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  1. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    There was a LOT that LE never confronted JR or Patsy about. So I believe that even if the window glass was tested to see whether it was broken from inside our outside, that doesn't mean LE would have confronted JR about it. Personally, I don't believe they tested the window glass.
    Personally, I don't believe they tested the window glass.

    Most likely not.

  2. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    I could believe this theory, Learnin, about the Ramseys planning on the police finding the body, and when this failed, John Ramsey had no choice but to pretend he found it himself. I did think about it before, and my husband thinks the same. He has never been involved with this case on the net. Just heard me talking about it, but as I mentioned before, he is reading Kolar's book to discuss it with me now. It is a believable theory, more than anything else!

    The wooden lock at the top of the wine cellar door stopped the police from opening it, by naturally thinking, no one was in there! Big mistake on the Ramsey's part!
    It's great that your husband is reading Kolar's book, Elle, so you can have some good discussion...who knows....you two might come up with some really
    fascinating things to consider.

  3. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    It's great that your husband is reading Kolar's book, Elle, so you can have some good discussion...who knows....you two might come up with some really
    fascinating things to consider.
    I think you're doing a good job of this yourself, Learnin. I do value Jim's opinion on many subjects. If he does come up with something different, I'll post it, but I feel a lot has already been said except for the theory of the Ramseys planning on the cops finding JonBenét first.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  4. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    ...You see, John hoped the police would mention the broken basement window and discover the body but things didn't work out that way so he had to but couldn't be obvious about it.

    If you think about the whole scene, this was being played out all the time, no? I happen to believe one of the reasons the ransom note was written was for the police to discover the body and not the family. It's more suspicious if the family calls and reports a dead body in their house.
    I definitely agree that the Ramseys wanted the police to be the ones to find the body.

    But if John wanted to plant the suggestion that the broken window was an intruder's entry point, why didn't he tell his break-in story to the police that morning? Why not mention the broken window to Arndt when he brought JBR's body up from the basement? Instead, he said it was an "inside job." He had the perfect opportunity right then to suggest how an intruder could have gotten in, yet he instead pointed to an "inside job" and a perp who "didn't mean to kill her."

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Also saying he had found the window open about an inch and closed it. He didn't tell anybody. He didn't tell anybody because he didn't actually do it. That is part of using the window to provide an entry point for an intruder. Finding it open an inch would show someone came through there. He didn't say that until his police interview. He had time to come up with that. It's part of the "using the broken window to show how the intruder got in" theory he and Smit were pushing...
    I see what you're saying, but on the other hand, John also told the story about the chair blocking the train room door. This story he also came up with long after the murder. But the chair/door scenario made it impossible (as Smit pointed out to JR) for an intruder to have used that window, thereby contradicting the broken-window-used-by-intruder scenario.

  5. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Britt View Post

    But if John wanted to plant the suggestion that the broken window was an intruder's entry point, why didn't he tell his break-in story to the police that morning? Why not mention the broken window to Arndt when he brought JBR's body up from the basement? Instead, he said it was an "inside job." He had the perfect opportunity right then to suggest how an intruder could have gotten in, yet he instead pointed to an "inside job" and a perp who "didn't mean to kill her."
    For the first point, I would say, if John was wanting investigators to suspicion the window as point of entry, he would want them to make that connection without him (John) suggesting it. He throws the ball out there and he wants Fleet and the detectives to run with it.

    The investigators never mentioned the broken window that morning, and since John would not consent to interviews where investigators could quiz him about the window, Lou Smit took care of it for him by coming up with the intruder theory. Lou Smit took John's ball and ran with it, IMO. After Lou ran with it, then, John scored.

    But, let's consider your first question because it is a good one. Why didn't John tell investigators, that morning, about the broken basement window? Why didn't he Arndt about it when he found it open an inch when down there around 10 in the morning? He knew investigators were looking for a point of entry. I think this shows, once again, that John wanted investigators to make the connection and not draw suspicion on himself by suggesting it. He wouldn't even mention the broken window to Fleet!

    Now. Why did John tell Arndt that it was an inside job and remark that "he
    didn't want to kill her"?

    Maybe two reasons:

    1. Maybe they were trying to pin the kidnapping on a family acquaintance

    and:

    2. If their staging attempt failed, then, he had to soften the blow for the actual perp..if the actual perp was fingered by LE.

    Nothing fits perfectly in this mystery, that's for sure.

    I'm still wondering, at what point, John became involved in the coverup. Was it from the git go or after 10 o'clock when he made his jaunt through the basement?

  6. #42

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    I agree about Lou Smit. I think Johns story started to jell with Lou Smits "help." That could be a reason why he said what he said that day when he found her. He hadn't yet figured out everything about this window story. And that's why it all sounds so ridiculous trying to explain about that chair. He had committed to a story and then had to try and explain that dang chair. He probably didn't expect that to come up so he didn't have an answer for it and thinking on the fly he ended up with an unbelievably silly comment about the chair.

