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  1. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    I wonder if that scraping sound is even related to this crime at all? Was it definitely pinpointed to the Ramsey house? Could it just be a coincidence?
    Karen


    I think it was the neighbour Stanton who heard the scream, however, we have different times of her death starting off with 11:00 pm. It's hard to know what to believe with this case (?).
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  2. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Karen


    I think it was the neighbour Stanton who heard the scream, however, we have different times of her death starting off with 11:00 pm. It's hard to know what to believe with this case (?).
    I remember that Elle. I'm just wondering if Stanton ever said he heard that sound coming from the direction of the Ramsey house or if he could pinpoint it in any way. For all we know it could have been something completely unrelated. It wasn't the outside grate, we all know that. I think then if it was something coming from the Ramsey house it would have had to be something down inside the basement.

  3. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    I remember that Elle. I'm just wondering if Stanton ever said he heard that sound coming from the direction of the Ramsey house or if he could pinpoint it in any way. For all we know it could have been something completely unrelated. It wasn't the outside grate, we all know that. I think then if it was something coming from the Ramsey house it would have had to be something down inside the basement.
    I think it was Mrs. Stanton who heard a scream. I would need to research it. Hard to judge when one doesn 't live in the actual neigbourhood, Karen. What's the weather like in Colorado at Christmas time? Wasn't there a spattering of snow? Wouldn't people keep their windows closed?
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    I think it was Mrs. Stanton who heard a scream. I would need to research it. Hard to judge when one doesn 't live in the actual neigbourhood, Karen. What's the weather like in Colorado at Christmas time? Wasn't there a spattering of snow? Wouldn't people keep their windows closed?
    Mrs. Stanton heard the scream. The scream woke her up, but didn't wake her husband. SHE then woke her husband and he then claimed to hear the "metal scraping concrete" sound.
    The Stantons always slept with their bedroom window open, according to Mrs. Stanton. When the BPD did their "sound check" from INSIDE the R basement, they noted that there was a vent that opened to the outside in the area just outside the wineceller. They stood some officers outside at the Stanton's house and also in the master bedroom on the 3rd floor. A scream COULD be heard BOTH places, which means that if Mrs. Stanton heard that scream, anyone in the master bedroom heard it too.
    Though the weather in Colorado is cold in December, MANY people sleep with their bedroom window open a bit, for fresh air and because sometimes the heat on makes the room stuffy. When I stay at my daughter's in New York State, even in the coldest weather the guest room is hot and stuffy, so we keep a window open all night.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Britt View Post
    Okay, sorry if this is a dumb question but it's been bugging me for a while and I haven't seen any detailed explanation anywhere:

    I've studied the photos and video of the window and cobwebs, and I see the pieces/strings of cobwebs that are stuck to the jagged glass where the break occurred.

    What I don't understand is how those little strings prove that the break was old. It appears that cobwebs were probably stuck all over the window area (before the break) so why isn't it possible that the window could be broken and there could be pieces/remnants of the cobwebs still stuck to the remaining glass?

    Cobwebs are sticky and stringy. I don't see how breaking a hole in the window would wipe the window clean of all of the pieces of the cobwebs. I don't see a full, undisturbed web constructed in those jagged edges - only random strings. Why does this mean the break was old? Couldn't it mean, rather, that the preexisting web was broken along with the window pane?

    Another thought: if the break did happen before that night, I wonder if any of those shelves/racks were parked in front of the window, hiding it. I recall the neighbor's husband saying he heard the sound of metal scraping on concrete (or something like that)... could it have been one of those shelves/racks being moved away from the window and over to another wall? Purpose being, to stage an intruder break-in.
    The way I see it, Britt, is that the stagers couldn't afford to change things around too much because there might have been some people who could come forth and dispute the crime scene like the Pughs. In that regard I don't think they would move shelves around, etc., but it's possible I suppose.

  6. #30

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    Okay. Here's the thing about this broken basement window. If the lab was able to ascertain from which side the window was broken, then, I have to believe they found that it was broken from the outside. Why? Because, if they found that it was broken from the inside, then, they would have confronted John about his story. Of course, John could have said: "Well, I guess we got it fixed after I broke in." But, if he answered thusly, then, LE could have come back and said: "Well, then, who broke the window from the inside?"

    My gut feeling is that you can't determine, definitively, which side the glass was broken without observing the fall of the broken glass, but, maybe I'm wrong.

    I still believe John was making up a story about coming through that window and it was to lead Fleet and police into the scenario the stager wishes to present without being obvious....you throw some tidbits out there and let the conned come to conclusions without you suggesting it. When John pointed to his head like: "Oh drat, I should've fixed that thing.", well, that was another little tidbit for Fleet to digest...and draw conclusions on. Then when he had Fleet occupied looking for glass, he darted to the wine cellar so he could discover the body without Fleet being right at his footsteps.

    You see, John hoped the police would mention the broken basement window and discover the body but things didn't work out that way so he had to but couldn't be obvious about it.

