father, who taught him the game when he was a kid in Nebraska.

    "Don't say a word about the shot until it lands," his father would say.

    You never know how a shot will end up. A bad one can get a lucky bounce and end up fine.

    [skip]

    That means plenty of time for golf. He plays when someone invites him, usually a half-dozen times a year.

    "I was going to check the air in my tires, but I can do that tomorrow," he says, laughing. "My schedule is wide open."

    On the course, Ramsey looks like just another businessman trying to break 100 except for his temper. He stays on an even keel, barely saying "shoot" over a bad shot and mostly joking that another one in the trees "shows that I'm back on my game."

    "I've had worse," he often says as he finds another ball off the fairway.

    Showing up with a golf bag that is missing a strap and head covers, he's not playing to impress anyone. Yet his competitive nature rises in his smile about how he won his Ping B60i putter in a bet two decades ago. He never bothered to take the sales sticker off the bottom.

    His best shot this round comes on the second hole, when his perfectly struck wedge shot from 20 yards falls in the cup for a bogey 4.

    [skip]

    He lost his vivacious partner a former Miss West Virginia and the spirit that had kept them together through so much.

    "Eighty percent of couples end up divorced after the loss of a kid," he says. "When you are really devastated, you look at your spouse to carry you, and they can't because they're just as devastated. We would tell each other, 'We're not going to have any pity parties.' "

    When they met, she was in marketing and played golf regularly, unaware of the nuances of the game.

    "She liked to tell the story about how she saw an advertisement for a better short game," Ramsey says. "She thought that meant she'd be able to play in two hours, not five."

    [skip]

    On this blustery, balmy day, the pre-winter turf of East Lake provides a fitting backdrop for a man in transition, who never sought public attention and is trying to make the best of what's left after so much has been taken away.

    This course, one of Atlanta's oldest, was nearly forsaken until a developer renovated it and brought back its luster.

    [skip]

    And that hope carries over at East Lake. Not many golfers would be happy with Ramsey's 108. But they're not him.

    "I hit a lot more good shots than usual," he says in a chipper voice.

    Seeing beyond the score that's hope, in John Ramsey's world.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  3. #39

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    I believe I've found the answer to where the single bag of golf clubs was store in the basement. Comparing photographs with the basement blueprints, it looks like they were in the storage room next to the laundry.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by Cherokee; August 22, 2012, 7:39 pm at Wed Aug 22 19:39:53 UTC 2012.

  4. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    I guess this isn't so important, but why would John Ramsey need so many golf clubs? I guess one set might have been Patsy's, but still.

    All this explains JR's overheard utterance - Did you get my golf clubs - when they were getting out of town.

    Also, I wonder, if your son had whacked his sister on the head with a golf club a little while back, would you have so many clubs laying around? They didn't pay attention with what was important with those kids, did they?
    I can tell you that it's not unusual for a family that enjoys golf to have lots of sets. My husband just upgraded his set (again!) so now he has two sets. I have a set. We have a left handed set for my college daughter. We have a junior size set. We have another set that both our boys use when they are home.

    And, in case you're wondering - we are NOT a hoarding type family. I think we keep the junior clubs in hopes of using them with grandkids when that day comes. The others we assume our children will take when they land somewhere permanent.

  5. #41

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    Kolar said in his book there was a set of BURKES golf clubs in the basement.

    I posted that before and I think that may be what Elle was remembering.

    RE: size 12 Wednesday panties Seems like something a kid would do. Especially a boy. Changing the underwear, trying to match the day of the week and disregarding the size. To me it sounds like the size wouldn't be as important to a kid as the day of the week if he were trying to replace them hoping nobody would notice. Boys don't seem to care that much about how something fits. It would be the day of the week that stood out as matching what she was wearing before.

    I still think they were in Jonbenets drawer in her bathroom and she was cleaned up and redressed while laying on her bed.

    I don't believe Patsy unwrapped a present, dug out the panties, then re-wrapped that gift leaving it partially wrapped that night. That strains my common sense.

    I don't think any of us are anywhere near the truth in this case yet. Chief Kolar gave us just enough new info to confuse us all over again. Well me anyway.

  6. #42

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    Using basement blueprints, photos, and video screen captures, I believe we now know the location of all the golf clubs found in the Ramsey basement.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  7. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    The foursome who cut in front of him are playing slowly, as if every shot is costing them money.

    It starts to rain, and he doesn't have a jacket or an umbrella.

    He could quit, but he's on the 16th tee box, a long walk from the shelter of the clubhouse. Mired in this chosen misery, Ramsey simply shrugs, smiles and swings away.

    More than anything, Ramsey the golfer and Ramsey the survivor hold on to hope.

    When you've lost two daughters and a wife, and lived through the hell of public suspicion that you've murdered your littlest one, hope is what keeps you going.


    "I
    When they met, she was in marketing and played golf regularly, unaware of the nuances of the game.

