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  1. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    Patsy Ramsey
    So you think John would protect Patsy if he found out that she had been abusing JonBenet? I think that's ridiculous. Even if the didn't know before, he would have found out once the autopsy report showed abuse and the police questioned Patsy and him about it, and I can tell you for 100% certain, any parent who suspected the other one of sexual abuse would have hit the roof and gone after the predator full-force.

    However, both of them would protect Burke. And Burke would have had plenty of access to JonBenet.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  2. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Thank you, cynic! I hoped you'd post on this. Whew! We're working like mules plowing through a field of Team Ramsey manure today, aren't we?
    A pleasure, as always but it shouldn’t be this way. The talking heads out there should maybe think about earning some of the $$$$$$ that they make and actually investigate the facts of the case. Perhaps they should study Charlie Brennan.

    Things like this make my head hurt. (From Nancy DisGrace’s FB page.)
    6-yr-old beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey is found murdered in the basement of her home - no one has ever been held responsible for her death! Court documents just released reveal a secret grand jury wanted to indict the Ramsey's! Grand jury believed JonBenet's parents even knew their daughter's killer, even acting to help cover up the crime! However, the district attorney decided not to file charges at the time because of insufficient evidence, and in 2008, he then said DNA completely cleared JonBenet’s parents. What evidence led the jury to make this claim? #JonBenet www.HLNtv.com/Nancy
    https://www.facebook.com/NancyGraceH...type=1&theater

  3. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    So you think John would protect Patsy if he found out that she had been abusing JonBenet? I think that's ridiculous. Even if the didn't know before, he would have found out once the autopsy report showed abuse and the police questioned Patsy and him about it, and I can tell you for 100% certain, any parent who suspected the other one of sexual abuse would have hit the roof and gone after the predator full-force.

    However, both of them would protect Burke. And Burke would have had plenty of access to JonBenet.
    The question cynic asked was

    Who had the type of unquestioned access to JBR that would lead a panel of pediatric experts to conclude that there was chronic sexual abuse?


    So you think Burke had "unquestioned access" to JonBenet? Fine with me.

    To answer your question, yes, I think John would have protected Patsy under the circumstances of her cancer and the treatments she underwent; because not protecting her would have adversely affected the family's social status; because it would be a personal embarrassment for him, Burke, and other family members; because they had to maintain a facade of being a perfect family; because he couldn't stand the thoughts of her dying in a prison.

  4. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    The question cynic asked was

    [/B]So you think Burke had "unquestioned access" to JonBenet? Fine with me.

    To answer your question, yes, I think John would have protected Patsy under the circumstances of her cancer and the treatments she underwent; because not protecting her would have adversely affected the family's social status; because it would be a personal embarrassment for him, Burke, and other family members; because they had to maintain a facade of being a perfect family; because he couldn't stand the thoughts of her dying in a prison.
    I think several of the family members had this kind of access, not restricted to the three people in the home that night, for that matter.

    I rule out none of them.

    I also agree that John Ramsey would have protected Patsy, and vice versa.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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    3 Dimensional

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  5. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    The question cynic asked was

    [/B]So you think Burke had "unquestioned access" to JonBenet? Fine with me.

    To answer your question, yes, I think John would have protected Patsy under the circumstances of her cancer and the treatments she underwent; because not protecting her would have adversely affected the family's social status; because it would be a personal embarrassment for him, Burke, and other family members; because they had to maintain a facade of being a perfect family; because he couldn't stand the thoughts of her dying in a prison.
    I think you judge Ramsey much too kindly. Did he help Patsy during her treatments? She was alone, as far as I have ever heard. A personal embarrassment for him if Patsy had abused JonBenet? No, I think he would have reveled in the injustice of it all and been happy to throw Patsy under the bus. He was not protective of Patsy.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  6. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    So you think John would protect Patsy if he found out that she had been abusing JonBenet? I think that's ridiculous. Even if the didn't know before, he would have found out once the autopsy report showed abuse and the police questioned Patsy and him about it, and I can tell you for 100% certain, any parent who suspected the other one of sexual abuse would have hit the roof and gone after the predator full-force.

    However, both of them would protect Burke. And Burke would have had plenty of access to JonBenet.
    I'm afraid I disagree with your blanket belief that no parent would ever cover for the other.

    I am familiar with a personal friend whose mother protected a step-parent's sexual abuse of her--from ages 12 to 18, when she finally ran away to escape his violent abuse and control over her life. When she was 13, she not only told her mother, her mother blamed her.

    There are so many cases of parents covering up for all kinds of terrible things the other--or both--have done to their own blood children, I am rather surprised you don't know of any.

    I'm sorry to say, turns out it's that kind of world.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  7. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I'm afraid I disagree with your blanket belief that no parent would ever cover for the other.

    I am familiar with a personal friend whose mother protected a step-parent's sexual abuse of her--from ages 12 to 18, when she finally ran away to escape his violent abuse and control over her life. When she was 13, she not only told her mother, her mother blamed her.

