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  1. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon View Post
    The house is listed as having 7,240-square-feet:

    http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_17443014

    Like you said, the front view does not show the additions that have been made in the back, and one may get the impression of a much smaller house.

    On page 7 (middle picture) of this photo gallery of the house and rooms (redecorated by Carol Schuller Milner), one can see what looks like an addition:

    http://blogs.westword.com/latestword...tos.php?page=7

    Did the Ramseys have these parts added to the original building?
    Oh good grief, rashomon! This looks quite a big house to me, folks! (?). Just seeing the front doesn't give one the full dimensions! Mama Mia!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  2. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    You can definitely determine the direction of impact in a glass failure, I would say almost always, if you have the pieces. When something hits a glass panel, ridges form concave to the direction of the impact. They’re called Wallner lines:

    http://www.flachglas-service.de/en/c...ner_lines.html

    You can also usually tell if it was low, medium, or high impact. The basement window was plain old ordinary glass, non-tempered, brittle, and probably didn't need to be hit that hard.

    I would say that the BPD could have figured out whether the glass window was broken from inside or outside, based on what was left of the window on December 26. That was a common law enforcement skill even in 1996.

    Here's a summary of a 2004 FBI guideline on glass fractures:

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/fore...standards7.htm
    Also, that window had a wooden trim across the glass, which would have been fairly easy to break had something as large as a man's foot been put through it from the outside. If the impact of whatever broke the glass was fairly focused on that one part of the window, the wooden trim on the inside might not have been touched, but a larger impact surface would have definitely broken the trim. So, what I am saying is that whatever broke that window was not a large object. Could have been a golf ball, maybe a golf club, unlikely to have been a man's foot with a shoe on.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  3. #87

    Default Fractography and Interviews

    One of the things I occasionally get involved with in my work (the work that pays the bills, that is) is failure analysis of metals. I would imagine that glass failure analysis is very similar. The Wallner lines are what we refer to as "beach marks" (looking at them makes it obvious why they are called that). I found a fairly short technical paper published by Corning that may be interesting to those who want to know more about it:
    https://globalcommhost.com/corning/d...gs/TIP_201.pdf


    On another point (since the interviews were brought up)... Maybe this is not new to others, but I ran across a thread a couple of days ago while looking for something else. There was a poster on WS named Blue Crab who seems to have mysteriously disappeared years ago, and who seemed to have some connection with Nat'l Examiner. Apparently he/she had access to some of the transcripts of the 1998 interviews that have not been released to the general public.

    I don't know who Blue Crab was (I was in semi-retirement at the time he/she appeared), or anything about him/her, so I can't vouch for the validity of what was posted. But I found this thread just too interesting to not bring up. In post #11, this is what is especially interesting (bbm):

    TOM HANEY: "So you said it wasn't you and it wasn't John. Could it have been Burke?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "No. It wouldn't have been Burke."

    TOM HANEY: "Why couldn't it?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "How do you believe you saw (inaudible) a ten year old, nine year old boy (inaudible). Plus the fact that he loved his sister."

    TOM HANEY: "It's not unheard of for a nine or ten year old child?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "My child is unheard of."

    TOM HANEY: "And why is that? What would make him different from some other nine or ten year old?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "Because he was not raised in a family of violence. We are a very loving family."

    TOM HANEY: "Could it have been an accident?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "I -- don't know."
    I would love to see the tape of this interview. What was she thinking? Was she considering accepting "an accident" for an excuse? How long would the pause while she was thinking have to be that the transcriber felt it needed to be written in? Obviously, even in 1998, BPD had considered BR as a suspect, and I think they almost broke PR at that moment.

  4. #88

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    Thanks for bringing this up, OTG! I believe it is very relevant to understanding what happened and is probably as close to the truth as Patsy ever got when being questioned.

    I had posted that same exchange, with a bit more of the interview (it must have been released somewhere, because we have a copy here at FFJ), on the "So Many Abrasions" thread back in July because I thought it was so important.

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...2&postcount=38

    I think it is revealing because of not only because of what Patsy says, but it also shows her coming out of her "acting job" of innocent, even-tempered mother with a burst of emotion!

    PATSY RAMSEY: "Burke Ramsey did not do this, okay. He did not do this. Get off it."

    Instead of Patsy's usual hemming and hawing and wandering around the topic, she gets very direct in her answers. There is "yes" and "no" and "get off it" except for when Haney asks, "could it have been an accident?" Instead of saying the expected, "no," Patsy says:

    PATSY RAMSEY: "I -- don't know."

  5. #89

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    Hey, Cherokee. I re-read your July post since you brought it up. I guess it didn't really sink into my thick skull at the time just how telling this exchange was. Or, maybe after seeing that picture just below your post when I read it, I got consumed with finding a good picture of the Addams Family.

    One of our best posters over at WS contacted me after I posted this and told me the interview was in the NE book, JonBenet: The Police Files. (Looks like I'll be ordering another book soon.)

  6. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by otg View Post
    Hey, Cherokee. I re-read your July post since you brought it up. I guess it didn't really sink into my thick skull at the time just how telling this exchange was. Or, maybe after seeing that picture just below your post when I read it, I got consumed with finding a good picture of the Addams Family.

    One of our best posters over at WS contacted me after I posted this and told me the interview was in the NE book, JonBenet: The Police Files. (Looks like I'll be ordering another book soon.)
    I didn't realize you don't know we have a case library here, otg. The transcript in full which you seek is on this forum, whereas the National Enquirer book, while useful at the time because we'd never seen those transcripts before Team Ramsey sold them through Jameson and the tabloid published them, was incomplete, edited for length, no doubt.

