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Thread: Writing DOI

  1. #13
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    Default Another Ramsey Lie

    To say they did not own a computer is to say the general public is too dumb to read search warrants! Of course they owned one, and a John Ramsey was found in Boulder to have a Compuserve account, and Compuserve is an ISP, and they had a modem, so it is probable they also had an internet account.
    ~~~~~~~
    On December 28, 1996 Your Affiant saw a computer, monitor, mouse, printer, and removable computer
    storage media. Your Affiant saw this equipment in the play room are on the second floor of the Ramsey
    residence at 755 15th Street, Boulder Colorado. Your Affiant knows that Officer Yamaguchi of the Boulder
    Police Department was helping the search of the Ramsey residence. Officer Yamaguchi told Your Affiant
    that he saw a modem near the computer that was in the play room area of the residence. Officer
    Yamaguchi told Your Affiant that he saw a manual on Compuserve and Compuserve discs located in the
    office of the Ramsey residence. Officer Yamaguchi told Your Affiant that he has several years experience
    in the operation of computers and that he has five years experience as a consultant in the use of
    computers, software, and the Internet. He further states that, using his personal computer, he found that a
    John Ramsey in Boulder, Colorado was a subscriber to Compuserve. Officer Yamaguchi told Your Affiant
    that Compuserve is a company that provides access to the Internet, and that the Internet can be used to
    view text and images of child pornography. Officer Yamaguchi stated to Your Affiant that the text or
    images of child pornography can be collected and saved on the hard drives of computers and on removable
    storage media. He stated to Your Affiant that computers can make electronic records of Internet sites that
    were recently visited on that computer. With this information, Officer Yamaguchi told Your Affiant that an
    investigator can determine if the computer was used to view text or images involving child pornography.
    On December 28, 1996 Your Affiant saw a compact video camera, compact video tapes, and standard
    size video tapes inside the Ramsey residence at 755 15th Street Boulder, Colorado. You Affiant
    personally knows that Detective Linda Arndt's duties include the investigation of child sexual assaults and
    molestations, and that she has attended classes on the investigation of child sexual assault cases.
    Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that, based on her training and experience, some child molesters keep
    collections of photographs, computer images, or videos of children. She further stated that they can
    conceal such videos within commercially labeled video tapes. She further stated to Your Affiant that these
    images may or may not be obviously pornographic in nature. Detective Arndt also told Your Affiant that
    child molesters have been known to video tape the murder of their victim(s).
    Your Affiant is aware that Detective Steve Ainsworth of the Boulder County Sheriff's Department was
    assisting in the processing of the Ramsey residence on December 28, 1996. Detective Ainsworth told
    Your Affiant that the video inside the compact video camera depicted children washing fruit in the kitchen.
    He said this tape was dated August of 1996. He also told Your Affiant that there as another compact video
    tape located next to the compact video camera that is in the kitchen. Officer Yamaguchi told Your Affiant
    that he saw a standard size Betamax video camera. Betamax video tapes, and Betamax player/recorder
    in the main floor study of the residence.
    Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she witnessed the autopsy of JonBenet Ramsey which was
    conducted by Dr. John Meyer on December 27, 1996. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she observed
    Dr. Meyer examine the vaginal area of the victim and heard him state that the victim had received an injury
    constant with digital penetration of her vagina. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer told her that
    it was his opinion that the victim had been subjected to sexual contact. For further details on the autopsy
    see the attached document entitled Addendum To Search Warrant.
    Your Affiant believes that probable cause exists to amend the previously issued two search warrants for
    the premises of 755 15th Street City and County of Boulder, Colorado, as described on the face of the two
    previously issued search warrants for the premises (which are attached hereto and incorporated by
    reference) to search for and seize the following items of evidence which may be of material aid in the
    investigation of the facts surrounding the death of JonBenet Ramsey, to wit:
    All locks or locking mechanisms on exterior entrances and exits, including windows.
    Any exterior surfaces with pry-marks or tool marks which are on or near any entrances to the house.
    All computers, monitors, input/output devices, and removable storage media.
    All video tapes and photographs depicting children.
    James R. Byfield
    Affiant
    Sworn to and subscribed in my presence this 29th of December 1996, in Boulder, Colorado.
    Diane R. MacDonald
    Judge
    ~~~~~~~~~
    Tricia/Dun I hope this doesn't blow the margins, but if it does, you can personally flog me, okay? I figure flogging is better than placing information on the thread without a source...LOL

  2. #14
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    Default Hey

    Moab you can blow out our margines anytime right Dun?

