Page 8 of 18 FirstFirst ... 456789101112 ... LastLast
Results 85 to 96 of 209
  1. #85
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    8,381

    Default

    I thought Jonbenét and Burke may have had a squabble at the table over the pineapple before bedtime, KK. Believable!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  2. #86

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Hey, what if she never even made it to her bedroom at all? What if she was downstairs, ate some pineapple, and then was struck?

    Kolar believes this happened on the first floor, I believe he said on the Peter Boyles show, right?

    He certainly knows things he's not telling, particularly from the grand jury.
    You're right, it was during the PB interview that he expressed that opininion
    Kolar: “I think she was struck in the kitchen or the dining room where the pineapple was being consumed and then moved downstairs afterward.”
    @3:00 – 3:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcBudyKeOFo

  3. #87

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    But what I'm getting at, or hoping someone will see something I can't, is this: does the blood on the pillowcase found on the bed and the use of that particular blanket tell us anything?

    Does the fact that she had only one pattern of livor mortis tell us anything? Like, was the livor mortis set before she was even found at 1 pm? If she'd been lying in that position in the cellar for around 12 hrs, in other words, strangled around 1 am?

    More specifically: she was back home around 9 pm; she ate pineapple; she was bludgeoned; approx. an hour or two later she was strangled?

    Hey, what if she never even made it to her bedroom at all? What if she was downstairs, ate some pineapple, and then was struck?

    Kolar believes this happened on the first floor, I believe he said on the Peter Boyles show, right?

    He certainly knows things he's not telling, particularly from the grand jury.
    This is the reason that I started thinking that it was important to try and see if we could make some progress in determining the type of weapon used.
    In a spontaneous killing with a blunt object, let’s face it, it’s availability that determines the weapon. (Unless she was flung at high velocity into a surface, which I believe has a number of issues that make it far less likely, although not out of the realm of possibility.)
    For example if it was the flashlight, it adds credence to the kitchen as the likely area.
    If it was a golf club, then I believe it was more probable that it was the basement where it seemed you couldn’t walk more than a few steps before you tripped over one.

  4. #88

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I can't tell you how that confuses me.

    For example, if she had her pillow under her head, while lying on her right side, after the head blow, her blood on it would be explained. It would have drained there as it ran down the right side of her face, as we can see from the autopsy photos.

    So where did the pillow figure into all of this? Found at the bottom of her bed, not where it would have normally been, according to Patsy herself.

    Since the bed was in the standard "made" position, as far as the sheets and comforter--with the blanket not having been pulled out of place, i.e.--the blanket has been deduced to have been in the dryer. Or somewhere in a linen closet or laundry basket...?

    Of course, none of this is what we've been told, so...I'm wandering around in the twilight zone here.

    And how does this fit into where the body was found in the cellar?

    I guess I'm wondering why Burke, a child, if he found himself "comforting" his dying sister in his own way, would look for a specific blanket, and a specific pillow from her own bed? If he were in the basement, for example, would he run up two flights of stairs to get "her" pillow from her bed, and look for "her" blanket? As opposed to just grabbing a pillow and afghan from a couch or chair on the first floor?
    Perhaps what’s making it difficult for you in this instance is that you are looking at what might have been logical for YOU, i.e. grab the nearest soft pillow, as opposed to the first thing that might have popped into Burke’s head, “I’ve got to grab a blanket and pillow to help her rest and maybe she’ll wake up faster. I’ll grab the stuff from her bed. I know I can get both things there.” (Although he would have had to do some more looking for the blanket?)

  5. #89

    Default

    I wonder if the blanket was in the basement dryer?

    I thought either Patsy or LHP said the heavier items such as blankets were washed and dried in the basement?

    I just wanted to add I've always thought that "garrote" looked like a toy. Something a kid would manufacture while playing with those items. It doesn't look to me like something John Ramsey would construct. That leaves Patsy or Burke. I've always had a problem with the notion Patsy strangled Jonbenet.

  6. #90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    I wonder if the blanket was in the basement dryer?

