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  1. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Some time later, they got back to "duct tape": I believe the photo they're looking at here is the one of the blanket, where the duct tape had fallen sticky side up, and the tape was white/gray on that side, which confused a lot of us until we bought some and found that out.
    I have a different take on the well known blanket picture.
    I believe there is a good possibility that the “silver/white/grey” seen there is an overexposed shadow.




    Here is picture I took to try to replicate what I believe was happening.



  2. #14

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    Wow, cynic! I got caught up in reading the transcript...again...and you've done all the work. I may put that fruit basket back in storage for the time being.

    I have some very interesting quotes from this interview I'd like to bring into this later in the thread, regarding the cord--which lead me to believe "someone" told LE John owned cord like that used on the child, and I'm thinking it may have been Fleet White, as much as Team Ramsey has tried to ruin him through the years.

    For now, I'm going to post the section I was just studying though you've posted most already with your observations. If I stop to study your posts I will lose my thoughts with the excerpt I'm working on, so sorry to repeat.

    Mainly I want to include where John implicates Fleet White into it...again. JR is ALL OVER THE PLACE with this duct tape--he knows it, has it, used it, no he doesn't and he hasn't, maybe, but Fleet does, Patsy may or may not, it looks different, but he remembers exact details like how sticky it was when he pulled it off the body, how the edges were cut but not torn....

    You've probably pointed all this out, as well, but in case not, I'll just put this here and come back and delete later.

    BECAUSE THIS IS WILD:

    [It's all about the duct tape so I won't distract by using red highlights.]

