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  1. #1
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    Default Ramsey Cell Phone Records

    Jameson had posted from PMPT and JR's deposition because she was ever-attempting to stop reasonable discussion on a subject where we are not sure of the answer. As always, hir wrote it in such a manner as to allude to knowledge only she had, and I must not! The quotes and comments are as follows:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    from PMPT
    "It was 1:12 P.M. when Detective Ardnt grabbed a cell phone in the kitchen, and returning to the living room, dialed 911. The operator dispatched the fire department and notified the police communications...." p. 20, paperback edition.

    A question
    "It is true that the BPD phones were not charged so they used the Ramsey phones"

    HIR RESPONSE
    " from John Ramsey's deposition:
    A. ... The police arrived. They asked to use our cell phones because theirs were dead. They asked us to do a number of things that required us to leave that room. (the sunroom)
    Why would John lie about THAT?"

    QUOTE FROM Steve Thomas as written by HIR
    "Thomas wrote, "December, however, the only period we were allowed to see, was empty. No calls at all. I asked if someone could have removed billing records from the computer? 'No way,' the AirTouch source told me. 'All these months preceding December are busy, and not one call was logged for that entire month?'"

    HIR ambiguous/pedantic statement:
    " I have been told a bill was given to the BPD, there were calls on it - - it was like every other month."
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Okay, so for some reason this ticked me off, so I replied to HIR:

    Rainbow File
    "I personally don’t think there is a conspiracy of any kind, however, it seems to me most of what I have read says there was no cell phone usage in December for the Ramsey cell phone(s), and since that seems strange since all the previous months had normal + usage, I kind of took that hinky bit of info and put it into my rainbow file—the file which has questions I don’t have answers for—at least yet.

    Now if I take that information and couple it with the Ramseys saying the BPD used their cell phones, I would expect to find a record somewhere indicating THAT was true—and that could be matched with the BPD phone records—or at least verified as true by those records.

    So, now I am thinking ST has seen the records within the first 6 months of the investigation, and he says no usage was recorded during the times for which they requested the records—Hmmmm.
    Now I read today in DOI, that the Ramseys didn’t even know Jameson’s true identity until the fall of 1997, and didn’t meet her in person until approx 6 months later---so she was 18 months out of the loop, so to speak, not an investigator, not a member of the DA’s office, nor a member of the BPD, or any Ramsey-paid investigator---so I am guessing Jameson and ST did not see the exact same things.

    And then today Jameson says—“I have been told a bill was given to the BPD, there were calls on it - - it was like every other month.”

    I will become a believer when Jameson says she has seen a copy of the Ramsey cell phone bills for the entire months of September-December 1996, and posts them on the forum for all to see. Until that time, the statement she did make was so ambiguous I cannot tell if she is referring to the Ramsey’s cell phone bill or mine—carefully not naming any Service Company, or the dates of the bill, or the names on the bill, or what other bill was used for comparison.

    Not that it matters what I think, but I think that is JELLO by her own standards, and she should not have written it in blue since BLUE=FACT—she should have written it in brown, because BROWN=Jameson’s opinion! (DOI, hardback, Page 306, lines 5-29.)

    Until then, I think the Ramsey cell phone records, missing or otherwise, will go back into my rainbow file along with this post!"
    ~~~~~~~~~~

    The ambiguous comment she wrote was in blue. The Blue/Brown comment I made in return was how John described Jameson's color-coded system for her timeline and Web page in DOI…Blue was for Fact, Black was for Newspaper or print media, and Brown was for Jameson's opinion.
    ~~~~~~~~
    In a nutshell, Jameson commented, I commented, Candy commented, Jameson wanted to know what forum I was from, LP commented, I commented on her BS again, Jameson welcomed me to the P Forum --yuck!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    So, what IS the truth about the Cell Phone Bills? Have they been made available? Were there any calls listed on them? Did the call volume match the previous months? Do you believe the BPD used the Ramsey's cell phones? Don't make me put this back in my Rainbow File, ok?

  2. #2
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    Default Hey

    Moab great catch.

    All I can go by is Thomas' book and he states there were no phone calls in the month of Dec.

    Moab I am with you. This thing is soooo hinky just like everything else.

    Jammy says maybe the Ramseys lost a phone. That's not the point. Who cares if they lost the phone.The phone records would still be at the cell phone company..hello

    Also was Thomas allowed to look into other cell phone companies to see if the Ramsey's had an account?

    How about those cell phones you use to be able to by at 7-Eleven. The ones with the pre-paid time. I don't even know if you could check the records on something like that.

    Do I think there is a great conspiracy? No. Do I think John Ramsey might be able to have someone at a cell phone company manipulate his bill..Absolutely. He had plenty of time to do before he was so kind as to agree to let the BPD look at the records

    Nothing in this case is easy. Even the simplist things, like a cell phone bill, raises peoples eyebrows.

    Tricia

  3. #3

    Default LOL! Moab

    I think Steve is a more credible source when it comes to the R case...Hopefully though the BPD has been able to locate the correct information regarding the cell calls made in Dec 96 since ST left....

    It would be interesting to find out if any payment was made to the cell phone company for Dec 96...you know..if there were any charges other then a service charge...I really don't know how that works...BUT with the cell phone I had...after I exceeded the limit of my package deal...I would have to pay for the extra minutes used..but that was an overseas company....How does it work in the US?

