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  1. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    Doesn't he sound professional.

    I'll help with the slapping.
    Me, too ...with a tire iron!

  2. #134
    RiverRat's Avatar
    RiverRat is offline FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Left is Patsy Ramsey)
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    That Slimebag is not worthy of speaking Steve's name!!! Detective Thomas did the right thing in the middle of a sea of Sins and I hope that he is enjoying the hell out of this confirmation of the cover-ups.
    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."

  3. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    Me, too ...with a tire iron!
    Hear you loud and clear!

  4. #136

    Default Touch DNA

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    Get Charlie Brennan to write an article quoting DNA experts on how the Ramsey's AREN'T cleared by DNA!

    Have Brennan quote Kolar's book about how the "touch DNA" of five men and a woman were found on JonBenet's clothes, and instead of Lacy's lie about it being from one person.

    Have Brennan explain that we all have "touch DNA" donors on our clothing.

    Have Brennan tell the world that (1) Lacy had no right to "exonerate" the Ramseys, and (2) Lacy's "exoneration" was not based on DNA evidence but on Lacy's desperate need to help her beloved Ramseys. If Lacy couldn't manufacture an intruder, ala John Mark Karr, then she could at least use faulty DNA results to "clear" them.

    If Charlie Brennan will write an article on Lacy's fake DNA exoneration, that will help the cause of justice and truth more than anything else we can do, because his article will be picked up by the national press and cannot be ignored.

    Lacy's DNA farce is the last wall of defense for the Ramseys and their apologists. We need it knocked down once and for all!
    Wow! I haven't been here since July 25, 2008 and forgot more details than I remember about this case but one thing that ALWAYS bothered me about Lacy's crazy 'exoneration'.....

    How many people did Jonbenet have contact with that day that were NEVER tested because they were underage or maybe not then considered possible suspects in her brutal murder?

    How can Lacy claim the touch DNA exonerates anyone when she hasn't even tested EVERYONE known to be in contact with the victim?

    I'm not suggesting a young boy was involved BUT it is certainly possible the dna is easily explained. It's possible that she had wholly innocent contact with a young boy before or at the party & transferred that dna herself?

    After all these years, can't these now young men come forward & provide a dna sample so law enforcement can rule out ALL known physical contacts Jonbenet had? They'd be doing a great & noble thing & they could remain anonymous.

  5. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by LI_Mom View Post
    Wow! I haven't been here since July 25, 2008 and forgot more details than I remember about this case but one thing that ALWAYS bothered me about Lacy's crazy 'exoneration'.....

    How many people did Jonbenet have contact with that day that were NEVER tested because they were underage or maybe not then considered possible suspects in her brutal murder?

    How can Lacy claim the touch DNA exonerates anyone when she hasn't even tested EVERYONE known to be in contact with the victim?

    I'm not suggesting a young boy was involved BUT it is certainly possible the dna is easily explained. It's possible that she had wholly innocent contact with a young boy before or at the party & transferred that dna herself?

    After all these years, can't these now young men come forward & provide a dna sample so law enforcement can rule out ALL known physical contacts Jonbenet had? They'd be doing a great & noble thing & they could remain anonymous.
    There were people who had contact with her after she died, too. Morgue workers, the forensics specialists who put her in the body bag, into the ambulance, etc. Somebody had to physically pick her up and put her in a body bag.
    There were MANY males at the White's- some of them children. DNA is not age specific (but some body fluids, like semen, can only come from a male who is old enough to ejaculate). NONE of those (now adult) males can be forced to come forward or submit to DNA testing. And none are that noble.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  6. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    There were people who had contact with her after she died, too. Morgue workers, the forensics specialists who put her in the body bag, into the ambulance, etc. Somebody had to physically pick her up and put her in a body bag.
    There were MANY males at the White's- some of them children. DNA is not age specific (but some body fluids, like semen, can only come from a male who is old enough to ejaculate). NONE of those (now adult) males can be forced to come forward or submit to DNA testing. And none are that noble.
    DeeDee, as far as I remember there was no semen found on her body.

