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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobC View Post
    Boe--I am not suggesting that one incident proves anything. I am looking at the big picture. Just being 9 yo and seeing a psychiatrist is unusual as is wetting the bed and defecating in the bed. Jonbenet having the same issues is another clue. The fact that she was asking adults to "wipe wipe" for her at age 6 is strange. Then we have the evidence of chronic vaginal trauma. We also know that Burke had struck JBR before, which Patsy said was an accident. We also know that Burke was quiet and introverted but had an explosive temper, both before and after the murder.

    If it were any one or two of these things, I wouldn't be suspicious--but all of them put with the murder itself? Something was very wrong in that home IMO.

    Remember, one of the first things Ramsey said publicly was that his was a "normal family." That always stuck out to me, since no one had suggested they weren't.

    "Forgiveness..."
    BBM.

    I totally agree. That entire family was strange. John said JonBenet was a spark plug so that makes me wonder how much self control she had and what John meant by that comment.

    Another thing I thought strange was a parent(s) allowing their son to whittle and leave his mess for the housekeeper to clean up. I see that as "Arrogance Training in Action."

    In some ways, I feel sorry for Patsy. I feel positively sure it is unlikely she felt the very best and she may have suffered from what some cancer patients call "chemo brain." I still sit on the fence as to who did what but, ultimately, I think that indictment is perfectly worded.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    I by no means believe handling poop is normal behavior by a six- or nine-year-old. But I can see a young boy tossing fecal-stained clothing on their sisters candy stash while having an immature tantrum.

    I don't know how much fecal material was found and the exact details. It sounds gross when you first read what Kolar wrote but if Burke tossed a pair of poopy pajama bottoms on top of the candy then JonBenet grabbed them up, smearing the candy in the process, it isn't quite as sinister as it seems--immature and bratty or sinister????? I'm just saying there are several possibilities concerning that candy.

    Regardless of what happened, had I been involved, my parents would have spanked my hind-end. Maybe that is how JonBenet's injuries started. I just don't have enough information to come to a conclusion based on a sensational statement I read in a book.
    BOESP,

    I think Burke Ramsey as I stated before was not given enough attention in this family where the spotlight was on JonBenét. I think he had to put up with a lot and this is why he was withdrawn and playing with his gameboy or whatever (?). I think this young boy was pushed to the edge and
    couldn't take it any more, and he retaliated.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    You must be one very special person, Bob. Not everyone can handle this type of work. We should all be better educated about situations like the
    ones you were confronted with.

    What troubles me about the situation with the feces being smeared in JonBenét's bedroom. Patsy or John never cleaned it up before the police came (?). I'm truly puzzled by this! (?).

    Linda Hoffman wasn't working that morning, and in her statement she stated when she arrived for work most mornings, Patsy had JonBenét's sheets in the dryer - I'm wondering if this cleaning up feces was a regular deal? Maybe Linda can now publish her book. What do you think, Bob?

    I would also like to add I have always felt Burke Ramsey was sadly neglected in this family. Attention was always on JonBenét and the dresses she would be wearing. I think he was tired of this whole scene and the smearing of the feces was rebellion.
    I would loveeeeee to read her book when and if it ever comes out. She strikes me as a straight-forward, honest, hard-working person who calls white, white and black, black.

    I too see Burke's actions as rebellion or as attention seeking. Regardless, he seems to have been odd-man-out.

    Edited to add: Elle, we were posting at the same time. I also agree with your statement as being a good possibility, "I think this young boy was pushed to the edge and couldn't take it any more, and he retaliated." The way the indictment is worded (if what we are told via the news is the correct version) would also cover this scenario too.

    I always go back to Linda Arndt saying Patsy was imprisoned by secrets. But then Patsy was a good actress (based on her winning the talent event in the Miss America pageant via her dramatic monologue) so was she smoozing Arndt or being totally truthful with whatever she said?????

  4. #64
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    The bedroom was cleaned up, Elle. I am trying to remember but I think the cops found "wet" bedsheets in the washer but they weren't soiled. Remember the degree of obvious panic was extreme and mistakes were made.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    I would loveeeeee to read her book when and if it ever comes out. She strikes me as a straight-forward, honest, hard-working person who calls white, white and black, black.