  4. #4
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    Default Tricia/Zan

    I agree Tricia…even the quote she had from PMPT was hinky the way she was trying to use it…

    from PMPT
    "It was 1:12 P.M. when Detective Ardnt grabbed a cell phone in the kitchen, and returning to the living room, dialed 911. The operator dispatched the fire department and notified the police communications...." p. 20, paperback edition.

    This just says Arndt picked up a cell phone…doesn't say she picked up a Ramsey cell phone.

    It is all this kind of crap that drives me nuts…the ambiguity just continues to muddy the waters and spin spin spin…list the facts and only the facts without editorializing and then see what you have…seems like the quickest way to get at the truth!

    ZAN--My cell plan gives me a reduced per minute charge as long as I stay within the plan. When I go over that, the charge per minute is much more, and that payment is over and above the regular monthly rate, so it sounds pretty much like your plan.

    Of course I feel ST is a credible source…he gives the facts and then stops! He doesn't go on editorializing for another page or two and blatantly mixing opinions into the scenario to purposefully muddy the waters.

    Wish I had a dime for every time Jameson has said "Let the chips fall where they may", I could retire, and I wouldn't have the visual in my head of Jams out rearranging the pasture!

  5. #5

    Default Oh My Goodness

    to quote little Shirley Temple.

    Moab, re ""

    HIR RESPONSE
    " from John Ramsey's deposition:
    A. ... The police arrived. They asked to use >>>>>>>?>our cell phones<<<<<
    When did I miss this before, John saying, "They asked to use 'our cell phones'"

    The verbage attributed to Arndt she grabbed 'a' cell phone !, so there must have been more than one. Good question on whether Ramseys had other cell phone accounts. That might account for missing calls on the normal or expected account.

    So perhaps somewhere in outer la la land are the missing phone records for one of those 'our cell phones'. Wonder if ***-umptions were made that all the phones were from the same account and NOT checked, and or if when the Ramseys left the 'special phone went with them.

    Because if in fact the PD used 'one of the Ramsey phones' there should have been a charge or so on the bill for the PD calls that were made.

    Are Moab and the rest of us the first ones to put this puzzle piece into place for the BIG picture? Now five years later is it too late to dig for that bit of specific info?

  6. #6
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    Default I wonder

    since the Ramsey cell phone records were missing did the BPD subpeona(sp?) the phone records of any of the Ramsey friends. Does the phone co. have a record of all incoming and outgoing calls from/to a certain number.

  7. #7

    Default I just pulled my cell phone bills

    and mine list every single call I made, whether it was part of my free minutes or not. I have Cingular. I don't normally see the cell phone bills as my husband does all the bill paying in our household. The bills come in and I put them unopened on his desk to be processed. But I happen to have all of last year's cell phone bills on my desk because I am organizing for tax time, and a cell phone is business deduction for my husband.

    Point being, most likely if anyone used the Rams cell phone, the call would be listed on the bill.

    Something hinky is going on with the cell phone bill for Dec 1996 and I have to wonder why.

    And I would not take Susan Bennett's word for anything unless I was shown PROOF, like an actual copy of the bill.

    And I would not take John Ramsey's word for anything either but it interesting to note that between the two depos, his and Pats, his had the most interesting information.

  8. #8
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    Default yup

    our cell phones show every call that was made and every call that was received.

    If you lose a copy they will gladly fax you a copy or send one out.

    I know they do this even with the free minutes so you know that you truly used them up.

  9. #9
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    Default Originally from WS

    Well, the information on the phone bills/calls is not new, since Steve Thomas included comments in his book, and Jams spinning is not new. From Steve’s book, we either believed what he said about there being no calls on the bills he saw, or we didn’t.

    The particular quotes Jams used, she stole off a post at WS and gave no credit to WS or the poster...and the subject at WS is not terribly new either, many at WS have discussed the discrepancies.

    But until now, no one had ever alluded to the fact that there was a bill showing a normal amount of calls which was given to the BPD, and that is all it probably is coming from the swamp …illusion and spin.

  10. #10

    Default Well

    IF BlueCrabs theory is correct and there was another young boy in the house that night that ran home to his parents, he could have had a cell phone with him, that he forgot and it could have been on the kitchen counter with the 'rest of the cell phones', nutty idea, or did the Stines then have charges on their cell phone bill for ALL the calls the Ramseys made the morning of the 26th to all the friends.

    Sometime that morning the Ramseys must have noticed the extra phone or put it on the counter with all the other phones, er, I am getting tangled up with thoughts here. Can anyone else make some sense, be my guest.

    Maybe this would be how their STRONG friendship with the Stines became even more close, am I nuts?

  11. #11
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    Default Camper

    That may take a minute to digest Camper...but good luck to you and hubby tomorrow with his surgery!

  12. #12

    Default Moab

    Thanks, the support here is much needed, helps me a bunch. He is tucked in now, and will get up earlier tomorrow. Two daughters helping me out tomorrow. One is going with us, another is coming for afternoon babysitting of the both of us!!!

    ======<>< My thoughts might be farfetched, time will tell I hope. But I just betcha there was some phone finageling sp? going on, to cover stuff.



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