Writing DOI

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Nandee, Jan 5, 2002.

  1. Nandee

    Nandee FFJ Senior Member

    NYL asked Patsy how she wrote DOI... Her memory was fuzzy, but her publisher remembered just how the book was written:

    NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- In their new book about the killing of JonBenet Ramsey, the girl's parents write about people they consider suspects, including some who have not been pursued by police, the publisher said Tuesday.

    ``It's people who have been mentioned before. There will be a couple of others, but not by name,'' said Rolf Zettersten, publisher of Thomas Nelson Publishers, a Nashville-based company that specializes in books with religious themes.
    ***clip



    http://www.crimelynx.com/ramsusp.html


    From Patsy's depo:


    5 Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) I will withdraw
    6 that question and ask you very simply, explain
    7 exactly how you worked with Reverend Wise on
    8 writing the book.
    9 A. Well, he would sit, and we would
    10 talk. I had some things that I had written, and
    11 sometimes he would ask questions about things.
    12 It was kind of a back and forth. Sometimes he
    13 would take something I had written and edit, and
    14 then would -- I mean, it was kind of an evolving
    15 process.
    16 Q. Did he use a tape recorder to tape
    17 any of the things you were saying?
    18 A. I believe so, yes.
    19 Q. Did you give him written notes to
    20 look at?
    21 A. I can't remember exactly. I don't --
    22 Q. Did you prepare notes for the book,
    23 written notes?
    24 A. Yes. Sometimes -- I mean, I had
    25 some things I had written and some things we
    21
    1 just talked about.
    2 Q. Did you keep copies of your notes?
    3 A. No, I did not.
    4 Q. Do you know what happened to your
    5 notes?
    6 A. They were thrown away as I finished
    7 with that part of the writing.
    8 Q. You threw them away?
    9 A. Yes.

    -----------
    <font color="#9999CC"><i>Edited to turn off "smilies" in this post. -Dunvegan</i></font color>

    Edited for compliance of "fair use."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2002
  2. Vic

    Vic Active Member

    threw away the notes

    Imagine that. Seems kind of hard to "throw away notes" from a computer. The correct description would be "deleted" when speaking about a computer.

    Could it be she's lying? (again)

    Good to see you here, Nandee, I always enjoyed your posts on WS.
     
  3. Nandee

    Nandee FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks Vic..

    I really enjoyed going through the depos and finding discrepancies.....

    I'd love to be in NYL's head so I knew where he was going with some of his questions..... Like Patsy's morning routine and her black robe??
     
  4. Dunvegan

    Dunvegan Guest

    Hmmm...the publisher must be mistaken...

    The Ramseys have said that they do not own a computer...

    <ul><li>...except that John Ramsey made his modest fortune as a computer re-seller for Sun Microsystems and Silicon Graphics...

    <li>...that a laptop was reported by John Ramsey as stolen by the Well-Dressed, Well-Spoken Black Gentleman Robber during the "freak-in" at the Paces Ferry house....</ul>
     
  5. Nandee

    Nandee FFJ Senior Member

    Dunvegan

    Right! They can't keep their stories straight!
    :laughup:
     
  6. Dunvegan

    Dunvegan Guest

    I've wondered about the Ramseys computer data...

    ...it is VERY difficult to really and truly "throw away" or delete data (and makes me wonder if the "freak-in" by John Ramsey's "Black Gentleman" wasn't <b><i>necessary</i></b>.

    Here is an excerpt from a post I wrote to the old Justice Watch forum:
    <hr>
    I had to take certification from an extraordinary company of highly-specialized and ex-spook/NSA/FBI/police gone geek, when I worked at Logictier last year. NTI only allows governmental agency employees, and police into this course, usually…but, because we were sponsoring the 2002 Olympic Games, had international and domestic terrorism concerns, and the Director of Security is an old friend of theirs from his NASDAQ days, they waived the law enforcement requirement so that I could take this course.

    This was under-the-hood, hand’s on, 12-hr. a day training, and it trained us not only how to get the goods, but also how to present them so that they will stand up in court.

    The company in Oregon is called <b><a href="http://www.forensics-intl.com">NTI.</a></b>

    If you’re interested you can go to <b><a href="http://www.forensics-intl.com/forensics.html">HERE</a></b> to see a description of what I had to learn to earn my diploma

    If the authorities correctly seize computers (and all disks and other germane electronic jetsam, analyze correctly the AOL audit trail, and carefully trace the source and destination IPs , Syn/Ack, and tracerouting…and if they also handle those machines and log files (and all other data material) of Jamz judicially, the authorities will probably have themselves an incredible gold mine (or, at least long and winding a slime line) there.