    21 JOHN RAMSEY: We are way beyond the
    22 point of being embarrassed by anything. Our
    23 whole lives is out in public, most of the stuff
    24 isn't even true so I am certainly not a perfect
    25 individual and there is things I am not proud of
    0594
    1 in my life.
    2 VOICE: I assure you we take the
    3 point and we know that you're dealing with.
    4 LOU SMIT: I am going to show you
    5 another item. It's a roll of tape.
    6 JOHN RAMSEY: This looks certainly
    7 similar in color but it looks much wider than I
    8 recall. I tried to remember, I would say that
    9 it must be that kind of width.
    10 LOU SMIT: What would you measure
    11 that to be?
    12 JOHN RAMSEY: Like an inch maybe.
    13 LOU SMIT: An inch wide?
    14 JOHN RAMSEY: That I am saying is
    15 the width that I remember.
    16 LOU SMIT: Okay. Color the
    17 same?
    18 JOHN RAMSEY: It's close.
    19 LOU SMIT: What about the
    20 texture and the looks of it?
    21 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember the
    22 texture, I mean it looks close. It's not too
    23 far off.
    24 LOU SMIT: Would you look at
    25 the back (INAUDIBLE)?
    0595
    1 JOHN RAMSEY: Gee, I am
    2 having such a hard time but what I
    3 remember about it was it, it was cut
    4 squarely, it wasn't torn or wasn't too
    5 much. It was just a very properly cut
    6 piece of tape.
    7 LOU SMIT: That was your
    8 impression?
    9 JOHN RAMSEY: That was my -- as I
    10 remember it. But it was black, it was a bit
    11 narrower than that.
    12 LOU SMIT: Was it light in
    13 that room or how could you tell?
    14 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, I don't know.
    15 It just seemed light enough. And I don't
    16 remember if I turned on the light or not, but.
    17 LOU SMIT: I mean did you
    18 look at the ends?
    19 JOHN RAMSEY: No, just an
    20 impression, you know, and as I thought about it
    21 later, that's what I remember.
    22 LOU SMIT: Now John, I know
    23 we are touching right back on a very
    24 delicate spot, but was this tape wrapped
    25 around anywhere, was it stuck down?
    0596
    1 JOHN RAMSEY: No, it was very firm
    2 across her lips.
    3 LOU SMIT: And you recall
    4 that?
    5 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
    6 LOU SMIT: And why did you have to
    7 work at it to get this tape off?
    8 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I mean just came
    9 off, it wasn't loose, it was tight enough.
    10 LOU SMIT: Fine, we won't go
    11 into any more of that. But have you ever
    12 seen anything like this before? This is
    13 really critical, because our -- the
    14 killer left that behind, there is no doubt
    15 about that. It's a clue that we have.
    16 JOHN RAMSEY: Is this the size
    17 of the tape?
    18 MIKE KANE: Yes, it is.
    19 JOHN RAMSEY: I thought it was
    20 narrower.
    21 VOICE: When you say he left that
    22 behind, do you mean he left a roll behind?
    23 LOU SMIT: No, he left the
    24 tape behind.
    25 VOICE: Just the tape that we
    0597
    1 find that was on her mouth?
    2 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, if I were to
    3 speculate that's something that Fleet White
    4 would have, which --
    5 LOU SMIT: And why would you
    6 say that, have you ever seen anything like
    7 that?
    8 JOHN RAMSEY: Maybe, you know,
    9 I can't -- I can't remember for sure, but Fleet
    10 had -- when we got, went up to get our boat
    11 ready for this Mackinaw, Mackinaw race was a
    12 300-mile race, Fleet had some special tapes, I
    13 remember white tape. And possibly I remember
    14 black duct tape. The only kind of duct tape I
    15 have ever seen a gray.
    16 LOU SMIT: Did you have gray
    17 duct tape in your house?
    18 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. Certainly
    19 did. Gray duct tape.
    20 LOU SMIT: Do you know where
    21 you would have purchased it or got it or
    22 anything about it?
    23 JOHN RAMSEY: Um, no. Um, I mean
    24 I don't know that I ever used it but -- I know
    25 I have used gray duct tape before.
    0598
    1 LOU SMIT: Do you believe you
    2 used it in your house here or where?
    3 JOHN RAMSEY: I think I have used
    4 it up at the lake. So it doesn't -- some duct
    5 work there, you know, I don't know that I have
    6 ever used it in Boulder. Because we had steam
    7 heat, steam and hot water heat.
    8 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE). We
    9 have to try to find that someone that has
    10 that. How often have you seen black duct
    11 tape?
    12 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't recall that
    13 I ever have. But if I try to imagine back,
    14 (INAUDIBLE) see this, this feels like, see you
    15 never use duct tape on a boat. It's too --
    16 it's got too much adhesive. It would just leave
    17 a big mess. I think what I would be curious
    18 about is this adhesive, less adhesive than you
    19 find on standard duct tape, which kind of feels
    20 like it is, but I haven't looked at duct tape in
    21 a while.
    22 But if -- if it, I mean if it is
    23 more specialized than just plain old duct tape,
    24 you know, one of the purposes would be to so it
    25 didn't leave such a mess, this duct tape.
    0599
    1 LOU SMIT: Any friend, any of
    2 your friends, any of the people at Access
    3 Graphics, anybody that -- if we are
    4 hunting for a killer here we have to find
    5 somebody that has that, and that's where
    6 questions have to be asked. Who would
    7 have something like that? Somebody has
    8 seen somebody with that? That's why we to
    9 check all this out with you. Did anybody
    10 see you with this type of duct tape? We
    11 have to eliminate that.
    12 We just ask you, you say no,
    13 there is no way that we know that, that's
    14 why we have to check these records and we
    15 have to check everything, if we find that
    16 you have it that's not going to look too
    17 good. If we find that you don't have it,
    18 that's going to look a lot better.
    19 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't recognize
    20 it. I don't think I have anything like this.
    21 MIKE KANE: Okay.
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: Is this -- can
    23 you buy this stuff in a hardware store?
    24 LOU SMIT: I think that they
    25 checked all over the place, to find
    0600
    1 various areas, and they have a list of
    2 different places I am sure that sell this.
    3 But again, can you remember buying any
    4 duct tape anywhere in town?
    5 JOHN RAMSEY: I, I can't certainly
    6 can't remember, and if I would have bought duct
    7 tape I think it would have been gray.
    8 MIKE KANE: How about Patsy?
    9 JOHN RAMSEY: Um.
    10 MIKE KANE: Project?
    11 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it's possible.
    12 MIKE KANE: Christmas decorating I
    13 mean --
    14 JOHN RAMSEY: It's possible.
    15 You know she, we had lots of glue and Scotch
    16 tape and stuff like that around. Packing tape,
    17 clear packing tape. Brown packing tape.
    18 But -- the only time I ever remember duct tape
    19 was gray duct tape. And it's more fibery, it's
    20 got more fibers in it. It's tougher. It's also
    21 got a little more adhesive on it.
    22 LOU SMIT: Before we take a
    23 break, Mike, what I would like to do and then we
    24 will get back in, there is an area here, in
    25 order to determine, a lot of things are going to
    0601
    1 have to be determined. Let's say you wrote out
    2 a check for duct tape. People want to know if
    3 you did or didn't.
    We are going to need a lot
    4 of records from you, do you have any objection
    5 to signing waivers for records? I mean,
    6 yourself.
    Here is an evidence photos of the duct tape JR took of the child's mouth, white/gray side shown:

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  3. #15
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    Yes, KK and cynic, I noticed John was confused about the black tape. I thought over the years, Patsy and John kept putting their foot in it forgetting what they had said before!