    I thought either Patsy or LHP said the heavier items such as blankets were washed and dried in the basement?
    I couldn't say for sure if the blanket had been on her bed that night. Often we wash our bedding in the large washer and dryer, which were in the basement, rather than use the smaller stackable unit on the second floor. Could the blanket and nightgown have been removed from that dryer?
    Death of Innocence, page 287

    By the end of the summer, Patsy was trying to get her to do without them. Then JonBenét started wetting the bed again. Almost every day I was there, there was a wet bed. Patsy said she wasn’t going to use Pull-Ups again. She just put a plastic cover on the bed. No big deal to her. By the time I’d come in the morning, Patsy would have all the sheets off the bed and in the laundry. JonBenét’s white blanket would already be in the dryer. The Ramseys had two washer-dryers—one in the basement and a stackable unit in a closet just outside JonBenét’s room.
    Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller, page 237

  7. #91

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I was looking at the autopsy report, and Meyer describes livor mortis on the right side of her face, pronounced enough at autopsy, some 30+ hrs. after death, for him to state it was difficult to see the petechial hemorrhages on her right eyelid? Did I get that right?

    Then there is that photo, taken by the medical examiner, of her in situ at the home, with her hands bagged. She appears to be lying on her left side in that photo, so she was turned for the photo?
    That's the way I see it.
    And her arms/hands, which should have been in substantial rigor by that point, are not at all in the position we so often have concluded from the "illustration" we've seen of her lying on her back, arms stretched out high above her head/body. Instead, in that photo, they're almost in a "prayer-like" position in front of her, like she was asleep on her bed, on her side.

    I can't tell you how that confuses me.

    For example, if she had her pillow under her head, while lying on her right side, after the head blow, her blood on it would be explained. It would have drained there as it ran down the right side of her face, as we can see from the autopsy photos.
    I believe that this picture depicts the correct position:
    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...1&d=1258521793

    Her arms would have been close to the position that this baby has, although I think that JonBenet’s arms would have been a bit higher.



    The “artist’s depiction” of JBR that we’ve seen for years has her arms up far too high, IMO.
    http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetbody1.jpg

    The picture that you described as resembling “praying” must have been taken after someone, (presumably Meyer?) broke rigor in the arms perhaps to allow for a particular picture to be taken
    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...1&d=1256064716

    More description, but not necessarily helpful.
    Then he saw two little hands sticking out from under the blanket.
    “Oh my God, oh my God,” he cried.
    JonBenét was lying on the floor, partly wrapped in the blanket. Her hands were extended over her head and appeared to be tied together. There was tape covering her mouth.
    [SNIP]
    As Ramsey emerged from the stairwell carrying his daughter with his arms now around her waist, he turned and met Detective Arndt. JonBenét’s hands were still extended above her head. A string hung from her right wrist; a bright red mark, the size of a quarter, was visible at the base of her throat. Ramsey placed JonBenét on a rug, just inside the front doorway. Arndt could see the child’s lips were blue.
    Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller, pages 18 - 19

    John Ramsey emerged from the basement carrying the body of JonBenét, not cradled close but held away from him, his hands gripping her waist. The child’s head was above his, facing him, her arms were raised high, stiffened by rigor mortis, and her lips were blue. The child was obviously dead.
    JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, page 30
    Last edited by cynic; August 26, 2012, 7:11 pm at Sun Aug 26 19:11:31 UTC 2012.

  8. #92
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    8,381

    Default

    Originally Posted by koldkase
    Hey, what if she never even made it to her bedroom at all? What if she was downstairs, ate some pineapple, and then was struck?

    Kolar believes this happened on the first floor, I believe he said on the Peter Boyles show, right?

    He certainly knows things he's not telling, particularly from the grand jury.


    Koldkase,

    Help me out here, please. Many moons ago, I remember reading Patsy wanted JonBenét to wear a red sweater top and black pants to the White's Xmas party, 1996 , to match her own outfit, and JonBenét rebelled and wore the white top with the star. At this moment I'm reading page 124-125 and Kolar states the initial reporting by Patsy of JonBenét going to bed in a red turtleneck top had changed. Kolar doesn't state what she wore, but she was found in the white top- with the star.