    And, with the right tools, they even know exactly where you’ve been. Here’s an excerpt from the CNN report…it’s exactly the training I went through, BTW:

    <ol>…on the third day, we apply our previous sessions to finding our diploma, which happens to be broken into pieces and buried deep in slack and unallocated space.

    “We had already learned how to use Norton's DiskEdit to view erased files; how to use NTI's Filter-I to cleanse binary information, allow us to examine plain text lurking in slack and unallocated space, and swap files; how to use TextSearch Plus to keyword search through the reams of data uncovered with Filter-I and IP-Filter; and how to use Norton's DiskEdit to piece the data together.

    “However, Anderson throws us a curve: He has encrypted the directory. Working from previous lessons, my partner, Lockheed's Best, and I found the bad guy's fileencryption cracker (hidden in a file called fun.exe) and loaded it. It did the trick.

    “Now it's time to see what we've got in the directory. A couple of files, including one deleted file (recognizable by the telltale Greek Sigma) look suspect to us, so we make a note of them. When we run Filter-I to view plaintext lingering on unallocated space, we see the word "diploma" on a few headers of what are obviously zipped files. We word search the rest of the file allocation table for the word "diploma."</ol>

    NTI was tough, but good. To get our diplomas, we were given an erased floppy, that had an erased messages encrypted protected by passwords. We had to restore the floppy, and source the writer to get our diplomas.

    Recovered electronic records have lead to many conviction (even in murder cases.) The delete button doesn’t do anything other than dissociate the files and their directory listings. And that's elementary easy to recover, because almost all the clues are in the first string of the "erased file".

    Erased files are (unless overwritten, and that's not impossible, just a harder recovery task) just sitting there, leaving open their sector space of overwrite, if needed. And, the NSA, can recover data, even if you take an industrial strength magnet to your hard drive.

    There’s Netscape and other application caches full of information on where you’ve visited…windows “slack space†that holds unmarked data for a very long time and can be read with the training and the right tools most easily. Here are just a few of the places that, with the right tools, you can recover almost all data:

    <ol><li>Windows swap files
    <li>MD5 algorithms for validating transaction and pinpointing exactly who did what and when.
    <li>Data hiding technique recovery
    <li>…and lot’s more on the NTI page if you take a peek.</ol>Information on your computer is (even the crashed or erased stuff) is still right there...you just have to know how to go in and get it.

    Even if the file is fragmented, the doc headers plus sector analysis give you enough hexadecimal and integration information to entirely reconstruct the original document.

    This is an excellent article who took the course, and wrote for CNN Interactive: Deborah Radcliff.

    It’s called “Handling Crime in the 21st Century,†and well outlines the workings of what NTI teaches: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9812/15/cybersleuth.idg/index.html

    <b><i>BTW, Lockheed uses NTI to cover their computer forensics and data recovery services now…starting in early of 1997. Interesting.</i></b>
     
  7. Nandee

    Nandee FFJ Senior Member

    Wow

    Great post!!! Thanks!!
     
  8. Dunvegan

    Dunvegan Guest

    BTW...there's a company in Germany...

    ...that does data retrievals that have been working on hard drives found in the rubble of the WTC.

    Although incredibly punished, this firm is retrieving upwards of <b> 90%</b> of the data on the hard drives (!)

    Which is part of the investigation into the spike in trading shorted shares of American and United Airlines just before the attacks.

    Really amazing restorative effort (...now, if I can only find the article...I'll post it.)

    Methinks that if there was anything at all incriminating on a certain laptop, then a certain person was incredibly lucky to have such a nice, well-dressed robber relieve him of the problem.
     
  9. Nandee

    Nandee FFJ Senior Member

    lol

    Me thinks you're right!
     
  10. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Ok

    Patsy and John don't own a computer...

    except when they write DOI.

    They write DOI on a computer they don't own and ...

    Patsy throws away the notes..

    but like Dun pointed out that would really be "deleted the notes"

    Great catch Nandee.

    For arguments sake let's say Patsy did keep notes, on paper, while writing the book.