    Thank you for all your posts. Way back when I first started I did more research with my books than I do now, so this is why I do appreciate the time taken by you, KK and the others who post all this valuable information. You sure keep us all updated!

    I noted vey quickly, where he implicates Fleet White. Crafty! He reached the top of the pyramid in business because he was a crafty son-of-a-gun!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  4. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I may put that fruit basket back in storage for the time being.
    Hey wait a minute, what do you mean, may and time being???
    You've probably pointed all this out, as well, but in case not, I'll just put this here and come back and delete later.
    I pointed out that John tried to cast the long shadow of suspicion on Fleet, but you have included more context.
    BECAUSE THIS IS WILD:
    It is.

  5. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Yes, KK and cynic, I noticed John was confused about the black tape. I thought over the years, Patsy and John kept putting their foot in it forgetting what they had said before!

    Thank you for all your posts. Way back when I first started I did more research with my books than I do now, so this is why I do appreciate the time taken by you, KK and the others who post all this valuable information. You sure keep us all updated!

    I noted vey quickly, where he implicates Fleet White. Crafty! He reached the top of the pyramid in business because he was a crafty son-of-a-gun!
    Hey Elle, thanks.

    The blame game was rampant in those interviews.
    I find it amusing that essentially what happened with the tape questioning was this:
    Question: Who’s tape is this?
    Patsy: Not mine, ask John.
    John: Not mine, ask Fleet White

  6. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    Let’s establish John’s knowledge of duct tape:

    JOHN RAMSEY: Well it's just it wasn't a tape that looked familiar to me, or it looked like it wasn't torn, it was cut perfectly, literally, that it fit her mouth. It was black, it wider than electrical tape, but not as wide as duct tape. I mean I know what duct tape is; it wasn't duct tape.

    So far, he says he knows what duct tape is and he is sure this isn’t duct tape.

    Does he know?


    LOU SMIT: I am going to show you another item. It's a roll of tape.
    JOHN RAMSEY: This looks certainly similar in color but it looks much wider than I recall. I tried to remember, I would say that it must be that kind of width.
    It's smaller, not as wide, not as sticky, either! After all, JR spent a total of half a second with that duct tape, according to his story, so he'd know.


    JOHN RAMSEY: Gee, I am having such a hard time but what I remember about it was it, it was cut squarely, it wasn't torn or wasn't too much. It was just a very properly cut piece of tape.
    LOU SMIT: That was your impression?
    JOHN RAMSEY: That was my -- as I remember it. But it was black, it was a bit narrower than that.
    LOU SMIT: Was it light in that room or how could you tell?
    JOHN RAMSEY: Well, I don't know. It just seemed light enough. And I don't remember if I turned on the light or not,
    but.
    LOU SMIT: I mean did you look at the ends?
    JOHN RAMSEY: No, just an impression, you know
    , and as I thought about it later, that's what I remember.
    And he had half a second to notice how sticky it was, the width and weight, too, plus how it was cut, not torn. So glad Lou "WORLD-CLASS DETECTIVE" Smit noticed things like how implausible JR's story was, yet managed to dismiss it ALL and declare the Ramseys innocent! INNOCENT, HE SAID!!


    LOU SMIT: Fine, we won't go into any more of that. But have you ever seen anything like this before? This is really critical, because our -- the killer left that behind, there is no doubt about that. It's a clue that we have.
    JOHN RAMSEY: Is this the size of the tape?
    MIKE KANE: Yes, it is.
    JOHN RAMSEY: I thought it was narrower.

    VOICE: When you say he left that behind, do you mean he left a roll behind?
    LOU SMIT: No, he left the tape behind.
    VOICE: Just the tape that we find that was on her mouth?
    JOHN RAMSEY: Well, if I were to speculate that's something that Fleet White
    would have, which --
    LOU SMIT: And why would you say that, have you ever seen anything like that?
    JOHN RAMSEY: Maybe, you know, I can't -- I can't remember for sure, but Fleet had -- when we got, went up to get our boat ready for this Mackinaw, Mackinaw race was a 300-mile race, Fleet had some special tapes, I remember white tape. And possibly I remember black duct tape. The only kind of duct tape I have ever seen a gray.
    Oh, good, then the Whites are out of the suspect pool because JR only ever saw gray duct tape...except possibly Fleet had black...which JR never saw.



    LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE). We have to try to find that someone that has that. How often have you seen black duct tape?
    JOHN RAMSEY: I don't recall that I ever have
    .


    John is at his finest here.
    JR is shown a roll of tape which is the same width as the tape from JBR’s mouth.
    He claims that the tape that he removed was black, but was narrower, and despite the fact he doesn’t remember whether the light was on or off, he remembers that the tape “was cut squarely, it wasn't torn or wasn't too much. It was just a very properly cut piece of tape.”
    He further claims that the only duct tape he has ever seen is grey, and that he has never seen black duct tape.
    And then, to top it all off, he casts suspicion on Fleet.

    It was a standard black duct tape, here is Henry Lee speaking about it:
    KURTIS: Dr. Lee, didn't you take a look at some tape in the JonBenet Ramsey case, reexamine it?
    LEE: Yes. Yes, I did. Yes.
    KURTIS: And there was nothing became of that.
    LEE: Well, that's a two-inch tape and it's been used. It's not like the Laci Peterson case, which, as I say, I cannot comment too much on that.
    http://edition.cnn.hu/TRANSCRIPTS/0311/03/lkl.00.html
    You pretty much hit the high...low?...points, cynic.

    Patsy was down with the duct tape spin in classic Southern Foreign Faction style when she said didn't know nothing 'bout no duct tape, ask Mr. John Ramsey, please!

    She and JR brought the poor Whites into it every single chance they got. And why not? Clearly the Whites had given up much info on the Ramseys which Team Ramsey wanted to counter in a potential trial by pointing the finger...AT THE WHITES.

    Which brings me to something you mentioned: the questions about the cord.

    And I want to address that part about the cord in another post.
    Last edited by koldkase; December 31, 2012, 7:20 pm at Mon Dec 31 19:20:21 UTC 2012.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  7. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    Hey wait a minute, what do you mean, may and time being???
    Perhaps I need to point out I'm a card-carrying member of the SFF. We have standards. Turning soft isn't one of them.

    Remember our fearless leader:

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  8. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    I have a different take on the well known blanket picture.
    I believe there is a good possibility that the “silver/white/grey” seen there is an overexposed shadow.




    Here is picture I took to try to replicate what I believe was happening.


    It's an interesting idea. I see your point. It's a tough one.

    To cast such a shadow, the object casting the shadow would have to be between the lighting and the blanket, as you know. I don't see any extension of that shadow which would indicate the rectangular object was held up between the light source and the blanket, so I can't get a clear idea of what you're imagining.

    But I did buy some black duct tape at a Wal-Mart or maybe Lowe's, at the time--we're talking maybe 10 years ago? The black duct tape had a grayish/whitish/silverish color, or lack thereof, on the sticky side, with the lines of the weave just as that in the close-up of the actual light side of the tape I included.

    It's a cloth tape, you no doubt know.

    Because of this, once I had similar tape in my hands, I had no problem concluding that tape on the blanket was the actual duct tape from the mouth.

    But of course, I could be wrong.
    Last edited by koldkase; December 31, 2012, 7:19 pm at Mon Dec 31 19:19:07 UTC 2012.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  9. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    Hey Elle, thanks.

    The blame game was rampant in those interviews.
    I find it amusing that essentially what happened with the tape questioning was this:
    Question: Who’s tape is this?
    Patsy: Not mine, ask John.
    John: Not mine, ask Fleet White
    Yeah, you pretty much summed it up there.

    Another thing I noticed: those kidnappers sure were sticklers for things being done PROPERLY.

    1 JOHN RAMSEY: Gee, I am
    2 having such a hard time but what I
    3 remember about it was it, it was cut
    4 squarely, it wasn't torn or wasn't too
    5 much. It was just a very properly cut
    6 piece of tape.

    Proper burials. Proper tape-cutting techniques.

    Sheesh, no wonder LE hasn't found the intruders in 16 years!

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  10. #22

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    So it appears that someone who knew them seemed to think the Ramseys also had a quantity of that ligature cord around. No names of course but....