    Perfect Moab. Thanks for digging up the hard proof the Ramsey's own a computer.

    Now where exactly is the quote when John or Patsy say they don't have a computer?

    I remember it but I don't have a clue where I read it.

    Thanks
    Tricia

  3. #15

    Default devil in the details

    Perhaps to be fair, somebody should date the Ramsey comments about not owning a computer and compare that to the date of writing DOI before seeing too much in this. As I recall, that comment was made long before DOI got going, and certainly long before the break-in.

    The computers that they certainly did own, but that the police seized under warrant, should not be considered "their" computers any longer, unless they were returned to them (doubtful).

    Personally, I don't find anything strange about having written a book on a computer, using the assistance of handwritten notes. That's often the way I write -- even when writing posts for the forums. Nor do I find anything odd about thowing away those notes after the book is complete. Afterall, even if there is an ongoing investigation, the content of the notes probably would be mostly, if not entirely, presented in the book. No need for the notes when you have the book.

  4. #16
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    Default fly

    What's odd is that Patsy danced around the question... Why not just say.... I put my thoughts on my computer.... printed it out, then when done, threw the pages away???

    I'm looking for the no computer no tv quote. I think it was around the Walters interview.....

    I'll post it when/if I find it :-)
    When you defend the indefensible, you make the Ramsey's look even more guilty.....

  5. #17

    Default where's the dancing?

    Perhaps PR danced around the question at some other point in the deposition prior to the reprinted segment, but I sure don't see dancing in that segment. Maybe I'm missing something.

  6. #18
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    Default here ya go....

    20 Q. Could you explain, to the best that
    21 you remember, the process by which you wrote the
    22 book? I mean, did you sit down with a pen and
    23 pad or did you use a Dictaphone? How was the
    24 book written, given that both you and John are
    25 listed as authors, the actual writing process?

    18
    1 MR. WOOD: I object to the form of
    2 the question.
    3 You may answer the question, if you
    4 understand it.
    5 The problem is you kind of sometimes
    6 ask two or three questions within one.
    7 MR. HOFFMAN: I understand.
    8 MR. WOOD: I want her to be clear on
    9 exactly what the question is. I think, correct
    10 me if I am wrong, I think he is trying to find
    11 out whether you actually physically typed on a
    12 computer, dictated into a tape, made handwritten
    13 notes.
    14 Is that what you are asking?
    15 MR. HOFFMAN: Exactly.
    16 MR. WOOD: Do you understand that?
    17 THE WITNESS: I think we did some of
    18 all of that.
    19 Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) Did you and Mr.
    20 Ramsey sit physically together and write the book,
    21 or did you write it in separate, you know,
    22 environments, meaning you are in one part of the
    23 house and he is in another part? Did you
    24 compose it that way?
    25 A. Some of all of that. We were living

    19
    1 in an apartment at the time, so it was a small
    2 living space. So we were --
    3 Q. At some point, I believe there was --
    4 well, I will withdraw that question.
    5 Did anyone else assist you in writing
    6 the book?
    7 A. We had an editor that was provided by
    8 the publisher and a ghost writer, if you want to
    9 call it that, who helped us with some of the
    10 structure and organization.
    11 Q. Who is the ghost writer?
    12 A. I think his name is in the book
    13 there somewhere. Let's see. Oh, Robert Wise,
    14 Reverend Robert Wise.
    15 Q. When you looked at the final
    16 manuscript of the book, was it very different
    17 from what you had originally prepared and given
    18 to Mr. Wise, or Reverend Wise?
    19 MR. WOOD: Are you assuming they
    20 prepared a manuscript and gave to it Wise and
    21 then got back a manuscript?
    22 MR. HOFFMAN: At some point, I am
    23 assuming that their work product was turned into
    24 a manuscript of some sort and that Mr. Wise
    25 worked with it in some way.