    The only semen I DO remember is what they found on her old blanket which was eventually attributed to her half-brother John & he was definitely cleared of any wrong doing.

    It goes without saying that all the men who came into contact with her AFTER her death should be tested but we never hear any mention of testing the BOYS she was known to have contact with so they can maybe determine whether the dna is even relevant in the case.

    W know she was outside playing with some children the day of the party & we know she was with children at the party. Test them so we know there is a valid reason to leave the dna profile in the system.

    Maybe it's no a question of forcing people but of ASKING them to step forward voluntarily in the name of justice. Most people are decent.

  7. #139

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    Looking through old articles for something and found this, which I want to bump this thread with because it's SO CLEAR in the Team Ramsey spin ABUNDENT in this PROPAGANDA PIECE, starring NONE OTHER THAN DA HUNTER AND HIS SIDE KICK WISE, the DA was NEVER going to try the killers of JonBenet Ramsey--EVER.

    Keep in mind the date for the publication of this article: not even a year after the murder.

    Keep in mind that Micheal Kane, a grand jury specialist brought in after the governor threatened to take the investigation away from Hunter once Thomas' resignation letter became public, said the grand jury should have been convened in this case much earlier. We now know that the Ramsey's lawyers WERE LYING in just about everything they said in this article.

    Ha. Some innocent parents these people were: clearly the Ramsey DISINFORMATION MACHINE, complete with the DA's Office on board, was in fifth gear here.

    Bastids, all of them.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ram...7/12/07-2.html


    Quote:
    The BoulderNews Ramsey Archive
    Articles from the Daily Camera


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Grand jury strategy
    Experts question value of powerful legal tool in Ramsey case
    By CLAY EVANS
    Camera Staff Writer
    Sunday, December 7, 1997

    Grand juries are valued in certain cases, such as government malfeasance, investigation of powerful public officials and prosecuting big-time drug dealers and organized crime rings. Nevertheless, the modern-day grand jury has been criticized by many as a bludgeon for prosecutors. Some critics even say its original purpose - to protect the average citizen - has been turned on its head; that it often is used to harass citizens or provide political cover for police and prosecutors in weak casesn.

    "I don't think the grand jury is nearly the screening device it was designed to be," said Forrest Lewis of Denver, president of the Colorado Criminal Defense Bar Association. "It's stacked very much against suspects, and very much in favor of charging people. It's not a process you would choose if you are a defense attorney."

    Even the Colorado Revised Statutes make clear that a grand jury is tilted toward the government: "The court must draw all inferences in favor of the prosecution."

    But as the investigation into the murder of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey approaches its first anniversary, both police investigators and the Boulder County District Attorney's Office are raising the possibility the complex case may eventually go to a grand jury.

    Police Cmdr. Mark Beckner, who replaced Cmdr. John Eller as the lead investigator about nine weeks ago, said in a Friday news conference a grand jury request remains a possibility. Meanwhile, District Attorney Alex Hunters office, which does not often make use of grand juries, is consulting experts in their use.

    "We are looking harder at a grand jury," said First Assistant District Attorney Bill Wise.

    Wise emphasized, however, that no decision on the issue would be made until after prosecutors have received a case file from investigators. Beckner on Friday dispelled persistent rumors that police have a case prepared and have written out arrest affidavits, saying neither assertion is true.

    Attorneys for John and Patsy Ramsey, whose daughter was found strangled and bludgeoned in the familys basement Dec. 26 after her mother discovered a ransom note alleging her kidnapping, have been open in their wish that the case not be referred to a grand jury. Beckner said the couple remain under the "umbrella" of suspicion with other, undisclosed individuals, but have not been named as formal suspects. Given the immense amount of media coverage of the case, Ramsey attorneys argue their clients could be unfairly indicted if the case ever goes before a grand jury.

