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Thread: Child of Rage

  1. #13
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    Bob, I see your connection. It makes me re-evaluate a lot of things about Burke. I have a feeling he was a very troubled young child with lots of rage issues.

    You know what I keep seeing - those images of him at JonBenet's funeral - dressed in a pair of pants that don't fit him, walking by himself as John and Patsy comfort each other. Almost as if they couldn't stand to be near him at that point. Makes you wonder.

  2. #14
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to say this type of behavior seems like Burke, but there are a lot of flags. The Ramseys guarded his and JBR's medical records fiercely, and that struck me as odd since the police could not release that information to the public even if they were the conspiratorial, drooling thugs the Ramseys so effectively painted them as.

    I mean, If either of those kids just had a case of strep throat or a few bouts with the flu, what's the big deal? In fact, revealing that kind of ordinary stuff would certainly point towards no "dark secrets" in the home.

  3. #15
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    I was thinking about this documentary before I went to sleep last night. The title is so wrong - Beth Thomas was not full of rage. She did not commit violence in rage. She had very little emotion at all. All during the interview with Dr. Magid (who has written books about psycho and sociopaths) her affect was flat. Sociopaths do not commit their crimes out of a high emotion such as rage. They really do not care enough about their victims to respond in emotion. The term, "cold-blooded killer" is very appropriate.

    In fact, almost the only display of any emotion at all comes in the first few minutes of the video, as the doctor asks her if people are afraid of her. Her eyes light up and she smiles as she tells him that her brother, John, is indeed, afraid of her. At 0:41 if you pause the video you see almost a delighted expression on her face as she considers that her brother is scared of her. This is one of the most frightening parts of the video to me, because it shows that her responses are completely twisted. If this little girl hadn't gotten treatment, she would have undoubtedly become a serial killer.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  4. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    Wow! I see what you're referring to. This little girl's private parts were, as she describes them, raw from rubbing herself....she was abused and she abused herself...thereby causing vaginal irritation, etc....

    Wow!
    She has the wrong name for her outer physical parts. It is the vulva that would be injured, unless she really did stick objects or her fingers into her own vagina. But evidently she did rub her vulva until it was raw and injured.

    Very sad.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  5. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pearlsim View Post
    Bob, I see your connection. It makes me re-evaluate a lot of things about Burke. I have a feeling he was a very troubled young child with lots of rage issues.

    You know what I keep seeing - those images of him at JonBenet's funeral - dressed in a pair of pants that don't fit him, walking by himself as John and Patsy comfort each other. Almost as if they couldn't stand to be near him at that point. Makes you wonder.
    And again, he had the wrong affect - at the funeral, he was giggling and talking to his friend, not somber and aware that his sister's body was going to be buried that morning. I guess at one point, he went over and patted JonBenet's coffin before it was put in the ground, but that was it as far as acknowledging what was going on.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  6. #18
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    Well, in his defense, Burke was really young and by all accounts very withdrawn.

  7. #19
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    I don't know that I consider nine years old to be too young to comprehend the sorrow of a little sister's death. I'm not necessarily "grading" Burke on his reactions but I do believe that nine year olds are old enough to understand sadness and grief all around them and to realize something is very wrong when little sister is lying in a coffin about to be lowered into the ground. They may not fully comprehend the permanence of death but I do think they get the sadness, on some level.

    Really, though, I consider John and Patsy's reactions to Burke more telling. I do know that grief is, in some respects, a very private journey but for image conscious Patsy not to come near or comfort her young son just seemed to odd. That added to the fact that it looked like he dressed himself, with no one bothering to make sure he would look presentable, just seems a bit off.

    I wouldn't take those observations to court but, in coming to the BDI position, I begin to understand some of that oddity a bit better.

  8. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pearlsim View Post
    I don't know that I consider nine years old to be too young to comprehend the sorrow of a little sister's death. I'm not necessarily "grading" Burke on his reactions but I do believe that nine year olds are old enough to understand sadness and grief all around them and to realize something is very wrong when little sister is lying in a coffin about to be lowered into the ground. They may not fully comprehend the permanence of death but I do think they get the sadness, on some level.

    Really, though, I consider John and Patsy's reactions to Burke more telling. I do know that grief is, in some respects, a very private journey but for image conscious Patsy not to come near or comfort her young son just seemed to odd. That added to the fact that it looked like he dressed himself, with no one bothering to make sure he would look presentable, just seems a bit off.

    I wouldn't take those observations to court but, in coming to the BDI position, I begin to understand some of that oddity a bit better.
    My mother died when I was 10. At first, I didn't understand very well, but as the days went by, especially after we viewed my mother's body in the coffin, I did "get it." It was terrible when I truly realized that she wasn't coming back. My mother had been chronically ill for my whole childhood and like other children, I just accepted that as normal, as something every mother did, going to the hospital on a frequent basis.

    As for John and Patsy, I cannot imagine not clinging to my remaining child at the funeral and burial of my beloved younger child. But then my sons, either of them, would have been bereft at losing their brother. The whole picture is just askew when it comes to the Ramseys, especially Burke. It's making more and more sense that they wanted him OUT of the house ASAP that morning, before LE could question him.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  9. #21
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    Interesting. This whole case is so weird.

  10. #22
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    Thanks to you, Bob. You opened another door for those of us who had never been confronted with this sexual abuse history from young Beth. heymom seems to be very much ahead with her knowledge too because she did work with children. It takes special people to be able to do this, A big thank you to both of you for all the children you have helped during the time you were with them.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  11. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Thanks to you, Bob. You opened another door for those of us who had never been confronted with this sexual abuse history from young Beth. heymom seems to be very much ahead with her knowledge too because she did work with children. It takes special people to be able to do this, A big thank you to both of you for all the children you have helped during the time you were with them.
    Oh my, I can take no credit at all, Elle. I felt while I was working with those kids, that actually, they helped me more than I ever helped them. They were very special. All I ever got from them was love and appreciation. I actually wasn't strong enough to do that work long-term. It was heart-breaking and at the same time, heart-enlarging. When one of the very beloved little boys died (one of the most handicapped, from abuse as a baby) it was the end for me. I felt like a coward but I just couldn't handle it any more. I didn't want my sadness to affect the rest of the kids in the house.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  12. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    Oh I can see that you are drawing a parallel between this little girl and Burke. And in fact, I think Chief Kolar may have drawn the same conclusion - that Burke was one of those children of rage. Without a conscience. That he did molest and finally kill his sister. I wonder about it too. This little girl, Beth Thomas, did get therapy and she did finally learn right from wrong. When they asked her in Part 3, about what she had done to her brother, she started to cry, exactly as she should, feeling bad and guilty about what she had done. And I know Burke was in treatment after JonBenet's death - and maybe before. So perhaps he also improved with treatment. I hope that he did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    Wow! I see what you're referring to. This little girl's private parts were, as she describes them, raw from rubbing herself....she was abused and she abused herself...thereby causing vaginal irritation, etc....

    Wow!
    Ditto these observations, Heymom and Learnin.

    BobC - Thank you for posting the link. I just watched the full documentary. Kinda speechless. A lot to think about. I have a niece with reactive attachment disorder, so am somewhat familiar with it, but she isn't at the level of severity of the child in the film.



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