    20
    1 MR. WOOD: Well, I am not sure that
    2 is right. It may have been given to him
    3 piecemeal, Darnay. I think you need to figure
    4 that out first.
    5 Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) I will withdraw
    6 that question and ask you very simply, explain
    7 exactly how you worked with Reverend Wise on
    8 writing the book.
    9 A. Well, he would sit, and we would
    10 talk. I had some things that I had written, and
    11 sometimes he would ask questions about things.
    12 It was kind of a back and forth. Sometimes he
    13 would take something I had written and edit, and
    14 then would -- I mean, it was kind of an evolving
    15 process.
    16 Q. Did he use a tape recorder to tape
    17 any of the things you were saying?
    18 A. I believe so, yes.
    19 Q. Did you give him written notes to
    20 look at?
    21 A. I can't remember exactly. I don't --
    22 Q. Did you prepare notes for the book,
    23 written notes?
    24 A. Yes. Sometimes -- I mean, I had
    25 some things I had written and some things we

    21
    1 just talked about.
    2 Q. Did you keep copies of your notes?
    3 A. No, I did not.
    4 Q. Do you know what happened to your
    5 notes?
    6 A. They were thrown away as I finished
    7 with that part of the writing.
    8 Q. You threw them away?
    9 A. Yes.
    10 Q. Were you shown a copy of what we
    11 would call the rough draft of the book before it
    12 was sent to the publisher?
    13 A. There were many drafts, yes, that we
    14 would keep reviewing.
    15 Q. Who would prepare the drafts?
    16 A. A typist, I think, or the editor,
    17 perhaps. She kept a main manuscript going.
    18 Q. A main file?
    19 A. I am not sure how she did it, but
    20 she would keep it.
    21 Q. Were you given an opportunity to
    22 review the final manuscript before it was sent to
    23 the publisher?
    24 A. I believe so. I believe so.
    25 Q. Do you remember reviewing?

    22
    1 A. Not specifically. I mean, there were
    2 so many iterations, I can't remember exactly
    3 which.
    4 Q. When was the first time you had an
    5 opportunity to read the book from beginning to
    6 end as it was published?
    7 MR. WOOD: After it was published?
    8 MR. HOFFMAN: In the form in which
    9 it was published.
    10 MR. WOOD: Like the galleys?
    11 MR. HOFFMAN: It could have been a
    12 galley. I don't know at what point --
    13 THE WITNESS: You mean the hardback
    14 book?
    15 Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) The hardback book,
    16 yes.
    17 A. Probably when it was completely
    18 published in March of 2000.
    19 Q. Did you see anything that looked like
    20 what they call galleys?
    21 A. I don't think I saw galleys.
    22 Q. So the first time you actually were
    23 able to read the book, then, is when it appeared
    24 in hard cover in the actual bound, hard-covered
    25 issue?

    23
    1 A. Well, I read the manuscript. I don't
    2 know if you call that the book.
    When you defend the indefensible, you make the Ramsey's look even more guilty.....

  7. #19
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    Default dancing as fast as she can

    As usual, she tries to appear mildly clueless, yet helpful. She gives herself away, time after time. Intellegent people are rarely clueless, especially when it comes to something SO major, so important, as her daughter's death.

    Can't remember the name of the ghost writer? Oh, fiddle-de-de, and he was so handsome and all... oh, I remember. Robert? Reverand Robert Wise?

    Only a stupid person would have trouble with that question, you know, the people too dull to remember their own phone number. Then later she uses the word, (correctly) iterations.

    it·er·a·tion (t-rshn)
    n.
    The act or an instance of iterating; repetition.
    Mathematics. A computational procedure in which a cycle of operations is repeated, often to approximate the desired result more closely.
    Computer Science.
    The process of repeating a set of instructions a specified number of times or until a specific result is achieved.
    One cycle of a set of instructions to be repeated: After ten iterations, the program exited the loop.