    Wouldn't you think, with an on-going investigation into "that childs" murder Patsy would keep her notes to help her own memory? HELLO!!!!

    If this didn't involve the brutal death of a wonderful child this would be laughable.

    Nandee so glad you are here.

    Dun I :luv: it when you talk that fancy computer talk. I feel smart just reading it!

    Tricia
     
  11. Show Me

    Show Me FFJ Senior Member

    Maybe they borrowed

    the computer from the JonBenet Foundation? lol

    The foundation has very little activity going on... and hey why waste a good pc?
     
  12. AK

    AK Member

    Hahaha

    That's funny, Show Me. But then what would Susan Stine use to help Jams run the Swamp? ;-)
     
  13. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Another Ramsey Lie

    To say they did not own a computer is to say the general public is too dumb to read search warrants! Of course they owned one, and a John Ramsey was found in Boulder to have a Compuserve account, and Compuserve is an ISP, and they had a modem, so it is probable they also had an internet account.
    ~~~~~~~
    On December 28, 1996 Your Affiant saw a computer, monitor, mouse, printer, and removable computer
    storage media. Your Affiant saw this equipment in the play room are on the second floor of the Ramsey
    residence at 755 15th Street, Boulder Colorado. Your Affiant knows that Officer Yamaguchi of the Boulder
    Police Department was helping the search of the Ramsey residence. Officer Yamaguchi told Your Affiant
    that he saw a modem near the computer that was in the play room area of the residence. Officer
    Yamaguchi told Your Affiant that he saw a manual on Compuserve and Compuserve discs located in the
    office of the Ramsey residence. Officer Yamaguchi told Your Affiant that he has several years experience
    in the operation of computers and that he has five years experience as a consultant in the use of
    computers, software, and the Internet. He further states that, using his personal computer, he found that a
    John Ramsey in Boulder, Colorado was a subscriber to Compuserve. Officer Yamaguchi told Your Affiant
    that Compuserve is a company that provides access to the Internet, and that the Internet can be used to
    view text and images of child pornography. Officer Yamaguchi stated to Your Affiant that the text or
    images of child pornography can be collected and saved on the hard drives of computers and on removable
    storage media. He stated to Your Affiant that computers can make electronic records of Internet sites that
    were recently visited on that computer. With this information, Officer Yamaguchi told Your Affiant that an
    investigator can determine if the computer was used to view text or images involving child pornography.
    On December 28, 1996 Your Affiant saw a compact video camera, compact video tapes, and standard
    size video tapes inside the Ramsey residence at 755 15th Street Boulder, Colorado. You Affiant
    personally knows that Detective Linda Arndt's duties include the investigation of child sexual assaults and
    molestations, and that she has attended classes on the investigation of child sexual assault cases.
    Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that, based on her training and experience, some child molesters keep
    collections of photographs, computer images, or videos of children. She further stated that they can
    conceal such videos within commercially labeled video tapes. She further stated to Your Affiant that these
    images may or may not be obviously pornographic in nature. Detective Arndt also told Your Affiant that
    child molesters have been known to video tape the murder of their victim(s).
    Your Affiant is aware that Detective Steve Ainsworth of the Boulder County Sheriff's Department was
    assisting in the processing of the Ramsey residence on December 28, 1996. Detective Ainsworth told
    Your Affiant that the video inside the compact video camera depicted children washing fruit in the kitchen.
    He said this tape was dated August of 1996. He also told Your Affiant that there as another compact video
    tape located next to the compact video camera that is in the kitchen. Officer Yamaguchi told Your Affiant
    that he saw a standard size Betamax video camera. Betamax video tapes, and Betamax player/recorder
    in the main floor study of the residence.
    Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she witnessed the autopsy of JonBenet Ramsey which was
    conducted by Dr. John Meyer on December 27, 1996. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she observed
    Dr. Meyer examine the vaginal area of the victim and heard him state that the victim had received an injury
    constant with digital penetration of her vagina. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer told her that
    it was his opinion that the victim had been subjected to sexual contact. For further details on the autopsy
    see the attached document entitled Addendum To Search Warrant.
    Your Affiant believes that probable cause exists to amend the previously issued two search warrants for
    the premises of 755 15th Street City and County of Boulder, Colorado, as described on the face of the two
    previously issued search warrants for the premises (which are attached hereto and incorporated by
    reference) to search for and seize the following items of evidence which may be of material aid in the
    investigation of the facts surrounding the death of JonBenet Ramsey, to wit:
    All locks or locking mechanisms on exterior entrances and exits, including windows.
    Any exterior surfaces with pry-marks or tool marks which are on or near any entrances to the house.
    All computers, monitors, input/output devices, and removable storage media.
    All video tapes and photographs depicting children.
    James R. Byfield
    Affiant
    Sworn to and subscribed in my presence this 29th of December 1996, in Boulder, Colorado.
    Diane R. MacDonald
    Judge
    ~~~~~~~~~
    Tricia/Dun I hope this doesn't blow the margins, but if it does, you can personally flog me, okay? I figure flogging is better than placing information on the thread without a source...LOL
     