  7. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    I agree about Lou Smit. I think Johns story started to jell with Lou Smits "help." That could be a reason why he said what he said that day when he found her. He hadn't yet figured out everything about this window story. And that's why it all sounds so ridiculous trying to explain about that chair. He had committed to a story and then had to try and explain that dang chair. He probably didn't expect that to come up so he didn't have an answer for it and thinking on the fly he ended up with an unbelievably silly comment about the chair.
    Good point. I was re-reading Kolar's book tonight where he gives John's chronological statements. At one point, I think it was the April 1997 interviews, or the 1998 DA's interviews, John tells questioners that he believes he might have mentioned the broken window to Arndt??? He, also, stated in later statements (was it DOI) that he was concerned about that suitcase when he made his first trip to the basement.....IT WAS OUT OF PLACE. Now, in a basement that messy, and in a basement that John admittedly hardly visited, how would he know what was out of place???

    These people are as slippery as a greased pig.

  8. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Britt View Post
    Okay, sorry if this is a dumb question but it's been bugging me for a while and I haven't seen any detailed explanation anywhere:

    I've studied the photos and video of the window and cobwebs, and I see the pieces/strings of cobwebs that are stuck to the jagged glass where the break occurred.

    What I don't understand is how those little strings prove that the break was old. It appears that cobwebs were probably stuck all over the window area (before the break) so why isn't it possible that the window could be broken and there could be pieces/remnants of the cobwebs still stuck to the remaining glass?

    Cobwebs are sticky and stringy. I don't see how breaking a hole in the window would wipe the window clean of all of the pieces of the cobwebs. I don't see a full, undisturbed web constructed in those jagged edges - only random strings. Why does this mean the break was old? Couldn't it mean, rather, that the preexisting web was broken along with the window pane?

    Another thought: if the break did happen before that night, I wonder if any of those shelves/racks were parked in front of the window, hiding it. I recall the neighbor's husband saying he heard the sound of metal scraping on concrete (or something like that)... could it have been one of those shelves/racks being moved away from the window and over to another wall? Purpose being, to stage an intruder break-in.
    I think the whole thing about the undisturbed spider webs and dirt is to show that no one could have gone through that window that night without breaking ALL of the webs AND causing a lot of dirt and leaves to shower down into the room below. Thus completely discrediting Lou Smit's fictional intruder.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  9. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    I think it was Mrs. Stanton who heard a scream. I would need to research it. Hard to judge when one doesn 't live in the actual neigbourhood, Karen. What's the weather like in Colorado at Christmas time? Wasn't there a spattering of snow? Wouldn't people keep their windows closed?
    I grew up in Denver. We *always* had a window cracked open for sleeping, even in winter. Probably especially in winter. There's something about sleeping with fresh air coming in...Wish I could still do it, but it doesn't work in all climates! Only the ones with a significant cool-down at night!

    It would not have been unusual for any neighbor to have a window or two slightly open that night.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    I grew up in Denver. We *always* had a window cracked open for sleeping, even in winter. Probably especially in winter. There's something about sleeping with fresh air coming in...Wish I could still do it, but it doesn't work in all climates! Only the ones with a significant cool-down at night!

    It would not have been unusual for any neighbor to have a window or two slightly open that night.
    Here in Canada, heymom, the winters are freezing cold, but we do open the bathroom window off the bedroom about an inch, so it's not coming right in and freezing us. Of all places my husband had to pick Canada to emigrate to. He had an engineering job waiting for him here. I almost chickened out, but that's another story!

    Maybe Mrs. Stanton had her window open a tad. I don't think Colorado would be as cold as Canada.

    About the dust on the cobwebs Britt was talking about. I'm keeping my eye on a cobweb which is on a bush just close to one of the windows down here. I want to see how long it takes for the dust to cover it. We have a lot of trees and I'm tired of cleaning my picnic table. I took a photo of it a few days ago, and I'll wait until it's covered in dust and take another one.
    Last edited by Elle_1; September 27, 2012, 7:04 am at Thu Sep 27 7:04:24 UTC 2012.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  11. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Here in Canada, heymom, the winters are freezing cold, but we do open the bathroom window off the bedroom about an inch, so it's not coming right in and freezing us. Of all places my husband had to pick Canada to emigrate to. He had an engineering jon waiting for him here. I almost
    chickened out, but that's another story!

    Maybe Mrs. Stanton had her window open a tad. I don't think Colorado would be as cold as Canada.

    About the dust on the cobwebs Britt was talking about. I'm keeping my eye on a cobweb which is on a bush just close to one of the windows down here. I want to see how long it takes for the dust to cover it. We have a lot of trees and I'm tired of cleaning my picnic table. I took a photo of it a few days ago, and I'll wait until it's covered in dust and take another one.
    Mrs. Stanton did say she always slept with her bedroom window open, and it had been open that night. I don't recall if she said how much it was open, but I doubt it was all the way. I imagine it was a few inches.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    Mrs. Stanton did say she always slept with her bedroom window open, and it had been open that night. I don't recall if she said how much it was open, but I doubt it was all the way. I imagine it was a few inches.

    I guess this was how she heard it DeeDee. I wonder if her house was right next to the Ramseys (?).

    Please feel free to correct my spelling mistakes. Should have read engineering job in my post. :(
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.



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