    Boy, John and Patsy could barely get into a tight squeeze when they didn't hit the gas and run that bus over the Whites.

    22 LOU SMIT: Okay. Another thing, you said
    23 you used to walk through the mall, you used to go
    24 to various restaurants and things like that. Are
    25 you acquainted with the "Bulk and Army" store?

    0398
    1 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
    2 LOU SMIT: Do you ever go in there?
    3 JOHN RAMSEY: I have been there once that
    4 I can remember. Maybe twice. I went in there, I
    5 think it was probably in the winter of '95 because
    6 we were getting ready for a (IANUDIBLE) and we
    7 were doing that (INAUDIBLE) during that summer of
    8 '95. I was looking for some camping stuff. We
    9 needed some silverware to take. It wasn't too big,
    10 to take on a boat trip. It was a long distance
    11 race.
    12 But I don't remember if I bought anything
    13 there or not. I might have gone in there with
    14 Burke or John Andrew, just walking by. But that
    15 was it.
    16 LOU SMIT: Have you purchased any cord or
    17 duct tape or anything like that?
    18 JOHN RAMSEY: Absolutely (INAUDIBLE).


    Absolutely...NO? MAYBE? OF COURSE I DID! THE INTRUDER USED IT!

    Remember the Bulk and Army store; it's coming up again.

    Notice in the following, John talks himself into a corner, clearly demonstrating a knowledge of cords, not to mention the cord which killed his daughter...and he suddenly remembers FLEET HAD SOME CORD!

    3 LOU SMIT: We can just go through
    4 the -- John, I would like to show you a couple
    5 of items here. Again, I will show this to the
    6 camera. This is a cord, I would like you to
    7 take a look at that, and --
    8 JOHN RAMSEY: Well yeah, that's
    9 similar to as I recall the cord --
    10 LOU SMIT: On --
    11 JOHN RAMSEY: On JonBenet.
    And
    12 it looks like (INAUDIBLE), but I remember
    13 briefly.
    14 LOU SMIT: Have you ever
    15 seen cord like that before?
    16 JOHN RAMSEY: Uh-uh. Well like
    17 this no, this looks like drawstring cord that
    18 you find in a coat jacket. There was some
    19 laying on a driveway up in Michigan, some
    20 drawstring cord, and it was --
    21 LOU SMIT: Is that like the cord?
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: It's not quite this
    23 fat. It's a little thinner. But it's this
    24 woven.
    25 (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS.)
    0588
    1 LOU SMIT: Have you witnessed what
    2 it says on there, if you would, just a little
    3 bit there?
    4 JOHN RAMSEY: Ten suppose, uses.
    5 LOU SMIT: Would you have
    6 ever used cord like that on your boat or
    7 would anyone else that you know of used
    8 that type of thing?
    9 JOHN RAMSEY: No. I don't think
    10 -- no, this is a little too flat for what you
    11 use on a boat. Of course, most of the lines are
    12 a lot bigger, if they were woven, they were, you
    13 know, 3 inch to a half inch diameter, round. We
    14 did put a, one of the requirements for doing
    15 this long distance race, which you had to fasten
    16 the wooden planks that cover the hatch by a cord
    17 to the boat, so in case you top, you got upset
    18 or whatever it is, you wouldn't lose those hatch
    19 covers, and there was a cord that Fleet put on
    20 the boat for that,
    which -- but it wasn't flat
    21 like that. It might have been a woven cord that
    22 was more round. So you know I --
    23 LOU SMIT: Do you know anyone that
    24 in the camping or tenting or anything that would
    25 have that kind of cord?
    And John sees other victims in the crosswalk and goes straight for that gas pedal!

    0589
    1 Any of your personal friends that
    2 may be into that, anybody at Access Graphics
    3 (INAUDIBLE)?
    4 JOHN RAMSEY: Um, not that really
    5 heavily into it. Well, yeah, the only friends
    6 we had that were really into camping were Bob
    7 and -- his son's name who is a friend of
    8 Burke's, is Woody. They moved to Seattle, they
    9 got divorced. Patsy would remember the name,
    10 but I can't remember the last name. They were
    11 really into camping. A lot. They also he was
    12 also a big sailer.