    If you think about the whole scene, this was being played out all the time, no? I happen to believe one of the reasons the ransom note was written was for the police to discover the body and not the family. It's more suspicious if the family calls and reports a dead body in their house.

  7. #31

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    Also saying he had found the window open about an inch and closed it. He didn't tell anybody. He didn't tell anybody because he didn't actually do it. That is part of using the window to provide an entry point for an intruder. Finding it open an inch would show someone came through there. He didn't say that until his police interview. He had time to come up with that. It's part of the "using the broken window to show how the intruder got in" theory he and Smit were pushing. He embellished by saying the window was open but Fleet who was down there before him, said it wasn't. Blew that right out of the water. No wonder he grew to hate Fleet so much!

  8. #32
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    There was a LOT that LE never confronted JR or Patsy about. So I believe that even if the window glass was tested to see whether it was broken from inside our outside, that doesn't mean LE would have confronted JR about it. Personally, I don't believe they tested the window glass.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  9. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    Mrs. Stanton heard the scream. The scream woke her up, but didn't wake her husband. SHE then woke her husband and he then claimed to hear the "metal scraping concrete" sound.
    The Stantons always slept with their bedroom window open, according to Mrs. Stanton. When the BPD did their "sound check" from INSIDE the R basement, they noted that there was a vent that opened to the outside in the area just outside the wineceller. They stood some officers outside at the Stanton's house and also in the master bedroom on the 3rd floor. A scream COULD be heard BOTH places, which means that if Mrs. Stanton heard that scream, anyone in the master bedroom heard it too.
    Though the weather in Colorado is cold in December, MANY people sleep with their bedroom window open a bit, for fresh air and because sometimes the heat on makes the room stuffy. When I stay at my daughter's in New York State, even in the coldest weather the guest room is hot and stuffy, so we keep a window open all night.
    Thank you, DeeDee for replying and filling us in. You are a gem!
    So there was a vent in the Ramsey basement. The noise would carry out, for sure!
    Yes, it can be too hot with Central heating.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Also saying he had found the window open about an inch and closed it. He didn't tell anybody. He didn't tell anybody because he didn't actually do it. That is part of using the window to provide an entry point for an intruder. Finding it open an inch would show someone came through there. He didn't say that until his police interview. He had time to come up with that. It's part of the "using the broken window to show how the intruder got in" theory he and Smit were pushing. He embellished by saying the window was open but Fleet who was down there before him, said it wasn't. Blew that right out of the water. No wonder he grew to hate Fleet so much!
    I agree with you, Karen!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  11. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    Okay. Here's the thing about this broken basement window. If the lab was able to ascertain from which side the window was broken, then, I have to believe they found that it was broken from the outside. Why? Because, if they found that it was broken from the inside, then, they would have confronted John about his story. Of course, John could have said: "Well, I guess we got it fixed after I broke in." But, if he answered thusly, then, LE could have come back and said: "Well, then, who broke the window from the inside?"

    My gut feeling is that you can't determine, definitively, which side the glass was broken without observing the fall of the broken glass, but, maybe I'm wrong.

    I still believe John was making up a story about coming through that window and it was to lead Fleet and police into the scenario the stager wishes to present without being obvious....you throw some tidbits out there and let the conned come to conclusions without you suggesting it. When John pointed to his head like: "Oh drat, I should've fixed that thing.", well, that was another little tidbit for Fleet to digest...and draw conclusions on. Then when he had Fleet occupied looking for glass, he darted to the wine cellar so he could discover the body without Fleet being right at his footsteps.

    You see, John hoped the police would mention the broken basement window and discover the body but things didn't work out that way so he had to but couldn't be obvious about it.

    If you think about the whole scene, this was being played out all the time, no? I happen to believe one of the reasons the ransom note was written was for the police to discover the body and not the family. It's more suspicious if the family calls and reports a dead body in their house.

    I could believe this theory, Learnin, about the Ramseys planning on the police finding the body, and when this failed, John Ramsey had no choice but to pretend he found it himself. I did think about it before, and my husband thinks the same. He has never been involved with this case on the net. Just heard me talking about it, but as I mentioned before, he is reading Kolar's book to discuss it with me now. It is a believable theory, more than anything else!

    The wooden lock at the top of the wine cellar door stopped the police from opening it, by naturally thinking, no one was in there! Big mistake on the Ramsey's part!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Also saying he had found the window open about an inch and closed it. He didn't tell anybody. He didn't tell anybody because he didn't actually do it. That is part of using the window to provide an entry point for an intruder. Finding it open an inch would show someone came through there. He didn't say that until his police interview. He had time to come up with that. It's part of the "using the broken window to show how the intruder got in" theory he and Smit were pushing. He embellished by saying the window was open but Fleet who was down there before him, said it wasn't. Blew that right out of the water. No wonder he grew to hate Fleet so much!
    Right on!



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