    Pretty soon she's gonna be too smart for her own good.

  8. #20
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    Default Vic

    Oh kind sir, I don't know nothin about birthin no book.....

    I'm getting the vapors.... could we stop for a mint julep??

    It's kept her out of jail so far!!
    When you defend the indefensible, you make the Ramsey's look even more guilty.....

  9. #21
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    Talking

    Nandee, Vic,

    Fly once again you bring reason a forum.

    You are right fly we need to look at when John said he did not own a computer and the comments he has made since. Very easy for someone do go buy a computer. John Ramsey certainly does not need to tell us about it either.

    However.....

    Why is it everything the Ramseys say or do is like tap dancing? They dance around issues, they can't remember, they don't know, they don't read reports, and on and onandonandonandon..

    That's why we all pick apart what they say...even if there is a logical change in what they are saying like " I don't own a computer" because EVERTHING they say or do reeks of being evasive .

    The Ramseys make it easy for those following the case to continually find discrepancies

    Tricia

  10. #22
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    Default Tap Dancing...

    Maybe a timeline wouldn’t hurt of what was said when. I do know at some point in time, they said they didn’t have a computer, and I thought that was right after JBR’s death, yet one was taken from the 15th Street house, and again John says another one was stolen in GA during the break-in.

    I agree that having written notes and using a computer at the same time is not uncommon, I do it all the time.

    I also know at one time they said they didn’t have a television, yet one was seen in the background of a pic placed on the forums I think in their Paces Ferry Road home, and in DOI they talked of having their cable disconnected.

    I think it may have been Nedra, at one time when talking about what a good mother Patsy was, who said Patsy was always doing little things on the computer for the kids.

    I think the comments made during the depositions were positioned by the Ramseys to 1) answer the question partially, and 2) be ambiguous enough to wiggle out of…JMO…there were so many yes/no questions asked by Darnay, and so few yes/no answers given.

    16 Q. Did he use a tape recorder to tape
    17 any of the things you were saying?
    18 A. I believe so, yes.

    19 Q. Did you give him written notes to
    20 look at?
    21 A. I can't remember exactly. I don't --
    22 Q. Did you prepare notes for the book,
    23 written notes?
    24 A. Yes. Sometimes -- I mean, I had
    25 some things I had written and some things we
    21 I just talked about.

    10 talk. I had some things that I had written, and
    11 sometimes he would ask questions about things.
    12 It was kind of a back and forth. Sometimes he
    13 would take something I had written and edit, and
    14 then would -- I mean, it was kind of an evolving
    15 process.

    On lines 12 and 13 she knew she gave him notes to edit or something, and on lines 19, 20 and 21 she couldn’t remember if she ever gave him anything she had written.

    Tap tap tap...dance dance dance...shake your bootie!

  11. #23

    Default Search warrant materials seized

    I would bet that the computers seized on the search warrants were returned to the Ramsey after a forensic techie copied their hard drives and files. I remember thinking the filing system Patsy used was bizarre -- I believe she used one of the kids' computers for her recipes. I would have expected that info to be on the one in the den, presumably John's. But this was 1996 and even in a computer hip household things weren't as advanced as they are now. But computers were a part of their lives -- there was that report that Burke had been computing since the age of 18 months.

    Anyway I imagine the computers were returned long ago, as presumably were the cars, video tapes and other materials that were not key to the scientific testing.

    I'd also like to know if both Ramseys had cell phones at the time.

  12. #24
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    Default John Did

    We know John had a cell phone that was used in December, even though the phone records showed no activity:

    2 Q. You say that he asked you to stay in
    3 the sunroom. Did you remain in the sunroom the
    4 whole morning?
    5 A. We did not. Other people arrived.
    6 The police arrived. They asked to use our cell
    7 phones because theirs were dead. They asked us
    8 to do a number of things that required us to
    9 leave that room.
    When you defend the indefensible, you make the Ramsey's look even more guilty.....



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