A bit more from the public Krebs file part 2

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Tricia, Jul 16, 2003.

  1. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    From the Krebs file.

    Let's go back in time a bit shall we?

    From Linda Wickman Ch. Investigator of the BDA's office.

    A meeting took place on 2/16/00.

    Attending the meeting were:
    Barry Hartman
    Alex Hunter
    Linda Wickman
    Lee Hill
    Steven Singular.

    The meeting wraps up with an interesting question.

    Barry Hartman asked Lee Hill and Stephen Singular if John Ramsey knew Fleet White was involved in the murder of JonBenet, why would he protect him?
    Lee Hill replied, because John Ramsey shares culpability.

    This is me talking..So we have Krebs saying Ramsey is part of this, we now have from the official file, Lee Hill saying John Ramsey is a part of this whole sex ring, yet the pressure, the accusations, have been heaped on Fleet White.

    Now more from Linda Wickman's notes

    On 02/18/00, about 4:00 pm. I received a phone call from Lee Hill. He told me that he was trying to move this matter along. He wanted to share the recorded statement and video of the photos and other documents. There has been movement in California at the sheriff's office from one specialized unit to another, although it is not complete yet.

    The witness is warming to the idea of meeting with Colorado authorities directly. Lee has learned from the therapist that there will be a couple of things on the witness' local record that will show up. The local record notes the witness as "5150" or "crazy" when she attempted to file reports in the past at a couple of law enforcement agencies. According to the therapist, the witness is not delusional or schizophrenic. There are explanations for each of these incidences. The witness was under the influence of medications in one incident. Lee will explain further.

    Mr. Hill expects to have clearance before the end of the day from the witness and therapist to go forward further. He is still waiting on the protection issue.

    This information was relayed to Mr. Hunter the same day.

    Me again. Let's look at the dates here shall we? On 2/18/00 Hunter was informed that Krebs was a 5150 or Crazy according to LE in California. The Boulder Daily Camera article, which has disappeared, appeared on Feb 25th 2000.
    Hunter knew Nancy was "crazy" on 2/18/00 yet he says something to the effect she is credible on 2/25/00. Sorry I have no idea if that is the exact quote since the article is nowhere to be found.

    If anyone has the Boulder Daily Camera article about Mystery Woman on 2/25/00 I would appreciate it if you would send it to me.
    Tricia@forumsforjustice.org


    __________________
     
  2. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Really think about this. Hunter was aware of Nancy's "5150" status with LE in California. Yet he went forward.

    It's there in black and white.

    Don't you just love the excuses for Nancy's false accusations?

    Medication..Yeah I know when I had to take medication the first thing I did was file a false claim against LE. Happens all the time. Of course that was just one of the incidents.

    Also let's not forget that Lee Hill was going to "explain further."

    My God. Nancy files false claims against LE and everyone should just understand because there were reasons she did this.

    Oh she wasn't mentally ill or Schizoid...No...it's something else.

    Let's just forget about those two little stories and believe her on this one...

    I can't believe this. I just can't believe this happened.
     
  3. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Maybe we've been

    aiming our complaints toward the wrong official, Tricia. There is ample proof that the Boulder hierarchy has been and is corrupt.

    Borrowing from a worthy post Skydog made on July 13, 2001,


    "The entire matter will be covered as part of the federal government's investigation into corruption and obstruction of justice charges against the Boulder District Attorney's office over their handling of the Ramsey investigation.

    The Boulder DA gave information about the MW hoax to local reporters and even asked one or more of them to look into Fleet White's background to dig up dirt. If THAT is not corruption, then there is no such thing.

    When is the federal investigation starting?

    As soon as you get mad and demand that they do something. Call, write, email, jump up and down, get red in the face, make demands, fall on the ground and kick your legs, hold your breath until they promise to do the right thing..."

    The governor of Colorado has already proven he won't do anything. Maybe it's time to go to an organization that has no loyalties to anyone in Boulder and takes its charge seriously.
     
  4. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks to Moab for finding this.

