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  1. #13
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    Originally Posted by Learnin
    See new thread, WHY JOHN LIED ABOUT BREAKING THE WINDOW. I believe it was probably an innocent break...kids throwing a ball around or broke it with something while horsing around?

    I think John saw the broken window as an opportunity for an intruder entrance and concocted the story to lead investigators toward the window as an entrance. If John had entered the house through that window when he needed to "break" into the house, then, why not an intruder?


    This is more believable than the concocted tale of John coming through the window, Learnin.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  2. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon View Post
    I don't think it could be ruled out; I don't recall the exact words, but it is somewhere in the back of my mind that Patsy was asked about their laundry chute, whether John himself would handle his worn clothes, etc.
    As opposed to the brown cotton fibers and the blue terry-cloth fibers which were also found in this area, the black wool fibers could definitely be sourced to an item from the Ramsey household: the shirt which John been wearing during the hours preceding the horrific events on Christmas night.


    Wouldn't it have been possible to find out via lab examination
    - whether it was a fresh break or an older break;
    - whether the window had been broken from the inside or the outside?

    But iirc, neither S. Thomas nor J. Kolar mention in their books whether the
    broken glass was examined in detail and what the results were.
    Neither one of them put everything they know into their books. They are both withholding information, in some cases the same information.
    Of course the lab knows everything about that window there is to know. So do Thomas and Kolar. That information must have been included in Grand Jury testimony since neither one of them wrote about it, so they probably can't.

    But this should tell us one thing at least.

    If it were a red herrring and things
    happened just the way JR said they did, and proof was borne out in the lab then this window wouldn't be much of an issue would it? I mean, it would be able to be discussed and written about in books if JR's story were true and the lab results revealed the same evidence as JR's story, the window should be a non issue. But now we find that nobody is talking about it in any books or anything. Something is up with that window and the lack of information from anybody proves it.

  3. #15
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    Arrow

    When I first saw the video from that Daily Beast article I watched it with my mouth open actually. The cobweb blowing in the breeze while still attached to the window frame; The messy area all around the hallways and window area; the realization that what we had previously been led to believe was the same area now all crowded and littered with junk. I think many of us here felt the same way. We had been so mislead by Smit and Co. And now that darn window is one of the main topics of discussion. When was it broken? by whom and how long ago? did anyone really come in through that window long ago or just that night? Seeing all the debris along the bottom of the window well it is difficult to imagine that anyone could have and not bring in all sorts of dirt and leaves.

    Was it really just a broken window that came in handy for an excuse? Will we ever know the truth? Hard to know.
    "When are we going to get our heads out of the sand and understand that sometimes really nice people who look good on the outside are dastardly on the inside." Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, MA

  4. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Neither one of them put everything they know into their books. They are both withholding information, in some cases the same information.
    Of course the lab knows everything about that window there is to know. So do Thomas and Kolar. That information must have been included in Grand Jury testimony since neither one of them wrote about it, so they probably can't.

    But this should tell us one thing at least.

    If it were a red herrring and things
    happened just the way JR said they did, and proof was borne out in the lab then this window wouldn't be much of an issue would it? I mean, it would be able to be discussed and written about in books if JR's story were true and the lab results revealed the same evidence as JR's story, the window should be a non issue. But now we find that nobody is talking about it in any books or anything. Something is up with that window and the lack of information from anybody proves it.
    I agree with what you're saying here, Karen. Chief Kolar also had to be careful what he said on Tricia's broadcast. He didn't give answers he knew would cause trouble for him. It's frustrating when you know important information is being held back.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  5. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoomama View Post
    When I first saw the video from that Daily Beast article I watched it with my mouth open actually. The cobweb blowing in the breeze while still attached to the window frame; The messy area all around the hallways and window area; the realization that what we had previously been led to believe was the same area now all crowded and littered with junk. I think many of us here felt the same way. We had been so mislead by Smit and Co. And now that darn window is one of the main topics of discussion. When was it broken? by whom and how long ago? did anyone really come in through that window long ago or just that night? Seeing all the debris along the bottom of the window well it is difficult to imagine that anyone could have and not bring in all sorts of dirt and leaves.

    Was it really just a broken window that came in handy for an excuse? Will we ever know the truth? Hard to know.
    I think you have already answered your own question zm. It was really just a broken window which came in handy for an excuse! I doubt we'll ever hear the real truth from John Ramsey!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  6. #18

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    Okay, sorry if this is a dumb question but it's been bugging me for a while and I haven't seen any detailed explanation anywhere:

    I've studied the photos and video of the window and cobwebs, and I see the pieces/strings of cobwebs that are stuck to the jagged glass where the break occurred.

    What I don't understand is how those little strings prove that the break was old. It appears that cobwebs were probably stuck all over the window area (before the break) so why isn't it possible that the window could be broken and there could be pieces/remnants of the cobwebs still stuck to the remaining glass?

    Cobwebs are sticky and stringy. I don't see how breaking a hole in the window would wipe the window clean of all of the pieces of the cobwebs. I don't see a full, undisturbed web constructed in those jagged edges - only random strings. Why does this mean the break was old? Couldn't it mean, rather, that the preexisting web was broken along with the window pane?

    Another thought: if the break did happen before that night, I wonder if any of those shelves/racks were parked in front of the window, hiding it. I recall the neighbor's husband saying he heard the sound of metal scraping on concrete (or something like that)... could it have been one of those shelves/racks being moved away from the window and over to another wall? Purpose being, to stage an intruder break-in.

