Peter Boyles talks about the recent Grand Jury revelation (Jan. 28 & 29, 2013)

[heymom]

Boy am I glad I mentioned it! Thanks!

I can see a boy doing that as retribution to his kid sister. Or he could have just tossed the soiled clothing onto the candy and made a remark. There are several "innocent" scenes that could possibly explain the poop-smeared candy although had I pulled that stunt as a kid I'd still be standing up!!!!

I don't know...I think using poop as a weapon at the age of 9 is not normal. It shows at the very least, an immaturity - only very young children play with and handle their own excrement. But using poop as some kind of retribution for a wrong? That's pretty dysfunctional. Not normal for a 9 year old boy. But we all know that Burke had his own challenges.

But then again, for a 6 year old girl to have toileting accidents isn't normal either. I still suspect that JonBenet's toileting problems were related to her vaginal abuse. And perhaps the abuser got angry because she effectively dirtied herself?

[BobC]

Smearing feces on walls and such is a huge red flag that often points to severe emotional disturbance. I worked with E.D. kids (emotionally disturbed) back in the early 90's, and the smearing of feces was considered a warning sign that that a kid had deeper problems than relatively "normal" behavioral issues ( along with self mutilation, "rituals" like pulling out your own hair, setting fires, etc.). When I read in Kolar's book that Burke was doing this, I was stunned. It was shocking to me because, in my mind, it was an extremely important behavioral clue.

I work in downtown Austin and my building is just two blocks away from the homeless shelter, and we have had several incidents with disturbed homeless people sneaking into the building to use the restroom, and smearing feces all over the walls. Back when I worked near campus in the 90's, I allowed a homeless guy to use our bathroom. He smeared feces all over the walls despite the fact that I had really done him a favor--so there was no motive there, he was just unbalanced, obviously.

I now believe Burke's medical records are the key to solving this case. If his records contain just some bouts of the flu and things like that then why be so protective about them? If anything, normal illnesses and nothing more would put Burke in a favorable light.

[wombat]

I now believe Burke's medical records are the key to solving this case. If his records contain just some bouts of the flu and things like that then why be so protective about them? If anything, normal illnesses and nothing more would put Burke in a favorable light.

I totally agree with this. He had a psychiatrist, not a social worker or a therapist, but a medical doctor, which indicates to me they knew they had to deal with deep problems in the child.

Burke is living life right now, absolutely silent and under the radar. He is an adult citizen, and like Tricia said (well, shouted) on her radio show, he needs to MAN UP. If we are right and the grand jury evidence will be released, he may as well. There's going to be paparazzi at his front door.

[BOESP]

I by no means believe handling poop is normal behavior by a six- or nine-year-old. But I can see a young boy tossing fecal-stained clothing on their sisters candy stash while having an immature tantrum.

I don't know how much fecal material was found and the exact details. It sounds gross when you first read what Kolar wrote but if Burke tossed a pair of poopy pajama bottoms on top of the candy then JonBenet grabbed them up, smearing the candy in the process, it isn't quite as sinister as it seems--immature and bratty or sinister????? I'm just saying there are several possibilities concerning that candy.

Regardless of what happened, had I been involved, my parents would have spanked my hind-end. Maybe that is how JonBenet's injuries started. I just don't have enough information to come to a conclusion based on a sensational statement I read in a book.

[BobC]

Burke won't "man up." He has nothing to gain from it and plenty to lose in terms of inheritance. Coming forward would be stupid on his part--It might be the right thing to do, but this is real life. He'd be cutting his own throat.

Now, if he talks to a friend...

[BOESP]

Smearing feces on walls and such is a huge red flag that often points to severe emotional disturbance. I worked with E.D. kids (emotionally disturbed) back in the early 90's, and the smearing of feces was considered a warning sign that that a kid had deeper problems than relatively "normal" behavioral issues ( along with self mutilation, "rituals" like pulling out your own hair, setting fires, etc.). When I read in Kolar's book that Burke was doing this, I was stunned. It was shocking to me because, in my mind, it was an extremely important behavioral clue.

I work in downtown Austin and my building is just two blocks away from the homeless shelter, and we have had several incidents with disturbed homeless people sneaking into the building to use the restroom, and smearing feces all over the walls. Back when I worked near campus in the 90's, I allowed a homeless guy to use our bathroom. He smeared feces all over the walls despite the fact that I had really done him a favor--so there was no motive there, he was just unbalanced, obviously.

I now believe Burke's medical records are the key to solving this case. If his records contain just some bouts of the flu and things like that then why be so protective about them? If anything, normal illnesses and nothing more would put Burke in a favorable light.

Yes, I understand about the fecal-smearing and agree with you. I also believe his medical records, as well as JonBenet's, might give better insight to the family dynamics. But I don't have enough information to conclude that Burke killed JonBenet because he was emotionally disturbed. I can think of several reasons why his medical records should be kept private, including some type physical abnormality, or a possible deviant act he endured that has nothing to do with JonBenet, or emotional issues unrelated to JonBenet, or a few other potentially embarrassing issues or ailments.

In a nutshell, I need more information.