    Ladies and gentlemen the Feb. 25th 2000 article discussing the credible Ms. Krebs.

    DA pursues new Ramsey lead

    Hunter asks police to investigate woman's story of sex abuse

    By Barrie Hartman

    Camera Staff Writer

    [c] 2000 Boulder Publishing Inc.

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    District Attorney Alex Hunter has turned over new information to Boulder police and the FBI that he says could provide a major breakthrough in solving the 3-year-old JonBenét Ramsey murder case.

    The information is from testimony and documents provided voluntarily by a 37-year-old California woman who was brought forward by Boulder attorney Lee Hill. The woman said she has suffered a lifetime of sexual and physical abuse, beginning at age 3. Her story, if true, could mean the Ramsey case is tangled in sexual abuse and involves more people than originally thought.

    Hunter said he finds the woman to be "very believable." Boulder police detectives, however, aren't so sure.

    "Even if only 15 percent of what she says is true," Hunter said, "this case warrants investigation. And if Boulder cops don't want to do it, I will take the case to the U.S. Attorney."

    Police Chief Mark Beckner Beckner said Thursday, "Though our detectives did not find her to be credible, we are taking what she said seriously.

    "I'm interested in finding the truth no matter where it leads us."

    Beckner said the first thing his detectives will do is perform a thorough background check of the woman and meet with her therapist of 10 years in an attempt to corroborate her story.

    Hill, who is a former San Diego County deputy district attorney and former special assistant U.S. attorney and is experienced in investigative work, said, "She is among the most credible witnesses I have ever interviewed." He is representing the woman in her decision to give information to authorities.

    The woman has described to police years of sexual and physical abuse in California homes at the hands of adults who stayed at holiday and other parties after other guests had left for the evening. Then, she said, another "party," one of sexual abuse for the gratification of a select group of adults, would begin.

    In talking to detectives, the woman draws parallels between sexual techniques used at these sessions and the physical evidence of garroting that investigators found on the body of JonBenét Ramsey. The woman told detectives she believes JonBenét was killed accidentally when an asphyxiation technique used to stimulate an orgasmic response during a child sex and porno "party" went too far.

    The woman told police she knows firsthand about asphyxiation to produce a sexual response because it had been done to her when she was a child. The woman said in her experience little girls were dressed provocatively and trained to say provocative things, such as, "It's a pleasure to please you."

    She told police that when girls did not perform as expected, they were struck on the head. That was because their hair covered the wound. A big night for such "parties" was Christmas night, she said. Over the years, she said, many parties were held then because a large number of cars around a house did not arouse suspicion in the neighborhood and the children had a full week to heal from their wounds before returning to school.

    JonBenét Ramsey's death occurred overnight Christmas 1996. The autopsy report concluded she suffered a blow on the head and was strangled.

    The woman said she knows the Ramseys through the Fleet White family. She said the godfather to her mother is Fleet White Sr., 86, of California. Fleet White Jr. of Boulder and John Ramsey were close friends until the death of JonBenét.

    White Jr. was with John Ramsey when JonBenét's body was found in the basement of the Ramsey's Boulder home. White Jr. has since been crusading for Hunter's ouster from this case for refusing to prosecute the Ramseys.

    Ramsey's attorney, Bryan Morgan, declined comment. Fleet White could not be reached Thursday.

    Police cleared White as a suspect in April 1997.

    Attorney Hill said the woman came forward because she was fearful for her life. She came to believe that people involved in child sexual abuse in California were becoming suspicious that she might try to talk to authorities. Hill said her main reason, however, was to try to save "other innocent victims who can't speak for themselves" from further sexual abuse.

    The woman and her therapist of 10 years, Mary Bienkowski, saw Hill being interviewed on Fox television about a deposition he had taken of John Ramsey in a libel suit against a supermarket tabloid. They decided to contact him. The Camera's efforts to reach Bienkowski have been unsuccessful.

    Hill, struck by what he heard, traveled to San Luis Obispo near Los Angeles on Feb. 11. He spent five hours interviewing both the woman and her therapist, and he videotaped supporting documents, which included personal notes, cards and family photographs that the woman says are from the Whites, both senior and junior.