    Here is the passage you are referencing:

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...ead.php?t=9945

    24 TOM HANEY: So you said it wasn't
    25 you and it wasn't John. Could it have been
    0620
    1 Burke?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: No. It wouldn't
    3 have been Burke.
    4 TOM HANEY: Why couldn't it?
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: How do you believe
    6 you saw (INAUDIBLE) a ten-year old, nine-year
    7 old boy (INAUDIBLE). Plus the fact that he
    8 loved his sister.
    9 TOM HANEY: It's not unheard of for
    10 a nine or ten-year old child?
    11 PATSY RAMSEY: My child it is
    12 unheard of.
    13 TOM HANEY: And why is that? What
    14 would make him different from some other nine or
    15 ten-year old?
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: Because he was not
    17 raised in a family of violence. We are a very
    18 loving family.
    19 TOM HANEY: Could it have been an
    20 accident?
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: I -- don't know.
    22 TOM HANEY: Well you and I don't
    23 know because we weren't there?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    25 TOM HANEY: So do you think it
    0621
    1 could have been, he could have pushed her down
    2 the stairs--
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: Burke Ramsey did not
    4 do this, okay. He did not do this. Get off it.
    5 TOM HANEY: How do you know that,
    6 though? I mean, have you talked to him about
    7 it?
    8 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, we are going
    9 to find out who did this to JonBenet. He's been
    10 in counseling, doctors say that he's handling this
    11 the way that a child copes best with the death of
    12 a very close family member. I doubt that a nine
    13 or ten-year old child could harbor such a thing
    14 for a year and a half.
    15 TOM HANEY: And you say they were
    16 very close?
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: They were very
    18 close.
    19 TOM HANEY: Okay. Did they ever
    20 have any little squabbles, did they ever fight?
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: Maybe she would
    22 step on his Leg-O's, he would be unhappy.
    23 TOM HANEY: But that was it?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Or you know, no
    25 violence (INAUDIBLE).
    0622
    1 TOM HANEY: He wouldn't chase after
    2 her, "JonBenet, I am going to " --
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: No way.
    4 TOM HANEY: No? That was as upset
    5 as he ever got?
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Pretty much

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
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    3 Dimensional

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  7. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    You can definitely determine the direction of impact in a glass failure, I would say almost always, if you have the pieces. When something hits a glass panel, ridges form concave to the direction of the impact. They’re called Wallner lines:

    http://www.flachglas-service.de/en/c...ner_lines.html

    You can also usually tell if it was low, medium, or high impact. The basement window was plain old ordinary glass, non-tempered, brittle, and probably didn't need to be hit that hard.

    I would say that the BPD could have figured out whether the glass window was broken from inside or outside, based on what was left of the window on December 26. That was a common law enforcement skill even in 1996.

    Here's a summary of a 2004 FBI guideline on glass fractures:

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/fore...standards7.htm
    Thanks so much, wombat. It seemed logical to me that LE would know if the glass was broken from the inside or outside.

    But as we know, so many things easily determined in this case have never been addressed or have been hidden or even destroyed, I fear.

    I'll check that link out. Thanks again.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  8. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon View Post
    Would it ibe possible in any form to ask J. Kolar (through Tricia maybe) whether he knows if testing could establish from which side the window had been broken?
    I don't know. I did ask Tricia if maybe he'd take questions from her forums, so we could all submit those we'd like to ask. She said she'd ask, but he was busy at the time, so maybe we can do that one day.

    I have a looooooooooong list, I might add. lol If we get the chance, Tricia probably will say one question per person or some such--I almost choked when she told us 2 questions each on her podcast show...WHAT?! I know we were nearly ready to climb over each other to get to Kolar...I have a stun gun I'll be using on cynic next time....
    Attached Images Attached Images  

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  9. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I don't know. I did ask Tricia if maybe he'd take questions from her forums, so we could all submit those we'd like to ask. She said she'd ask, but he was busy at the time, so maybe we can do that one day.

    I have a looooooooooong list, I might add. lol If we get the chance, Tricia probably will say one question per person or some such--I almost choked when she told us 2 questions each on her podcast show...WHAT?! I know we were nearly ready to climb over each other to get to Kolar...I have a stun gun I'll be using on cynic next time....



    Or the fishslap....
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  10. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post


    Or the fishslap....
    Or I may have to go ninja on him....
    Attached Images Attached Images  

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  11. #95
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    Originally Posted by rashomon
    Would it ibe possible in any form to ask J. Kolar (through Tricia maybe) whether he knows if testing could establish from which side the window had been broken?
    Koldkase:
    I don't know. I did ask Tricia if maybe he'd take questions from her forums, so we could all submit those we'd like to ask. She said she'd ask, but he was busy at the time, so maybe we can do that one day.

    I have a looooooooooong list, I might add. lol If we get the chance, Tricia probably will say one question per person or some such--I almost choked when she told us 2 questions each on her podcast show...WHAT?! I know we were nearly ready to climb over each other to get to Kolar...I have a stun gun I'll be using on cynic next time....

    KK.

    I wouldn't have patience for all that hanging around one has to go through, One has to admire Tricia for controlling it all! Not easy! I do admire all of the FFJ people who have spoken on the radio. You have all done a great job!
    Last edited by Elle_1; October 4, 2012, 9:17 pm at Thu Oct 4 21:17:28 UTC 2012.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  12. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    KK.

    I wouldn't have patience for all that hanging around one has to go through, One has to admire Tricia for controlling it all! Not easy! I do admire all of the FFJ people who have spoken on the radio. You have all done a great job!
    Thank you so much, Elle. Ever our faithful cheerleader. I do appreciate it more than words can say, especially since it's the only satisfaction we're ever going to get out all the time we've all put into this case.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.



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