[Elle_1]

Smearing feces on walls and such is a huge red flag that often points to severe emotional disturbance. I worked with E.D. kids (emotionally disturbed) back in the early 90's, and the smearing of feces was considered a warning sign that that a kid had deeper problems than relatively "normal" behavioral issues ( along with self mutilation, "rituals" like pulling out your own hair, setting fires, etc.). When I read in Kolar's book that Burke was doing this, I was stunned. It was shocking to me because, in my mind, it was an extremely important behavioral clue.

I work in downtown Austin and my building is just two blocks away from the homeless shelter, and we have had several incidents with disturbed homeless people sneaking into the building to use the restroom, and smearing feces all over the walls. Back when I worked near campus in the 90's, I allowed a homeless guy to use our bathroom. He smeared feces all over the walls despite the fact that I had really done him a favor--so there was no motive there, he was just unbalanced, obviously.

I now believe Burke's medical records are the key to solving this case. If his records contain just some bouts of the flu and things like that then why be so protective about them? If anything, normal illnesses and nothing more would put Burke in a favorable light.

You must be one very special person, Bob. Not everyone can handle this type of work. We should all be better educated about situations like the
ones you were confronted with.

What troubles me about the situation with the feces being smeared in JonBenét's bedroom. Patsy or John never cleaned it up before the police came (?). I'm truly puzzled by this! (?).

Linda Hoffman wasn't working that morning, and in her statement she stated when she arrived for work most mornings, Patsy had JonBenét's sheets in the dryer - I'm wondering if this cleaning up feces was a regular deal? Maybe Linda can now publish her book. What do you think, Bob?

I would also like to add I have always felt Burke Ramsey was sadly neglected in this family. Attention was always on JonBenét and the dresses she would be wearing. I think he was tired of this whole scene and the smearing of the feces was rebellion.

[BobC]

Boe--I am not suggesting that one incident proves anything. I am looking at the big picture. Just being 9 yo and seeing a psychiatrist is unusual as is wetting the bed and defecating in the bed. Jonbenet having the same issues is another clue. The fact that she was asking adults to "wipe wipe" for her at age 6 is strange. Then we have the evidence of chronic vaginal trauma. We also know that Burke had struck JBR before, which Patsy said was an accident. We also know that Burke was quiet and introverted but had an explosive temper, both before and after the murder.

If it were any one or two of these things, I wouldn't be suspicious--but all of them put with the murder itself? Something was very wrong in that home IMO.

Remember, one of the first things Ramsey said publicly was that his was a "normal family." That always stuck out to me, since no one had suggested they weren't.

"Forgiveness..."

[BobC]

Hi Elle. I loved that job but the pay was not even what a person could survive on. The things that happen in real life to kids are so much worse than what you ever see on TV. I didn't let those things get to me because I knew that the kids were in a better place now and were being protected.

Re: Not cleaning up the feces. Patsy may not have even known it happened. The bedroom was cleaned up but she might have missed this in her panic. Patsy would clean up JBR's bedding every morning before the housekeeper came on, which tells me that Patsy found it embarrassing.

[heymom]

Burke won't "man up." He has nothing to gain from it and plenty to lose in terms of inheritance. Coming forward would be stupid on his part--It might be the right thing to do, but this is real life. He'd be cutting his own throat.

Now, if he talks to a friend...

Not only that, but if the elaborate staging that John and Patsy carried out on JonBenet was done in order to convince Burke that HE wasn't at fault for JonBenet's death, then in his mind, he has nothing to confess. I would think that after 16 years, and all the brainwashing he could have been exposed to all this time, he would think that he has nothing to do with her death at all.

Yes, John Andrew's insistence that JonBenet's killer needed "forgiveness" was pretty darn telling, wasn't it???

[heymom]

Hi Elle. I loved that job but the pay was not even what a person could survive on. The things that happen in real life to kids are so much worse than what you ever see on TV. I didn't let those things get to me because I knew that the kids were in a better place now and were being protected.

Re: Not cleaning up the feces. Patsy may not have even known it happened. The bedroom was cleaned up but she might have missed this in her panic. Patsy would clean up JBR's bedding every morning before the housekeeper came on, which tells me that Patsy found it embarrassing.

When I worked on the far end of that spectrum, in the group home for children who'd been abused and were multiply-handicapped, or were handicapped from birth, I was single and with minimal needs. The pay just paid my bills and allowed me to eat, not much else. I didn't have a car at the time and took the bus to work. And the emotional toll it took was cumulative and after a year, I just couldn't take it any more. The kids were great - they had been innocent and they gave unconditional love. I wasn't in any physical danger as you may have been. I know I couldn't have done the work you did.

[Elle_1]

Hi Elle. I loved that job but the pay was not even what a person could survive on. The things that happen in real life to kids are so much worse than what you ever see on TV. I didn't let those things get to me because I knew that the kids were in a better place now and were being protected.

Re: Not cleaning up the feces. Patsy may not have even known it happened. The bedroom was cleaned up but she might have missed this in her panic. Patsy would clean up JBR's bedding every morning before the housekeeper came on, which tells me that Patsy found it embarrassing.

If she was embarrassed, Bob, why didn't she clean up the feces in JB's room before the police came that fatal morning? Was she hoping the cops would think it was the killer having fun?

It was good you could handle those gross situations with the children you worked with.