    "She liked to tell the story about how she saw an advertisement for a better short game," Ramsey says. "She thought that meant she'd be able to play in two hours, not five."



    And that hope carries over at East Lake. Not many golfers would be happy with Ramsey's 108. But they're not him.

    "I hit a lot more good shots than usual," he says in a chipper voice.

    Seeing beyond the score that's hope, in John Ramsey's world.
    OK, well, there's my answer. Nice moobs, by the way, John. You might think about more support in your man-zier.

    (Six times a year isn't much golfing, though.)
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  8. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Kolar said in his book there was a set of BURKES golf clubs in the basement.

    I posted that before and I think that may be what Elle was remembering.

    RE: size 12 Wednesday panties Seems like something a kid would do. Especially a boy. Changing the underwear, trying to match the day of the week and disregarding the size. To me it sounds like the size wouldn't be as important to a kid as the day of the week if he were trying to replace them hoping nobody would notice. Boys don't seem to care that much about how something fits. It would be the day of the week that stood out as matching what she was wearing before.

    I still think they were in Jonbenets drawer in her bathroom and she was cleaned up and redressed while laying on her bed.

    I don't believe Patsy unwrapped a present, dug out the panties, then re-wrapped that gift leaving it partially wrapped that night. That strains my common sense.

    I don't think any of us are anywhere near the truth in this case yet. Chief Kolar gave us just enough new info to confuse us all over again. Well me anyway.
    Patsy wouldn't have had to re-wrap anything, partially or not. She simply partially UN-wrapped some boxes till she found the ones with the panties and left it. The police found it that way. The panties couldn't have been in the drawer for two reasons- first, these were part of a 7-panty set. NO other size 12s were found in her drawer or anywhere else in the house. There would have had to be at least SOME of them in her drawer. The OTHER (and more likely reason) is that the REST of the 6 pairs were returned to LE STILL IN THE PACKAGE 5 years later- why would they put only that ONE pair in her drawer?
    We already KNOW Patsy admitted buying them as a gift for an older child. And she admitted she had not yet mailed that's child's gifts to her, and planned to do so when she returned from her trip, so we know they were in the house.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  9. #45
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heymom
    In that little storage room, are we SURE those are golf club handles? I am thinking that from the photo you just put up, it looks more like curtain rods. Golf clubs have grips on the ends, not just bare metal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    IMHO, those ARE black rubber grips at the end of the metal rods. I'll circle them in a photo and post it for you.
    They sure don't look like my golf clubs, girls!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    They sure don't look like my golf clubs, girls!
    They do look quite thin at the grip area, but maybe they were Burke's youth set. They don't look to be in a bag, just thrown into the closet all odds and ends.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  11. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    OK, well, there's my answer. Nice moobs, by the way, John. You might think about more support in your man-zier.

    (Six times a year isn't much golfing, though.)
    You noticed that too! He's got more there than his golfing partner does.

    But seriously...
    Showing up with a golf bag that is missing a strap and head covers, he's not playing to impress anyone. Yet his competitive nature rises in his smile about how he won his Ping B60i putter in a bet two decades ago. He never bothered to take the sales sticker off the bottom.
    Article was written in 2006, says he won the putter two decades earlier, so he certainly would have had it in 1996. No one could be so callous as to continue using something that was used to kill his daughter -- could he?

  12. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    I still think they were in Jonbenets drawer in her bathroom and she was cleaned up and redressed while laying on her bed.
    Why? And if you believe a boy did the changing of the panties, then how did he get her up several flights of stairs to her room and then back down to the basement? Or do you believe the head injury occured upstairs in her bedroom?

    I don't believe Patsy unwrapped a present, dug out the panties, then re-wrapped that gift leaving it partially wrapped that night. That strains my common sense.
    Either you've misunderstood something I've said, or I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here.

    Let's try again. I don't believe "Patsy unwrapped a present, dug out the panties and then re-wrapped the gift, leaving it partially wrapped that night." That DOES strain common sense, and I would never think or post that.

    I think it's possible Patsy could have taken the package of size 12 Bloomies meant for Jenny Davis that were located with the rest of the Christmas presents, removed the Wednesday panties, and either used them herself to redress JonBenet or gave them to John to redress JonBenet.

    I don't know if the package was already wrapped or not. It might not have been. If it was, then Patsy unwrapped it and left it that way. I never said Patsy tried to RE-WRAP it. I don't remember anyone else saying that, but maybe they did. Somehow, that package of Bloomies did not end up in the evidence removed from the house, but was delivered to the Boulder DA's office five years later after allegedly being found in a box in the Ramsey's house in Atlanta.

    Patsy did say in one of her interviews that she'd meant to send the Bloomies to Jenny Davis for a Christmas present, but she hadn't gotten around to it. That's why we don't know if the Bloomies package was wrapped or not.



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