    I too see Burke's actions as rebellion or as attention seeking. Regardless, he seems to have been odd-man-out.
    I'm way behind in my reading, but this one I think I will read in a flash! I think we would hear the truth from Linda.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobC View Post
    The bedroom was cleaned up, Elle. I am trying to remember but I think the cops found "wet" bedsheets in the washer but they weren't soiled. Remember the degree of obvious panic was extreme and mistakes were made.
    Oh! (?). I thought it was like this when the cops arrived. I'll need to check back, Bob! Sorry about that!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    I would loveeeeee to read her book when and if it ever comes out. She strikes me as a straight-forward, honest, hard-working person who calls white, white and black, black.

    I too see Burke's actions as rebellion or as attention seeking. Regardless, he seems to have been odd-man-out.

    Edited to add: Elle, we were posting at the same time. I also agree with your statement as being a good possibility, "I think this young boy was pushed to the edge and couldn't take it any more, and he retaliated." The way the indictment is worded (if what we are told via the news is the correct version) would also cover this scenario too.

    I always go back to Linda Arndt saying Patsy was imprisoned by secrets. But then Patsy was a good actress (based on her winning the talent event in the Miss America pageant via her dramatic monologue) so was she smoozing Arndt or being totally truthful with whatever she said?????

    Linda Arndt did end up being very close to Patsy Ramsey. Even receiving flowers etc. I also think Arndt got a raw deal from the cops. Being the only one left at the Ramsey home for quite a spell if my memory serves me right!(?)

    You're right about Patsy being a drama queen The last video I watched of Patsy Ramsey was an interview with one of the detectives, and she slaps her thigh in anger with almost every word. She probably won Linda Arndt over.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  8. #68
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    Patsy won almost everybody over. She was charismatic. LA, I believe, felt John Ramsey did the murder and Patsy got caught up in the staging. So, in LA's eyes Patsy was sort of a victim in the whole thing if I am reading her right.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobC View Post
    Patsy won almost everybody over. She was charismatic. LA, I believe, felt John Ramsey did the murder and Patsy got caught up in the staging. So, in LA's eyes Patsy was sort of a victim in the whole thing if I am reading her right.
    yes, LA did believe John to have been the perpetrator, she describes knowing that he was dangerous as she faced him over JonBenet's cold and stiff corpse in the living room. She has her own biases and I would still have to take the entire case file into account, along with the childrens' medical records and the PHONE RECORDS from that night (for KK)!
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  10. #70
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    I'm with you, Momsy. I lost some respect for Arndt when she said she "knew" who killed JBR after looking into Ramsey's beady eyes, and "never wavered." That interview is on Youtube if anyone wants to revisit it.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    BOESP,

    I think Burke Ramsey as I stated before was not given enough attention in this family where the spotlight was on JonBenét. I think he had to put up with a lot and this is why he was withdrawn and playing with his gameboy or whatever (?). I think this young boy was pushed to the edge and
    couldn't take it any more, and he retaliated.
    Elle, agree with you completely. Children are children. They all need love and attention. Patsy was busy with JB and herself, JR was busy CEO, traveling...I'm not saying that in every busy family you'll find the dead child in the closet. But I'm sure every 'busy to attend children' family has ugly closets!

    jmo

  12. #72

    Default Please! don't be angry at me for this post!!!

    While conversation is going on right now about Ramseys children's behaviour (probably we're using the wrong thread), I need to admit that since BobC thread 'Child's RAGE' way back, I couldn't stop thinking what if?.....

    Remember, BobC asked us: 'what did you see?'. I was affraid to say that I saw JB. I'm not saying that we have evidences of JB's rage or so called 'bad seed' attitude. From what we read/heard (Ramsey's friends, her school friends/teachers, gardener, housekeeper), JB was spoled but loving intellegent girl.

    But what if SOME of the 'torture toward Burke' elements were there? What IF JB was the one who wouldn't leave Burke alone and provoking his attention with the wrong action? Reportedly, JB was the one who comes to Burke's bed (to sleep or to play) all the time! It wasn't Burke who's coming to JB's bedroom to sleep in her bed. JB was the one who's admittedly tried to destroy Burke's toys on more than one occasions. JB was the one who could trow the tantrum fist for no particular reasons (including her 'I want to walk on the star!') scream/cry demand. JB was the one who by her father's remark would be grown to be 'handfull'.

    Again, please, don't be angry at me for the above. What I'm trying to say that both children COULD have problem. And it was PARENTS responsibility to control, balance and protect each of them from the potential harm and danger.

    sorry....jmo



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