    13 LOU SMIT: Could you give us
    14 --
    15 (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS.) Are
    16 they still in Boulder?
    17 JOHN RAMSEY: No, they are in
    18 Seattle.
    19 MIKE KANE: In Boulder Christmas of
    20 '96?
    21 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes, they moved to
    22 Seattle, I want to say -- that's a good
    23 question. They moved to Seattle, yeah, it might
    24 have been before then. No, I don't -- I will
    25 find out. Patsy would know exactly.
    0590
    1 LOU SMIT: Could you find
    2 that out?
    3 VOICE: Yes, sir.
    4 JOHN RAMSEY: Woody, Bob and
    5 I forget her name.
    6 VOICE: We can maybe do that
    7 today?
    8 JOHN RAMSEY: Patsy would know.

    9 LOU SMIT: Okay. Anything,
    10 any other ideas on it, did you ever see
    11 anything like that in your house or in
    12 your boat or in your plane or in your
    13 hangars or anything like that?
    14 JOHN RAMSEY: Not that I recall.
    15 No.
    And notice who answers the question about the sample cord being identical to that used in the Ramsey murder case.

    16 MIKE KANE: Is this similar to or
    17 identical to the cord?
    18 LOU SMIT: Yes, it is.
    19 JOHN RAMSEY: Identical.
    20 LOU SMIT: As close as we can
    21 get.
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: Interesting.

    23 LOU SMIT: See, that's
    24 another clue in this case. That's why
    25 it's so important that if you have any
    0591
    1 ideas of someone who could have had
    2 something like that or any indications or
    3 you could have seen?
    4 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
    5 MIKE KANE: Someone was in your
    6 house, someone could have had access to it that
    7 came in and if it's an intruder that would tell
    8 us something about the intruder, they didn't
    9 bring that so --
    And so gingerly asking John questions you'd think they were afraid of him, they finally address the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM...that the Ramseys are the PRIME SUSPECTS...and what does John do?

    Oh yeah, poor Fleet....

    Maybe Fleet has been telling his own stories about the Ramseys.


    10 JOHN RAMSEY: No, no, I don't ever
    11 remember having anything like this. You know,
    12 if I look at friends that -- I mean some people
    13 buy rope and they just buy twine and that's it.
    14 This is more of a -- you know, somebody used
    15 this as more of a -- this is a little more
    16 refined than just buying clothes line rope, for
    17 whatever the uses were.
    18 Um, you know, certainly Fleet White
    19 was knew a lot about lines, mostly associated
    20 with sailboats. He knew a lot about that.
    I
    21 don't know if the Walkers camped or not, Stuart
    22 and Roxie Walker, I don't recall. Probably not.
    23 LOU SMIT: I am sure that
    24 you probably write down and so forth maybe
    25 find some similar, maybe you will be able
    0592
    1 to put more and more together on this,
    2 okay?
    3 JOHN RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
    Smit and Kane finally grow a tiny pair and dance around the big questions with JR: remember the earlier question about the "Bulk and Army" store?

    4 LOU SMIT: But remember any -- the
    5 person left behind something, that's why all
    6 these little things that the killer left behind,
    7 we have to try to explain, we have to try to
    8 find it. We pretty well determined what kind it
    9 was, but we still have to find a person that has
    10 something like this. That's why, John, we have
    11 to look at you, if you ever had anything like
    12 that on your boat or anywhere and that's why --
    13 everybody thinks that you might think they are
    14 getting up on that but they have to find this
    15 out.
    16 For instance, if you said you have
    17 never seen this and somebody said hey, he bought
    18 a whole bunch of this stuff at one time,
    that's
    19 why we have to check into your background and
    20 that's why a lot of this investigation is going
    21 on.
    A lot of times you think well, they are
    22 trying to pin it on me, but really we are trying
    23 to eliminate you too. If we can't find it that
    24 just goes toward seeking the truth also.
    25 MIKE KANE: And you understand
    0593
    1 that you know, I think we all believe in here
    2 that you know the truth will set you free and
    3 the worst thing, if you know let's take the
    4 (inaudible) sitting in the defense room and they
    5 find out that something that just seemed
    6 innocuous to you was not true, that's --
    7 (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS.)
    8 JOHN RAMSEY: Well --
    9 MIKE KANE: To raise that
    10 reasonable doubt.
    And my PERSONAL favorite Ramsey lie mushrooms right out of all that pile of BS being shoveled in that room for all this time:

    11 JOHN RAMSEY: I can absolutely
    12 promise you that we, I am telling nothing but
    13 the truth, to the best of my ability.
    Notice the stall after "we," changing the pronoun to "I" am telling nothing but the truth...then the qualifier "to the best of my ability"...meaning "except when I can't tell the truth."

