Page 1 of 14 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 12 of 166
  1. #1

    Exclamation The Grand Jury indictment of John and Patsy Ramsey

    http://www.courts.state.co.us/Media/Opinions.cfm









    http://www.courts.state.co.us/Media/...and%20Jury.pdf

    http://www.courts.state.co.us/Media/...and%20Jury.pdf

    An unprosecuted 1999 grand jury indictment released today revealed the grand jury prepared charges of child abuse resulting in death and accessory to a crime for both John and Patsy Ramsey in the death of their 6-year-old daughter JonBenet Ramsey.
    The four pages released this morning indicated the jury felt that both the Ramseys permitted a child to be "unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey" and rendered assistance to a person "knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death."
    Alex Hunter, the Boulder district attorney at the time, never signed the true bill, apparently believing he could not successfully prosecute due to a lack of evidence.
    The criteria for a grand jury indictment is probable cause and does not have to be unanimous among the grand jurors. Hunter would have had to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt to win at trial.
    Both of the charges in the indictment carry a statute of limitation of three years.
    The documents -- which had been sealed since the jury concluded its work in late 1999 -- were released by retired Weld County Judge Robert Lowenbach in response to a lawsuit brought by Daily Camera reporter Charlie Brennan and the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press seeking the release of the unprosecuted indictment of the Ramseys.
    After Lowenbach ruled earlier this month that the release of the documents would not violate grand jury secrecy rules, Boulder County District Attorney Stan Garnett turned over the documents for Lowenbach to review.
    On Wednesday, Lowenbach ruled that the indictment would be released.
    According to the court order, the documents submitted to the court by Garnett consisted of 18 pages, nine relating to each of JonBenet's parents. Lowenbach ruled that only pages signed by the foreman of the grand jury would be considered "official actions" of the grand jury and would thus be releasable. In the end, a total of four pages -- two pages for each parent -- were released.
    http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_24381455
    Last edited by cynic; October 25, 2013, 9:11 pm at Fri Oct 25 21:11:18 UTC 2013.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    3,481

    Default That's IT???

    2 pages each???

    Oh dear....



    Well, so much for that...

    ;'(
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    3,481

    Default

    But wait....Those indictments state that BOTH Patsy and John helped cover up MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE!!! And CHILD ABUSE RESULTING IN DEATH!!

    So if they both helped cover it up....Who else was present on Christmas Eve???

    Wow. Just...wow.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  4. #4

    Default

    I’m going to look at the bright side.
    At least SEVEN charges were considered against both John and Patsy.
    They were indicted with respect to TWO of those charges.
    Accessory to the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death
    And
    Child Abuse Resulting in Death

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    But wait....Those indictments state that BOTH Patsy and John helped cover up MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE!!! And CHILD ABUSE RESULTING IN DEATH!!

    So if they both helped cover it up....Who else was present on Christmas Eve???

    Wow. Just...wow.
    it sounded like BDI to me at first too but then I remembered what the juror told Charlie Brennan,they didn't know who did what and thats why this vote?
    M. Lacy: "You know, no-one is really cleared of a homicide until there’s a conviction, in court beyond a reasonable doubt. And I don’t think you will get any prosecutor… unless they were present with the person at the time of the crime… to clear someone."

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    But wait....Those indictments state that BOTH Patsy and John helped cover up MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE!!! And CHILD ABUSE RESULTING IN DEATH!!

    So if they both helped cover it up....Who else was present on Christmas Eve???

    Wow. Just...wow.
    The question is, did they suspect Burke?

    ETA - Sorry Madeleine - posting at the same time.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    3,481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    I’m going to look at the bright side.
    At least SEVEN charges were considered against both John and Patsy.
    They were indicted with respect to TWO of those charges.
    Accessory to the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death
    And
    Child Abuse Resulting in Death
    I don't think they were indicted of Child Abuse resulting in death, cynic. But of allowing or not preventing child abuse resulting in death. So, accessory to both child abuse AND 1st degree murder and child abuse. Very much like Molly Midyette was charged with the same thing, while Alex was convicted of the actual abuse.

    Someone please correct me if I am wrong, I'm no lawyer. I just don't see them being charged with direct child abuse.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    But wait....Those indictments state that BOTH Patsy and John helped cover up MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE!!! And CHILD ABUSE RESULTING IN DEATH!!

    So if they both helped cover it up....Who else was present on Christmas Eve???

    Wow. Just...wow.
    I agree with you, heymom. Wow.

    Did the grand jury believe that Burke killed his sister?

  9. #9

    Default

    http://www.dailycamera.com/news/ci_2...arges-da-could

    "We didn't know who did what," one juror told the Camera, "but we felt the adults in the house may have done something that they certainly could have prevented, or they could have helped her, but they didn't."
    M. Lacy: "You know, no-one is really cleared of a homicide until there’s a conviction, in court beyond a reasonable doubt. And I don’t think you will get any prosecutor… unless they were present with the person at the time of the crime… to clear someone."

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    3,481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    I agree with you, heymom. Wow.

    Did the grand jury believe that Burke killed his sister?
    The way the charges were filed, I can't help but think that they did, since neither parent was charged with direct abuse or anything other than accessory.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    3,481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine_ws View Post
    http://www.dailycamera.com/news/ci_2...arges-da-could

    "We didn't know who did what," one juror told the Camera, "but we felt the adults in the house may have done something that they certainly could have prevented, or they could have helped her, but they didn't."
    That is a very hedged response, don't you think? The adults in the house may have done something, that THEY certainly could have prevented...Interesting way to put it. If they did it, why would they then be responsible to prevent it?

    But if someone ELSE did it, then yes, the adults could have prevented it.

    More and more, I think the big red arrow here is pointing straight to Burke.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    I don't think they were indicted of Child Abuse resulting in death, cynic. But of allowing or not preventing child abuse resulting in death. So, accessory to both child abuse AND 1st degree murder and child abuse. Very much like Molly Midyette was charged with the same thing, while Alex was convicted of the actual abuse.

    Someone please correct me if I am wrong, I'm no lawyer. I just don't see them being charged with direct child abuse.
    There is no doubt; count four says that it is a true bill with respect to child abuse resulting in death.



Similar Threads

  1. Ramsey grand jury voted to indict parents in 1999, DA refused to prosecute!
    By BobC in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 146
    Last Post: November 7, 2016, 6:48 pm, Mon Nov 7 18:48:57 UTC 2016
  2. Judge has ruled Ramsey Grand Jury indictment must be released
    By wombat in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 192
    Last Post: August 21, 2016, 5:17 am, Sun Aug 21 5:17:22 UTC 2016
  3. Judge Who Dismissed JonBenet Ramsey Grand Jury To Retire
    By Little in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: August 7, 2009, 2:49 pm, Fri Aug 7 14:49:57 UTC 2009
  4. Grand Jury is NOT looking into anything Ramsey
    By Tricia in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: June 4, 2004, 9:33 pm, Fri Jun 4 21:33:19 UTC 2004

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •