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  1. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    Elle, thanks for the reply. I am one of the ones who doesn't read into the "island of privacy" on the children's medical records as meaning it had to only be because one or both were exhibiting inappropriate sexual behaviors. It could mean that but it could also be many other things as well.

    Interesting thought about JonBenet and one of her friends perhaps antagonizing Burke over some sort of issue, especially something Burke could not have changed. Children can be cruel.

    I agree that the adults were trying to hide something about the night JonBenet was killed but I think it most likely Patsy killed JonBenet in a fit of rage. Now who Patsy was enraged at is the $118,000 question in my mind.
    I too, am one of the posters who thinks Patsy just plain lost it when she found JonBenét had soiled her bed again, and especially with them leaving for Charlevoix. She didn't have the patience for the usual cleanup. Her housekeeper Linda Hoffman Pugh stated many times Patsy had the sheets in the dryer when she arrived in the morning.

    About Burke being teased, I just read an article recently which may have been in FFJ (?). It was a copy of a letter from one of Jonbenét's friends written to JonBenét telling her how much she missed her after she died, and mentioned the fun they had teasing Burke. You are well up-to-date
    and may well have read it.

    Just recently I read an article relating to young children aged
    from 8 - 10 and a bit older who were sexually active in some form. Oh geez! I'm still stunned about this!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  2. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    Children who have been sexually abused display inappropriate behavior, which can be interpreted as "flirty," but which is, as you say, "too sexualized," because they have been molested. The molester will frequently tell them lies like, "You know you like this too, so stop crying," or, "This feels good and you know it." The molester also rewards them with praise, etc. for acting as he/she wants them to, i.e. flirting, acting sexual.

    I don't know, maybe both of the children had been molested by some other family member, and Burke acted out for some other reason. It's possible, I suppose. He certainly had late incontinence. Sometimes that can be hereditary, however. In the book, Chief Kolar mentions reports that Burke had smeared feces (his own?) on a bathroom wall when Patsy was ill with cancer. I don't know how old he would have been, but certainly older than the age when kids decide to paint the wall with their excrement. And there were also feces in JonBenet's room, on a box of candy, and in some pajamas that were much too large for her. So, there were definitely problems that were out of the ordinary for children the age of Burke and JonBenet.

    But no matter how long we argue about it, sadly, we will never know what happened in the Ramsey house that night.
    I know you have a good understanding of children heymom, and have worked closely with them, and you know a lot more than many of us do. For sure the Ramsey children needed special attention, and we all know for sure, with Patsy's illness it must have been neglected somewhat.
    I always learn something from your wonderful posts. Thank you!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  3. #27
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    BOESP,

    I found the post with JoBenét's letter from a friend. Thanks to cynic and KoldKase!


    December 13, 2012, 12:06 am, Thu Dec 13 0:06:56 CST 2012

    cynic
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by koldkase
    I wonder if any of the kids who played at the Ramsey home or with their children ever saw anything like this before.

    Remember Judith Phillips daughter wrote that "letter to JB" which was published by a tab, in which she described Burke chasing them into a bathroom after they teased him over a videogame?

    It makes me wonder how many people do know the truth in this case, but have kept silent because they don't want to be sued, and the good old DA's Club of Colorado have made it clear they'll go after them one way or another--remember Doc Miller's trial? How Hunter smeared the entire White family with his well-placed innuendo?


    Hey KK, here it is - from 10 years ago:

    Dear JonBenet:

    I have been missing your for six years now, and seeing your face on television and sometimes in the papers. We had such happy times together - in your pink bedroom, in your garden, all through your house.
    Do you remember how my mom taught us, at the Boulder Salad place, when we were spooning the ice cream into our cones to tap the cones halfway through to make the ice cream sink so we could get more in? That was the last time we saw each other and it was such a good time.
    I sure wish you were with me now that we're teenagers. Even when I knew you, you were never just this little kid running around. You always had plans, some project or other, something to do. I was never bored when I was with you.
    Now, we could hang out on campus and look at what the college girls are wearing...There's another mall to go to now, too, as big as a town in itself with its own streets.
    Remember when we'd tease your brother all the time?
    "Let's go bother Burke," you'd say. And so we would go in his room , where he was playing his Nintendo endlessly and unplug his computer. And then he would say "Heck, I was at the highest level!" And we would run away, go in your bathroom and lock the door, and he would be banging on it and we would be giggling behind it.
    The last time I saw him (Burke) we were at Dougie's house and he was so sad and grieving and hardly could talk from missing you. I wanted to hug him, but I couldn't.
    The last year you had a pink Christmas tree in your room... You would be great at team sports because you always got along with everybody.
    I know you loved your life and I loved your life too. And knowing how much you loved yours, I must love mine the more.