    There is a photo on page 125 "not in colour" of the red top on the right side of JonBenét's sink, bunched up. I wondered if Patsy had been spiteful that night. because JonBenét refused to wear it to match Patsy's outfit, Patsy may well have put it on her out of spite and all hell broke loose, and Patsy lost it! (?).

    Haven't got the patience to wait until I come across more news about this red top, but I'm not seeing it right now. Is there any more mention
    of this?

    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  9. #93

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Koldkase,

    Help me out here, please. Many moons ago, I remember reading Patsy wanted JonBenét to wear a red sweater top and black pants to the White's Xmas party, 1996 , to match her own outfit, and JonBenét rebelled and wore the white top with the star. At this moment I'm reading page 124-125 and Kolar states the initial reporting by Patsy of JonBenét going to bed in a red turtleneck top had changed. Kolar doesn't state what she wore, but she was found in the white top- with the star.

    There is a photo on page 125 "not in colour" of the red top on the right side of JonBenét's sink, bunched up. I wondered if Patsy had been spiteful that night. because JonBenét refused to wear it to match Patsy's outfit, Patsy may well have put it on her out of spite and all hell broke loose, and Patsy lost it! (?).

    Haven't got the patience to wait until I come across more news about this red top, but I'm not seeing it right now. Is there any more mention
    of this?

    [/I]
    I hope you don't mind hearing it from me rather than KK , but the answer is no, there is no further mention of it.

  10. #94

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post

    [snip]

    The picture that you described as resembling “praying” must have been taken after someone, (presumably Meyer?) broke rigor in the arms perhaps to allow for a particular picture to be taken
    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...1&d=1256064716

    [snip]
    Ah. That's it. RIGHT THERE.

    I'm no coroner. Nor am I a medical examiner. So this may be a simple question for others.

    Not for me.

    Why?

    Why would he break rigor in her arms at that point?

    There has to be a reason. As far as evidence, it seems like a bad choice unless there were a very specific need to do it. I mean, there might be bruising from that alone, right? She's clothed; evidence hasn't been totally collected from her body yet, so might be disturbed by something so violent as breaking rigor.

    Why would Meyer do that?

    Anybody?

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  11. #95

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    I hope you don't mind hearing it from me rather than KK , but the answer is no, there is no further mention of it.
    That's another piece of evidence that bothers me.

    What's the significance of this red top? Surely she isn't wearing it at the Whites or it would have been mentioned by now as photos of her at the Whites' party exist, right?

    So if she was wearing the white star top at the Whites', and was found in it, other than Patsy telling LE early that morning that's what she was wearing, when clearly she was later "found" in something else, why does this red top keep getting so much attention?

    Is there something they're not telling us? Something I'm completely missing?

    Or is this another red herring brought on by yet another changing of story from the Ramseys?

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  12. #96
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    3,481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Ah. That's it. RIGHT THERE.

    I'm no coroner. Nor am I a medical examiner. So this may be a simple question for others.

    Not for me.

    Why?

    Why would he break rigor in her arms at that point?

    There has to be a reason. As far as evidence, it seems like a bad choice unless there were a very specific need to do it. I mean, there might be bruising from that alone, right? She's clothed; evidence hasn't been totally collected from her body yet, so might be disturbed by something so violent as breaking rigor.

    Why would Meyer do that?

    Anybody?
    Maybe he couldn't get a clear view of that mark on her face unless he moved her arms. ??
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!



Similar Threads

  1. Time span between head blow and strangulation
    By rashomon in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: February 5, 2009, 9:54 am, Thu Feb 5 9:54:54 UTC 2009
  2. Conflicting evidence on blow/strangle- what's the answer
    By Stonewall in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: August 26, 2006, 11:17 pm, Sat Aug 26 23:17:06 UTC 2006
  3. Blow this.....
    By RiverRat in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: September 29, 2005, 5:48 pm, Thu Sep 29 17:48:32 UTC 2005
  4. Fantastic look at the head injury
    By Tricia in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: July 18, 2003, 2:22 pm, Fri Jul 18 14:22:25 UTC 2003

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •