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  1. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    You can go on and on ad nauseum about punctuation mistakes in the ransom novel and spiderwebs in the window well. You will be talking to yourself at this point.

    After following this case since it started, the current information satisfies me fairly well, both as to what happened and why it was never prosecuted. It's not a happy conclusion, since we will never have an actual prosecution of any of the responsible parties, but it ties up a lot of loose ends that we have wondered about and struggled to understand from the beginning.

    There is a lot of evidence that we will never see, unfortunately. Chief Kolar saw it all, every last bit, and he came to the same conclusion that the CBS show did, although I do wonder if he thought there was intent. Certainly the GJ believed there was, because they charged both John and Patsy with obstruction and covering up a 1st degree murder, not an accidental homicide.

    So go on yapping about spiders and unknown women who wrote a 3-page ransom note on Patsy's pad with Patsy's pen in Patsy's handwriting with Patsy's phraseology. I no longer have time for this nonsense.

    RIP JonBenet, you deserved better than this.
    To that most gracious Parthian shot, all I can say is to iterate:

    "People here make it very difficult to allow for even the possibility for PR to have been innocent." Perhaps Mrs. Ramsey deserved better as well.

  2. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel XVI View Post
    To that most gracious Parthian shot, all I can say is to iterate:

    "People here make it very difficult to allow for even the possibility for PR to have been innocent." Perhaps Mrs. Ramsey deserved better as well.
    People here have studied the case since day 1.
    People here agree with the indictment.
    People here believe the indictment should have been signed by Alex Hunter and the case prosecuted.

    You are on the wrong board if you are in hopes we will convert to your line of thinking. No one here believes for a nanosecond that there was one intruder...much less 2...That dog won't hunt.
    It's probably too late to get justice for JonBenťt. Maybe it always was. But knowing where things went wrong is the first step to not going there again. **-- Alan Prendergast-Dec 21, 2006--**

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  3. #87

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    @Moab - You wrote:

    "People here have studied the case since day 1.
    People here agree with the indictment.
    People here believe the indictment should have been signed by Alex Hunter and the case prosecuted.

    "You are on the wrong board if you are in hopes we will convert to your line of thinking. No one here believes for a nanosecond that there was one intruder...much less 2...That dog won't hunt."

    I don’t believe there were two intruders. I was just openly musing upon the implications of the DNA from the same man found on two separate articles of clothing of the victim’s. Perhaps there is some explanation for that. I’ve always thought that this crime, the note and motivation, has all the hallmarks of a woman about it. What is the consensus here, please, concerning the DNA that led Ms. Lacy to conclude that the family should be exonerated? Why is it apparently dismissed?

    Mr. Ramsey strikes me as a very conventional man of his generation and background, a high tech executive who still wore a suit and tie; ex military. His religious convictions strike me as genuine. Yes, I can still see him covering up for his son (but not his wife). However, I have difficulty in believing he would allow an innocent person to pay for a crime he knows that that person did not commit. I read that he was, for at least awhile, fixated on some man from the area, whose name I cannot now recall, who was allegedly a pedophile.

    BTW, I just discovered that Mr. England passed away in 2010. I offer my belated condolences. Who was he? What was his field of endeavor?
    Last edited by Daniel XVI; September 24, 2016, 3:59 pm at Sat Sep 24 15:59:23 UTC 2016. Reason: Forgot to quote before posting a reply

  4. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel XVI View Post
    Just something made up? Thatís seems a serious charge to level against former Boulder DA Mary Lacy. For you to assert such, I assume you have some evidence.

    Nevertheless, perhaps there is some explanation for it besides proving the presence of a male intruder that fateful night. It throws something (but not entirely) of a monkey wrench in my theory as well as I strongly agree that the ransom note was written by a woman. I suppose it is possible that there were two intruders, one male and one female; or, in the event of such a sinister collaboration, more likely a woman wrote the note off site and the male brought it with him to leave behind after dispatching the girl. Iíve never considered this before, a murderer and an accomplice. If so, I rather suspect that woman was the driving force who left the actual dirty work to her man.

    So Mary Lacy said that. I was wondering exactly where it came from. I never saw the evidence that she offered that there was indeed matching dna, just that she said so. If you can show me something different, please do.

    It wouldn't surprise me for her to make up something. The DA in a county I used to live in said dna cleared the suspect in a triple homicide where two children and their mother were murdered. It just wasn't so, sorry.
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  5. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by JC View Post
    So Mary Lacy said that. I was wondering exactly where it came from. I never saw the evidence that she offered that there was indeed matching dna, just that she said so. If you can show me something different, please do.

    It wouldn't surprise me for her to make up something. The DA in a county I used to live in said dna cleared the suspect in a triple homicide where two children and their mother were murdered. It just wasn't so, sorry.
    Iím uncertain what your point is. You are implying that the DNA from the same male found on the childís panties and PJs is fabricated which caused then DA Mary Lacy to exonerate the family in favor of the intruder theory? Iíve never heard anyone make such an assertion before. This documentary simply ignores the fact that the DNA was found on separate articles of JBís clothing and then points out that it is common for trace DNA to be found on even newly unpackaged articles of clothing. Thus, they seem to engage in a straw man argument. It is difficult to discern why these experts did that.