    Love forever,
    Your friend,
    Lindsey

    Globe, December 17, 2002

    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  4. #28
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    Thank you Elle! I had forgotten about that. It is interesting on several levels isn't it.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    Elle, thanks for the reply. I am one of the ones who doesn't read into the "island of privacy" on the children's medical records as meaning it had to only be because one or both were exhibiting inappropriate sexual behaviors. It could mean that but it could also be many other things as well.

    Interesting thought about JonBenet and one of her friends perhaps antagonizing Burke over some sort of issue, especially something Burke could not have changed. Children can be cruel.

    I agree that the adults were trying to hide something about the night JonBenet was killed but I think it most likely Patsy killed JonBenet in a fit of rage. Now who Patsy was enraged at is the $118,000 question in my mind.
    I am definitely back to the drawing board totally thinking that PDI&fit of rage is possible.
    I made a huge mistake and watched

    http://www.lifestyle.com.au/tv/diets-crazy-mums/


    I went CRAZY when I did more research on Sasha Bennington....that POOR child,will NEVER have a normal life because of her PSYCHO EVIL "mom"...and the dad?PFFF...what a loser...and the younger non existent brother....this type of monster mom is definitely capable of murder if the daughter one day decides to say NO,I am DONE.....if this is not abuse I don't know what it is....:((
    M. Lacy: "You know, no-one is really cleared of a homicide until there’s a conviction, in court beyond a reasonable doubt. And I don’t think you will get any prosecutor… unless they were present with the person at the time of the crime… to clear someone."

  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    Thank you Elle! I had forgotten about that. It is interesting on several levels isn't it.
    Yes, it is BOESP and also very sad! Although not one Ramsey was arrested for little JonBenét's death, it can't be easy for John and Burk Ramsey living the rest of their lives not knowing when JonBenét's death will be back in the news again (?). However, "they are still living!"
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    BOESP,

    I found the post with JoBenét's letter from a friend. Thanks to cynic and KoldKase!


    December 13, 2012, 12:06 am, Thu Dec 13 0:06:56 CST 2012

    cynic
    Member

    Join Date: Nov 2009
    Posts: 567





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by koldkase
    I wonder if any of the kids who played at the Ramsey home or with their children ever saw anything like this before.

    Remember Judith Phillips daughter wrote that "letter to JB" which was published by a tab, in which she described Burke chasing them into a bathroom after they teased him over a videogame?

    It makes me wonder how many people do know the truth in this case, but have kept silent because they don't want to be sued, and the good old DA's Club of Colorado have made it clear they'll go after them one way or another--remember Doc Miller's trial? How Hunter smeared the entire White family with his well-placed innuendo?


    Hey KK, here it is - from 10 years ago:

    Dear JonBenet:

    I have been missing your for six years now, and seeing your face on television and sometimes in the papers. We had such happy times together - in your pink bedroom, in your garden, all through your house.
    Do you remember how my mom taught us, at the Boulder Salad place, when we were spooning the ice cream into our cones to tap the cones halfway through to make the ice cream sink so we could get more in? That was the last time we saw each other and it was such a good time.
    I sure wish you were with me now that we're teenagers. Even when I knew you, you were never just this little kid running around. You always had plans, some project or other, something to do. I was never bored when I was with you.
    Now, we could hang out on campus and look at what the college girls are wearing...There's another mall to go to now, too, as big as a town in itself with its own streets.
    Remember when we'd tease your brother all the time?
    "Let's go bother Burke," you'd say. And so we would go in his room , where he was playing his Nintendo endlessly and unplug his computer. And then he would say "Heck, I was at the highest level!" And we would run away, go in your bathroom and lock the door, and he would be banging on it and we would be giggling behind it.
    The last time I saw him (Burke) we were at Dougie's house and he was so sad and grieving and hardly could talk from missing you. I wanted to hug him, but I couldn't.
    The last year you had a pink Christmas tree in your room... You would be great at team sports because you always got along with everybody.
    I know you loved your life and I loved your life too. And knowing how much you loved yours, I must love mine the more.