    There are so many cases of parents covering up for all kinds of terrible things the other--or both--have done to their own blood children, I am rather surprised you don't know of any.

    I'm sorry to say, turns out it's that kind of world.
    Oh, I know of that kind of thing, I'm not naive and didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday!

    I still don't think John or Patsy would cover up for the other. I just don't. John seems too detached and just self-centered, and Patsy...well, she could really get into the role of the wronged wife, don't you think??

    I don't know, the world just seems to be getting worse and worse. It's depressing, it really is.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  8. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I think several of the family members had this kind of access, not restricted to the three people in the home that night, for that matter.

    I rule out none of them.

    I also agree that John Ramsey would have protected Patsy, and vice versa.
    BBM. I don't rule out any family member either KK but I see Patsy as the one having unquestioned access. Maybe it is the questionable access that is the problem.

    One thing that concerns me is what Priscilla White said about wanting to approach Patsy after Christmas about the "Mega-JonBenet thing." Patsy claimed that she was JonBenet's mother yet knew nothing so how could Priscilla know anything (or words to that effect). I'd love to know what was meant by that.

    My second big hang-up is how three detectives (Arndt, Kolar and Thomas) could come up with three suspects, Kolar and Thomas in particular with Kolar seemingly believing Burke was responsible and Thomas plainly stating he believed Patsy was the killer, although I never quite decided exactly what Kolar was saying.

    All the evidence known to the public fits in my mind as suggesting Thomas was correct. What precipitated the event that killed JonBenet is where I believe Burke fits-in, if he fits at all.

  9. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    I think you judge Ramsey much too kindly. Did he help Patsy during her treatments? She was alone, as far as I have ever heard. A personal embarrassment for him if Patsy had abused JonBenet? No, I think he would have reveled in the injustice of it all and been happy to throw Patsy under the bus. He was not protective of Patsy.
    Oh, I agree he was not protective of Patsy. Imo, he was protective of the image the family presented to the public and Patsy may have had some knowledge of him and/or his behaviors he didn't want the rest of the world to find out about ... maybe. I see him as an "I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch my back" kind of guy.

  10. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    A pleasure, as always but it shouldn’t be this way. The talking heads out there should maybe think about earning some of the $$$$$$ that they make and actually investigate the facts of the case. Perhaps they should study Charlie Brennan.

    Things like this make my head hurt. (From Nancy DisGrace’s FB page.)

    6-yr-old beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey is found murdered in the basement of her home - no one has ever been held responsible for her death! Court documents just released reveal a secret grand jury wanted to indict the Ramsey's! Grand jury believed JonBenet's parents even knew their daughter's killer, even acting to help cover up the crime! However, the district attorney decided not to file charges at the time because of insufficient evidence, and in 2008, he then said DNA completely cleared JonBenet’s parents. What evidence led the jury to make this claim? #JonBenet www.HLNtv.com/Nancy

    https://www.facebook.com/NancyGraceH...type=1&theater
    He? HE?!!! It was Mary friggin' Lacy, a FEMALE District Attorney who fraudulently "cleared" the Ramseys!

    Geez, can NONE of the talking heads get their facts straight?!! Obviously, they are paid the big bucks for talking, NOT knowing case evidence.

  11. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    BBM. I don't rule out any family member either KK but I see Patsy as the one having unquestioned access. Maybe it is the questionable access that is the problem.

    One thing that concerns me is what Priscilla White said about wanting to approach Patsy after Christmas about the "Mega-JonBenet thing." Patsy claimed that she was JonBenet's mother yet knew nothing so how could Priscilla know anything (or words to that effect). I'd love to know what was meant by that.

    My second big hang-up is how three detectives (Arndt, Kolar and Thomas) could come up with three suspects, Kolar and Thomas in particular with Kolar seemingly believing Burke was responsible and Thomas plainly stating he believed Patsy was the killer, although I never quite decided exactly what Kolar was saying.

    All the evidence known to the public fits in my mind as suggesting Thomas was correct. What precipitated the event that killed JonBenet is where I believe Burke fits-in, if he fits at all.
    Yes, this is a problem for me as well. But I could never see how Patsy could have caused JonBenet's head injuries, not as described. The elements just didn't add up for me. Kolar's eyes are the most recent ones to go through the files, and more of his analysis makes sense to me. (Arndt had little experience and was biased by her own experience in other areas.)

    But I have had no access to the case files, so I will never know.

    Nice to see you back btw.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  12. #24

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    John did everything he thought he could do for patsy while she was undergoing her chemo. I am not speaking up for him here. He just didn't have what we would now call "tools" to deal with the horror of stage 3c gynecological cancer. When he was raised, cancer wasn't discussed. When patsy was diagnosed, he found a trial that kept her alive for ten years, a noble achievement. Nedra did the grunt work, which was how everyone would have expected then. Patsy got a nice remission.

    Good will and action by all. Nobody dealt with the psychological damage that ensued, eventually causing the violent demise of JonBenet.



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