    Not necessary?

    Although police investigators and prosecutors are mum on potential justifications for a grand jury in the Ramsey case, Ramsey family lawyers and criminal defense expert Lewis argue there are no obvious reasons to send the case that way.

    "It wouldnt seem to be necessary," Lewis said. "Gosh, (investigators) have talked to everybody, including the Ramseys. Its not like they need the investigative arm of the grand jury process, theyve done all that. Im not sure what they can get out of it."

    Beckner said Friday police would like to do additional testing on some physical evidence, reinterview witnesses, including John and Patsy Ramsey and their son, Burke, and neighbors. He said police recently requested further interviews with all three Ramseys, but had not yet received a response from the Ramsey camp. He also said the Ramseys have been cooperative with police, but did not elaborate.

    Bryan Morgan, the Boulder attorney who has served as John Ramseys primary counsel from early in the investigation, last week said he believed investigators cannot argue that major witnesses in the case have refused to talk to police. In particular, he addressed persistent rumors that 10-year-old Burke Ramsey has not been extensively interviewed by police.

    According to partial police reports obtained by Ramsey attorneys, Burke Ramsey was interviewed alone by police at least once Dec. 26, the day his sisters body was discovered. Later, after negotiating with police, the Ramseys agreed to make the boy available for an interview at a Boulder County Social Services site in Niwot on Jan. 8, Morgan said.

    Police chose a mental health professional to conduct the two-hour interview, prepared questions in advance and watched through a one-way window while the boy was questioned, Morgan said. They were given an opportunity to talk to the interviewer during an intermission and the session was videotaped. No attorneys or family members were present, and the Ramsey team did not seek to censor questions, he said.

    "We did that voluntarily," Morgan said. "They would really have had trouble getting a court order" to interview the boy.

    Morgan also said Ramsey attorneys have supplied all documents requested by police, including medical records for both JonBenet and Burke from Colorado, Michigan and Georgia, school records and phone logs from the Ramsey home. He said John Ramsey provided two handwriting samples, blood, hair - including pubic hair - and fingerprints.

    Patsy Ramsey has provided five handwriting samples and all the same physical samples. She also agreed to identify her own handwriting among samples taken from the familys home in Charlevoix, Mich., Morgan said.

    "Patsy did it for them. She didnt have to identify anything," he said.

    He also said Ramsey lawyers persuaded other family members and friends to provide samples to police.

    "These were people who in our mind were very hesitant to do so," Morgan said.

    Ramsey attorneys clearly have motivation to avoid a grand jury proceeding focused on their clients. But other experts agree the mere process of going through a preliminary hearing or grand jury can be damaging to potential suspects, even if no indictment or charges are ever handed down.

    "Its true that all the damage is done," Wise said. "But you really run that danger any time you file any criminal case. For example, the mere filing of a case against a teacher who is accused of molesting a kid. Filing does tremendous damage to the person you file against.

    "Thats theoretically why you have strong prosecutorial ethics. If probable cause is 50 percent, and beyond reasonable doubt is 75 or 80 percent, then to file a case that is a 51, where you dont believe you can get (a conviction), is in my opinion unprofessional," he said.

    Lewis said public frustration over lack of an arrest or conviction may pressure prosecutors to go to a grand jury, but should never be the reason to pursue any legal action.

    "I think its just human nature when you see a crime like (JonBenets murder), to be frustrated. You want whoever committed this to be brought to justice," he said. "But we cant let that frustration sanction some sort of process that 'someone has to be charged."

    Dissolving in May

    Although Boulder County has a permanent grand jury, its not likely the jurors will ever hear testimony regarding the Ramsey case. Seated in November 1996, the jury must by law be dissolved in May.

    Even if police were to present a case to the prosecutor as early as January - Beckner hinted Friday the case is still far from complete - and Hunter decided to take it to the grand jury, the panel might not have time to examine the overwhelming amount of evidence in time to make a decision. Hunter also acknowledged last week the immense amount of publicity in the case may have prejudiced current grand jury members and would make it difficult to seat a new panel that would be fair and impartial.

    Any decision regarding a grand jury will not be made lightly, Wise said.

    "Im not going to be disingenuous here," he said. "Theres more talk now about a grand jury than there was in March or April, but a case must be presented to us before we can make a decision on a grand jury."

    Timing aside, Hunters office seems unenthusiastic about going the grand jury route.

    "A grand jury should not be used as a fishing expedition to stir up the waters a little bit," Wise said. "You get an aggressive, skilled person in front of a grand jury and you certainly can load it up and indict a ham sandwich.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
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    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  8. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Looking through old articles for something and found this, which I want to bump this thread with because it's SO CLEAR in the Team Ramsey spin ABUNDENT in this PROPAGANDA PIECE, starring NONE OTHER THAN DA HUNTER AND HIS SIDE KICK WISE, the DA was NEVER going to try the killers of JonBenet Ramsey--EVER.

    Keep in mind the date for the publication of this article: not even a year after the murder.

    Keep in mind that Micheal Kane, a grand jury specialist brought in after the governor threatened to take the investigation away from Hunter once Thomas' resignation letter became public, said the grand jury should have been convened in this case much earlier. We now know that the Ramsey's lawyers WERE LYING in just about everything they said in this article.

    Ha. Some innocent parents these people were: clearly the Ramsey DISINFORMATION MACHINE, complete with the DA's Office on board, was in fifth gear here.

    Bastids, all of them.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    [SNIP from quoted article]
    "That's theoretically why you have strong prosecutorial ethics..."
    Last edited by cynic; August 5, 2013, 7:43 pm at Mon Aug 5 19:43:46 UTC 2013.

  9. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by LI_Mom View Post
    DeeDee, as far as I remember there was no semen found on her body.

    The only semen I DO remember is what they found on her old blanket which was eventually attributed to her half-brother John & he was definitely cleared of any wrong doing.

    It goes without saying that all the men who came into contact with her AFTER her death should be tested but we never hear any mention of testing the BOYS she was known to have contact with so they can maybe determine whether the dna is even relevant in the case.

    W know she was outside playing with some children the day of the party & we know she was with children at the party. Test them so we know there is a valid reason to leave the dna profile in the system.

    Maybe it's no a question of forcing people but of ASKING them to step forward voluntarily in the name of justice. Most people are decent.
    I know there was no semen found on her body. I only mentioned semen as an example of how that particular body fluid can indicate that the donor has at least reached puberty. Most DNA cannot disclose the age of the donor.
    None of the males at the party, regardless of age, can be required to provide DNA samples or even talk to police. They can be ASKED, but they do not have to respond. People cannot be forced to provide DNA. Even if they are arrested- and even then, it requires a warrant to invade their privacy to that extent. No one can or will ever, force or require any party guest, or any other male who may have had contact with JB that day, to provide DNA samples.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  10. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    [SNIP from quoted article]
    "That's theoretically why you have strong prosecutorial ethics..."
    If there were ever a more culpable group of UNETHICAL, debauched LE, I hope I never have to know about them.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
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    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
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  11. #143
    RiverRat's Avatar
    RiverRat is offline FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Left is Patsy Ramsey)
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    Cool

    Just a friendly bump of this magnificent thread for any new readers ~ Forums For Justice has been reporting these facts for decades so please enjoy the fruits of our labor!
    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."

  12. #144

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    http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2...nts/?hpt=hp_t1

    Quote from Count VII:
    "knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime Of Murder in the First Degree and Child abuse resulting in Death"
    Does this mean the GJ believed that nine year-old BR committed a First Degree Murder? That what happened was even more than a fierce sibling fight that escalated to the point where BR might have struck JB's head in a rage with an object?

    Also, the term child abuse makes me think more of a parent's actions than those of a sibling. (?)



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