  6. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel XVI View Post
    Iím uncertain what your point is. You are implying that the DNA from the same male found on the childís panties and PJs is fabricated which caused then DA Mary Lacy to exonerate the family in favor of the intruder theory? Iíve never heard anyone make such an assertion before. This documentary simply ignores the fact that the DNA was found on separate articles of JBís clothing and then points out that it is common for trace DNA to be found on even newly unpackaged articles of clothing. Thus, they seem to engage in a straw man argument. It is difficult to discern why these experts did that.
    Likewise, I am unsure what your point is.

    But I will say this. Maybe the documentary ignored what has been said about foreign matching dna being found is because .... well, it wasn't.
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  7. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by JC View Post
    Likewise, I am unsure what your point is.

    But I will say this. Maybe the documentary ignored what has been said about foreign matching dna being found is because .... well, it wasn't.
    From my first note on this thread, #69:

    "Mary Lacy exonerated the Ramseys because there was trace DNA evidence from the same male on two separate articles of clothing. This documentary tries to dismiss this DNA consideration by pointing out that even newly unwrapped articles of clothing can have trace DNA on it, probably from a factory worker. But the same factory worker handled the same two articles of clothing? Were they even made in the same factory or country? I’m skeptical as was Ms. Lacy."

    What is your source for denying that such exists? As I said, I've never heard that before.

  8. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel XVI View Post
    From my first note on this thread, #69:

    "Mary Lacy exonerated the Ramseys because there was trace DNA evidence from the same male on two separate articles of clothing. This documentary tries to dismiss this DNA consideration by pointing out that even newly unwrapped articles of clothing can have trace DNA on it, probably from a factory worker. But the same factory worker handled the same two articles of clothing? Were they even made in the same factory or country? Iím skeptical as was Ms. Lacy."

    What is your source for denying that such exists? As I said, I've never heard that before.
    What is your source for saying the dna was from the same male? I have never read this. Don't quote your own statement or Mary Lacy please.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  9. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom View Post
    What is your source for saying the dna was from the same male? I have never read this. Don't quote your own statement or Mary Lacy please.
    Since no one from your side seems willing or able to make your case, I suppose I’ll have to do it for you:

    “The results of the DNA test ultimately showed that genetic material recovered from JonBenťt’s long johns matched the unknown male profile previously identified from blood found in her underwear, prompting Lacy to formally clear the Ramseys in a June 2008 apology letter to the family.

    “But when current Boulder DA Stan Garnett was elected in 2009 and took over the case, Coombes says he became aware of a mishandling of the DNA testing, that 'They had deviated and dropped down to four markers as opposed to the standard [13]' usually used in forensic analysis.

    “'We all shed DNA all the time within our skin cells. It can be deposited anywhere at any time for various reasons, reasons that are benign,' Coombes says. 'To clear somebody just on the premise of touch DNA, especially when you have a situation where the crime scene wasn’t secure at the beginning . . . really is a stretch.'"

    http://nypost.com/2016/09/12/jonbene...-dna-evidence/

    Note that no one that I am aware of is making an accusation that there was no such trace DNA evidence found on the child’s panties and PJs, only skepticism based upon that the result of the DNA testing might have been tainted for reasons indicated above. Not being an expert on DNA testing I cannot offer an intelligent assessment. I’m sure, however, that Ms. Lacy could produce experts to defend the testing: the hallmark, unfortunately, of this entire case. This expert says that; that expert says this.

    That scenario in this docudrama seems perfectly plausible, this scenario in that docudrama seems equally plausible. Steve Thomas became convinced that one of the Ramseys must have been guilty so with nothing more than rank speculation he fixated on Patsy in a moment of rage (perhaps fed by fatigue) engendered by JB having wet her bed yet again, so her mother bashed her head against the bathtub while bathing her; thus, bed wetting became enshrined in the canon of the PDI legend.

    Now we have the scenario where her nine-year-old brother bashed her in the head with a flashlight in rage over her taking a piece of pineapple that the boy was eating. Take one’s pick of Ramsey family murderers and one’s pick from the subset of scenarios as to why. One’s as good as the next it seems.

    It can’t even be conclusively established if the girl died of the head injury or strangulation and which came first. Again, this expert, that expert. Of course, all the RDI advocates huffily state it was the head wound for if it were strangulation then that seriously weakens their case. If JB had been strangled first, then that strongly points to premeditated murder and it is extremely difficult to explain why any of the Ramseys had motive and malice aforethought to plan the child’s murder.
    Last edited by Daniel XVI; September 26, 2016, 12:49 pm at Mon Sep 26 12:49:21 UTC 2016.

  10. #94
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    I've been re-reading James Kolar's book. All the dna evidence is discussed there. It is recapped on pp 413 and 414.
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  11. #95
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    "There had been trace DNA samples located in the crotch and waistband of her underwear that belonged to an unidentified male. This became known as Distal Stain 00-2.

    "The new technology of Touch DNA identified trace samples in the waistband of the leggings that matched the unidentified male DNA (Distal Stain 007-2) in the underwear."

    My bad.
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  12. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by JC View Post
    "There had been trace DNA samples located in the crotch and waistband of her underwear that belonged to an unidentified male. This became known as Distal Stain 00-2.

    "The new technology of Touch DNA identified trace samples in the waistband of the leggings that matched the unidentified male DNA (Distal Stain 007-2) in the underwear."

    My bad.
    Thank you. How does Chief Kolar explain this in his book since he believes the family's guilty? Does he question the test results in accordance with the article I linked to?



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