  7. #19
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Britt View Post
    Okay, sorry if this is a dumb question but it's been bugging me for a while and I haven't seen any detailed explanation anywhere:

    I've studied the photos and video of the window and cobwebs, and I see the pieces/strings of cobwebs that are stuck to the jagged glass where the break occurred.

    What I don't understand is how those little strings prove that the break was old. It appears that cobwebs were probably stuck all over the window area (before the break) so why isn't it possible that the window could be broken and there could be pieces/remnants of the cobwebs still stuck to the remaining glass?

    Cobwebs are sticky and stringy. I don't see how breaking a hole in the window would wipe the window clean of all of the pieces of the cobwebs. I don't see a full, undisturbed web constructed in those jagged edges - only random strings. Why does this mean the break was old? Couldn't it mean, rather, that the preexisting web was broken along with the window pane?

    Another thought: if the break did happen before that night, I wonder if any of those shelves/racks were parked in front of the window, hiding it. I recall the neighbor's husband saying he heard the sound of metal scraping on concrete (or something like that)... could it have been one of those shelves/racks being moved away from the window and over to another wall? Purpose being, to stage an intruder break-in.
    I think these are very good questions, Britt. I have a big spider who spins a web at the corner of our patio door, next to the light. On a regular basis I sweep it away because I can't stand spiders and hate to see insects caught in a web. If I didn't do this regularly, this web would be covered in dust from the trees and the flying insects would be able to walk on it.

    Probably the dust on the Ramsey web came from the trees too, but as you said not necessarily old, because if I left this web alone, it would be covered in dust. I have to wipe our picnic table every day because of the dust. So ...your question is not a dumb one, Britt.

    About the sound of scraping metal, I doubt if it had been the shelves, the sound would have been heard by a neighbour, but it could have been John Ramsey making that sound himself by lifting the actual grate in the basement room for this purpose alone - hoping a neighbour would hear it! (?).
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  8. #20
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    There are a few things that could have caused the "metal scraping concrete" sound. One thing could have been someone moving the paint cans in the woneceller to make room for JB's body. The other was moving the large piece of sheet metal that had been in there, too. Either one would make that sound on the concrete floor.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  9. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    I think you have already answered your own question zm. It was really just a broken window which came in handy for an excuse! I doubt we'll ever hear the real truth from John Ramsey!
    I agree! There were a few things the RST just JUMPED on- one was the suitcase, which Lou Smit almost GLEEFULLY identified as what the "intruder" HAD to have used to climb out the window (ignoring the chair in plain sight in the train room). But after all- this "intruder" was SO clever, according to JR, that he figured out a way to climb out the window in the train room, balancing on a suitcase, ignoring the chair, yet magically finding a way to pull the chair against the OTHER side of the door as he left. I guess he was clever enough to reach through that closed door.
    The RST (and Smit) also jumped all over the broken window, ignoring that JR admitted he was the one who broke it. I wonder if they tested for "touch" DNA on the window latch, chair or doorknob on the inside of the train room (or outside of the wineceller, for that reason).
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  10. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    I think these are very good questions, Britt. I have a big spider who spins a web at the corner of our patio door, next to the light. On a regular basis I sweep it away because I can't stand spiders and hate to see insects caught in a web. If I didn't do this regularly, this web would be covered in dust from the trees and the flying insects would be able to walk on it.

    Probably the dust on the Ramsey web came from the trees too, but as you said not necessarily old, because if I left this web alone, it would be covered in dust. I have to wipe our picnic table every day because of the dust. So ...your question is not a dumb one, Britt.

    About the sound of scraping metal, I doubt if it had been the shelves, the sound would have been heard by a neighbour, but it could have been John Ramsey making that sound himself by lifting the actual grate in the basement room for this purpose alone - hoping a neighbour would hear it! (?).
    Thanks, Elle

    Elle and DeeDee - Re the scraping metal - it seems to me that in order for the neighbor to have heard it, it would've either had to have been outside - like the grate, as you say, Elle - or something located near the broken window. Could the sound have traveled from the wine cellar through the rest of the basement and out the broken window? How else would the sound have traveled to the neighbor's?

    Back to the broken window - what I find significant is that John told his absurd break-in story very early on - to Fleet White before JBR's body was even produced. He went out of his way to "explain away" the broken window almost immediately.

    Why would he do that if it weren't connected to the crime - why bother to offer any explanation? If White asked about it, why not just say, "oh yeah, that's been broken for a while." If he wanted White and the police to think the window was an intruder's entry, why on earth would he say he broke it himself when he could just say nothing and let the window speak for itself?

    The only thing that makes sense is that he wanted White to believe that the broken window was NOT related to JBR's dead body they were about to "find." WHY?

  11. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    There are a few things that could have caused the "metal scraping concrete" sound. One thing could have been someone moving the paint cans in the woneceller to make room for JB's body. The other was moving the large piece of sheet metal that had been in there, too. Either one would make that sound on the concrete floor.
    I don't think the neighbours would hear anything moved inside the basement, DeeDee. I'm thinking the noise of the iron window guard outside the house being removed, or replaced back in it's concrete frame would make a noise which could carry to the neighbour's house (?).
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  12. #24

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    I wonder if that scraping sound is even related to this crime at all? Was it definitely pinpointed to the Ramsey house? Could it just be a coincidence?



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