  14. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Hey

    Moab you can blow out our margines anytime right Dun?

    Perfect Moab. Thanks for digging up the hard proof the Ramsey's own a computer.

    Now where exactly is the quote when John or Patsy say they don't have a computer?

    I remember it but I don't have a clue where I read it.

    Thanks
    Tricia
     
  15. fly

    fly Member

    devil in the details

    Perhaps to be fair, somebody should date the Ramsey comments about not owning a computer and compare that to the date of writing DOI before seeing too much in this. As I recall, that comment was made long before DOI got going, and certainly long before the break-in.

    The computers that they certainly did own, but that the police seized under warrant, should not be considered "their" computers any longer, unless they were returned to them (doubtful).

    Personally, I don't find anything strange about having written a book on a computer, using the assistance of handwritten notes. That's often the way I write -- even when writing posts for the forums. Nor do I find anything odd about thowing away those notes after the book is complete. Afterall, even if there is an ongoing investigation, the content of the notes probably would be mostly, if not entirely, presented in the book. No need for the notes when you have the book.
     
  16. Nandee

    Nandee FFJ Senior Member

    fly

    What's odd is that Patsy danced around the question... Why not just say.... I put my thoughts on my computer.... printed it out, then when done, threw the pages away???

    I'm looking for the no computer no tv quote. I think it was around the Walters interview.....

    I'll post it when/if I find it :)
     
  17. fly

    fly Member

    where's the dancing?

    Perhaps PR danced around the question at some other point in the deposition prior to the reprinted segment, but I sure don't see dancing in that segment. Maybe I'm missing something.
     
  18. Nandee

    Nandee FFJ Senior Member

    here ya go....

    20 Q. Could you explain, to the best that
    21 you remember, the process by which you wrote the
    22 book? I mean, did you sit down with a pen and
    23 pad or did you use a Dictaphone? How was the
    24 book written, given that both you and John are
    25 listed as authors, the actual writing process?

    18
    1 MR. WOOD: I object to the form of
    2 the question.
    3 You may answer the question, if you
    4 understand it.
    5 The problem is you kind of sometimes
    6 ask two or three questions within one.
    7 MR. HOFFMAN: I understand.
    8 MR. WOOD: I want her to be clear on
    9 exactly what the question is. I think, correct
    10 me if I am wrong, I think he is trying to find
    11 out whether you actually physically typed on a
    12 computer, dictated into a tape, made handwritten
    13 notes.
    14 Is that what you are asking?
    15 MR. HOFFMAN: Exactly.
    16 MR. WOOD: Do you understand that?
    17 THE WITNESS: I think we did some of
    18 all of that.
    19 Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) Did you and Mr.
    20 Ramsey sit physically together and write the book,
    21 or did you write it in separate, you know,
    22 environments, meaning you are in one part of the
    23 house and he is in another part? Did you
    24 compose it that way?
    25 A. Some of all of that. We were living

    19
    1 in an apartment at the time, so it was a small
    2 living space. So we were --
    3 Q. At some point, I believe there was --
    4 well, I will withdraw that question.
    5 Did anyone else assist you in writing
    6 the book?
    7 A. We had an editor that was provided by
    8 the publisher and a ghost writer, if you want to
    9 call it that, who helped us with some of the
    10 structure and organization.
    11 Q. Who is the ghost writer?
    12 A. I think his name is in the book
    13 there somewhere. Let's see. Oh, Robert Wise,
    14 Reverend Robert Wise.
    15 Q. When you looked at the final
    16 manuscript of the book, was it very different
    17 from what you had originally prepared and given
    18 to Mr. Wise, or Reverend Wise?
    19 MR. WOOD: Are you assuming they
    20 prepared a manuscript and gave to it Wise and
    21 then got back a manuscript?
    22 MR. HOFFMAN: At some point, I am
    23 assuming that their work product was turned into
    24 a manuscript of some sort and that Mr. Wise
    25 worked with it in some way.

    20
    1 MR. WOOD: Well, I am not sure that
    2 is right. It may have been given to him
    3 piecemeal, Darnay. I think you need to figure
    4 that out first.
    5 Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) I will withdraw
    6 that question and ask you very simply, explain
    7 exactly how you worked with Reverend Wise on
    8 writing the book.
    9 A. Well, he would sit, and we would
    10 talk. I had some things that I had written, and
    11 sometimes he would ask questions about things.
    12 It was kind of a back and forth. Sometimes he
    13 would take something I had written and edit, and
    14 then would -- I mean, it was kind of an evolving
    15 process.
    16 Q. Did he use a tape recorder to tape
    17 any of the things you were saying?
    18 A. I believe so, yes.
    19 Q. Did you give him written notes to
    20 look at?
    21 A. I can't remember exactly. I don't --
    22 Q. Did you prepare notes for the book,
    23 written notes?
    24 A. Yes. Sometimes -- I mean, I had
    25 some things I had written and some things we

    21
    1 just talked about.
    2 Q. Did you keep copies of your notes?
    3 A. No, I did not.
    4 Q. Do you know what happened to your
    5 notes?
    6 A. They were thrown away as I finished
    7 with that part of the writing.
    8 Q. You threw them away?
    9 A. Yes.
    10 Q. Were you shown a copy of what we
    11 would call the rough draft of the book before it
    12 was sent to the publisher?
    13 A. There were many drafts, yes, that we
    14 would keep reviewing.
    15 Q. Who would prepare the drafts?
    16 A. A typist, I think, or the editor,
    17 perhaps. She kept a main manuscript going.
    18 Q. A main file?
    19 A. I am not sure how she did it, but
    20 she would keep it.
    21 Q. Were you given an opportunity to
    22 review the final manuscript before it was sent to
    23 the publisher?
    24 A. I believe so. I believe so.
    25 Q. Do you remember reviewing?

    22
    1 A. Not specifically. I mean, there were
    2 so many iterations, I can't remember exactly
    3 which.
    4 Q. When was the first time you had an
    5 opportunity to read the book from beginning to
    6 end as it was published?
    7 MR. WOOD: After it was published?
    8 MR. HOFFMAN: In the form in which
    9 it was published.
    10 MR. WOOD: Like the galleys?
    11 MR. HOFFMAN: It could have been a
    12 galley. I don't know at what point --
    13 THE WITNESS: You mean the hardback
    14 book?
    15 Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) The hardback book,
    16 yes.
    17 A. Probably when it was completely
    18 published in March of 2000.
    19 Q. Did you see anything that looked like
    20 what they call galleys?
    21 A. I don't think I saw galleys.
    22 Q. So the first time you actually were
    23 able to read the book, then, is when it appeared
    24 in hard cover in the actual bound, hard-covered
    25 issue?

    23
    1 A. Well, I read the manuscript. I don't
    2 know if you call that the book.
     
  19. Vic

    Vic Active Member

    dancing as fast as she can

    As usual, she tries to appear mildly clueless, yet helpful. She gives herself away, time after time. Intellegent people are rarely clueless, especially when it comes to something SO major, so important, as her daughter's death.

    Can't remember the name of the ghost writer? Oh, fiddle-de-de, and he was so handsome and all... oh, I remember. Robert? Reverand Robert Wise?

    Only a stupid person would have trouble with that question, you know, the people too dull to remember their own phone number. Then later she uses the word, (correctly) iterations.

    it·er·a·tion (t-rshn)
    n.
    The act or an instance of iterating; repetition.
    Mathematics. A computational procedure in which a cycle of operations is repeated, often to approximate the desired result more closely.
    Computer Science.
    The process of repeating a set of instructions a specified number of times or until a specific result is achieved.
    One cycle of a set of instructions to be repeated: After ten iterations, the program exited the loop.


    Pretty soon she's gonna be too smart for her own good.
     
  20. Nandee

    Nandee FFJ Senior Member

    Vic

    Oh kind sir, I don't know nothin about birthin no book.....

    I'm getting the vapors.... could we stop for a mint julep??

    It's kept her out of jail so far!!
     
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