    Love forever,
    Your friend,
    Lindsey

    Globe, December 17, 2002

    I suppose it's possible that with enough therapy, Burke did get to a point where he grieved for his sister. Maybe that came in a breakthrough for him. The little girl in the YouTube video did finally develop empathy and showed appropriate emotions for the harm she had done, although sociopaths can learn what they are expected to do and "fake it" well enough to convince others that they are sincerely experiencing emotion when they are not feeling any such emotions.

    I'll bet JonBenet could be quite annoying to her older brother. If he did not have any attachment to her, like a normal brother-sister relationship would allow, then I can see him losing his temper and causing her harm. The scene I see is Burke going down to open the presents being hidden in the basement, and JonBenet following him down there and saying she was going to tell on him. He may have chased her, she may have screamed in fear, and then he grabbed a golf club and whacked her over the head. Not knowing, of course, that he was strong enough and angry enough to crack her skull in half. Then he tried to wake her back up with the train track and perhaps other things. Eventually he saw she was not going to wake up again and he went upstairs, not sure if he told Patsy at that point or just went to bed. Probably he told her. The scream may have been Patsy finding JonBenet. Anyway, after some phone calls, the cover up began.

    With a lot of therapy, perhaps Burke did grieve for his sister.

    I do wonder if that letter was even real, or if the tabs made it up.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  8. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    I suppose it's possible that with enough therapy, Burke did get to a point where he grieved for his sister. Maybe that came in a breakthrough for him. The little girl in the YouTube video did finally develop empathy and showed appropriate emotions for the harm she had done, although sociopaths can learn what they are expected to do and "fake it" well enough to convince others that they are sincerely experiencing emotion when they are not feeling any such emotions.

    I'll bet JonBenet could be quite annoying to her older brother. If he did not have any attachment to her, like a normal brother-sister relationship would allow, then I can see him losing his temper and causing her harm. The scene I see is Burke going down to open the presents being hidden in the basement, and JonBenet following him down there and saying she was going to tell on him. He may have chased her, she may have screamed in fear, and then he grabbed a golf club and whacked her over the head. Not knowing, of course, that he was strong enough and angry enough to crack her skull in half. Then he tried to wake her back up with the train track and perhaps other things. Eventually he saw she was not going to wake up again and he went upstairs, not sure if he told Patsy at that point or just went to bed. Probably he told her. The scream may have been Patsy finding JonBenet. Anyway, after some phone calls, the cover up began.

    With a lot of therapy, perhaps Burke did grieve for his sister.

    I do wonder if that letter was even real, or if the tabs made it up.
    I'm thinking Burke must have gone through a very trying time, heymom, as he grew older and going over the loss of his sister, plus the case being in the newspapers for years. It can't be easy for him to lead a normal life. I do believe he went through a very trying time with young
    JonBenét.

    I think if this letter had been false, I thinkwe would have heard something about it! I see there are a few You Tube videos on the net
    for JonBenét. What a beautiful little girl she was.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  9. #33

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    Thanks for finding that, cynic. I always felt this was Judith's way of sharing her insights into the Ramsey family.

    In 2012 and 2013 we've inched closer to the truth in this case. How long and hard fought were the battles to get here? What brave and righteous people stood up and refused to accept the shame of this murder and cover-up, at great risk to their own careers and well-being?

    I have no expectation of ever seeing that last mile to Justice covered, but nobody can say those who truly have worked to get there didn't do their best for this little child.

    You are all unsung heroes in the war against child abuse.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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    3 Dimensional

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    My opinions, nothing more.

  10. #34
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    Default Guess that's it for now...

    I am sad that the news died down so quickly. Has Charlie Brennan made any statements about the case? I'm sure he's still talking about it, at least I hope he is, and I hope he's still pursuing more of the case documents.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    I am sad that the news died down so quickly. Has Charlie Brennan made any statements about the case? I'm sure he's still talking about it, at least I hope he is, and I hope he's still pursuing more of the case documents.
    I expected this, heymom. The time period between new info is longer and longer, it seems.

    So pack a lunch and come back to check on us from time to time.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  12. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I expected this, heymom. The time period between new info is longer and longer, it seems.

    So pack a lunch and come back to check on us from time to time.
    Oh, I will, KK! Don't you worry - I'm here for the duration! JonBenet deserves justice no matter how many years it's been since her death. And God delivers miracles every single day.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!



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