    Nor will he vouch for Patsy. Good move, John.
    Last edited by koldkase; January 1, 2013, 10:08 am at Tue Jan 1 10:08:31 UTC 2013.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  11. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    It's an interesting idea. I see your point. It's a tough one.

    To cast such a shadow, the object casting the shadow would have to be between the lighting and the blanket, as you know. I don't see any extension of that shadow which would indicate the rectangular object was held up between the light source and the blanket, so I can't get a clear idea of what you're imagining.

    But I did buy some black duct tape at a Wal-Mart or maybe Lowe's, at the time--we're talking maybe 10 years ago? The black duct tape had a grayish/whitish/silverish color, or lack thereof, on the sticky side, with the lines of the weave just as that in the close-up of the actual light side of the tape I included.

    It's a cloth tape, you no doubt know.

    Because of this, once I had similar tape in my hands, I had no problem concluding that tape on the blanket was the actual duct tape from the mouth.

    But of course, I could be wrong.
    I have a roll of black duct tape that I purchased for a cycling related issue and as you say, it is black on one side, and grey/silver on the adhesive side, with a reinforcing cloth weave.



    I completely acknowledge that we may be seeing both sides in the crime scene picture with the blanket, but when I saw that the grey outline matched the black, I began to suspect that it is actually the overexposed shadow that we are seeing, rather than a portion of the tape.
    Have a look at the following and see what you think:

    I noticed that when you enlarge the picture, it appears that what everyone suspects is the grey tape has a “texture.” That texture looks to be the same as the blanket. Obviously that wouldn’t be case if we were comparing tape with the blanket, but would be the case if it was simply a shadow.



    In the next picture I’ve outlined the black side of the tape end in red and the nearby grey side of the tape. Notice how the shapes match. Again, this would be the case it we are dealing with a shadow. (I believe it has the arc shape because it has curled a bit.)



    The last picture shows the other half of the tape and what I believe to also be a long shadow. Although it is not quite as obvious, the red outlines match.



    I could be wrong, as well, but it seems to fit.

  12. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    I have a roll of black duct tape that I purchased for a cycling related issue and as you say, it is black on one side, and grey/silver on the adhesive side, with a reinforcing cloth weave.



    I completely acknowledge that we may be seeing both sides in the crime scene picture with the blanket, but when I saw that the grey outline matched the black, I began to suspect that it is actually the overexposed shadow that we are seeing, rather than a portion of the tape.
    Have a look at the following and see what you think:

    I noticed that when you enlarge the picture, it appears that what everyone suspects is the grey tape has a “texture.” That texture looks to be the same as the blanket. Obviously that wouldn’t be case if we were comparing tape with the blanket, but would be the case if it was simply a shadow.



    In the next picture I’ve outlined the black side of the tape end in red and the nearby grey side of the tape. Notice how the shapes match. Again, this would be the case it we are dealing with a shadow. (I believe it has the arc shape because it has curled a bit.)



    The last picture shows the other half of the tape and what I believe to also be a long shadow. Although it is not quite as obvious, the red outlines match.



    I could be wrong, as well, but it seems to fit.
    Well done. I see what you're seeing.

    I guess my problem is with the length of the area that is either tape or a long, rectangular shadow. I'm having trouble with that shadow. Notice the blanket lumped around the small "black" section you are labeling as the face of the tape--and it could be the face side curling back on the end, with that black edge facing the camera. How can the long, rectangular shape be a shadow from the small, black area we can see, when the blanket around that is not shaped like that?

    I see the weave you're referencing, as well, but I notice when I try to make enlargements from similar photos, which are often screen shots taken from online video or TV programs for the most part, various patterns will actually pick up in other areas. I'm thiinking of the carpet in the basement video Kolar shared: when trying to enlarge the train tracks on the floor, the squiggly pattern of the carpet distorted into the train track, so I couldn't get a sharp enlargement. Does that make sense?

    But that may not be the case here. I see the little "point" at the end of the rectangular shadow that matches the same "point" on the black area you circled as the black face of the tape.

    Also, duct tape doesn't usually lay out that easily, it's so sticky--as the Ramseys BOTH point out, amazingly enough. So it would seem unlikely it would lay out that evenly. It's all stuck together on the ends in the lab photo showing the "stains."

    So you may be right about this. I'll have to ponder the "shadow" angle a bit.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.



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