    Hill recounted details of the interview to Hunter in a meeting Feb. 16. With him was Stephen Singular, a Denver author who has pursued the Ramsey case for three years and is convinced the killing is linked to child sexual abuse. Both men expressed to Hunter intense frustration about the reluctance of police to consider evidence that deviated from their theories.

    The woman called Hill again Saturday, and he arranged for her to fly to Denver. He picked her up at 12:30 a.m. Sunday at Denver International Airport and found safe housing for her.

    Hunter immediately tried to arrange for detectives to interview the woman. Two detectives interviewed her at 3 p.m. Tuesday for nearly five hours.

    It was during that interview that Hill learned Boulder police had received a missing person's report on the woman. A relative of the woman filed the report with San Luis Obispo authorities, who called Boulder police. Boulder police, Hill said, responded that she was in Boulder and would be interviewed by detectives at 3 p.m. Tuesday. They also told San Luis Obispo police she was with Lee Hill.

    "I couldn't believe it," Hill said. "We had told police her life was in danger; then they tell everyone where she is and what she is doing."

    Police Chief Beckner said he thought it was his department's responsibility to respond to the missing person's report. Hill says police should have asked the witness whether she wanted them to respond.

    The Ramsey case has been quiet for the last several months, following a 13-month grand jury investigation that prosecutors said did not find enough evidence to bring an indictment in the case.

    Contact Barrie Hartman at (303) 473-1390 or hartmanb@thedailycamera.com.

    Editor's note

    Barrie Hartman is editor of the Daily Camera's opinion pages, and his writing does not normally appear in the news columns. In this case, the main sources of the above story stepped forward to give their information to Hartman in lengthy interviews.

    The woman quoted in the article, whom Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter believes possesses credible information regarding the JonBenét Ramsey case, has been interviewed by the Camera and by the Boulder Police Department. She decided to tell her story after viewing a recent newscast about John Ramsey, father of JonBenét, based on statements he made in a legal deposition on Oct. 20, 1998. The Daily Camera disclosed the content of that deposition in a news article published Feb. 6, 2000.

    She and her therapist then contacted Boulder attorney Lee Hill, who put her in touch with Hartman and the district attorney.

    February 25, 2000
     
  5. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Great job getting the chronology on all this down--scary, isn't it? It all fits the DA's MO of attacking the police department, sometimes more subtley than others, while desperately trying to look anywhere else but the Ramsey's direction. Disgusting.

    I love the part about "If only 15% of what she says is true..."

    Well Alex, that means 85% of what comes out her mouth is lies, which makes her a pathologically liar in any sane person's mind.

    Idiot.
     
  6. LurkerXIV

    LurkerXIV Moderator

    Lee Hill

    Hill must rue the day he ever met Suma and allowed her to drag him into this quagmire.

    Poor old Lee...he has infinitely bad judgment when it comes to women.
     
  7. Shadow

    Shadow FFJ Senior Content Moderator

    "Even if only 15 percent of what she says is true," Hunter said, "this case warrants investigation. And if Boulder cops don't want to do it, I will take the case to the U.S. Attorney."

    I'm not sure Alex Hunter could even get into the U.S. Attorney's office. By the time the GJ ended, Alex Hunter and the rest of the DA's office had no credibility with the FBI, and, one would assume the Justice Dept. My FBI source back then was telling me that some agents wanted the DA's office investigated for obstruction of justice (I believe this was in ST's book).

    I will always believe there was collusion between people in the BDA's office and the Haddon firm. I remember being told by my FBI source and posting at JW before the GJ ended that the FBI wanted the Ramseys called before the GJ, but Hunter refused. Several people (Ginja was one) gave me hell when I posted this - saying the FBI would never suggest this because they knew that the Ramseys would then get access to all the evidence. I was told, and posted, that the FBI suggested the Ramseys be called because they were sure the Ramsey lawyers already had most of the evidence. I was told and posted that if the Ramseys were not called to testify there would be no indictment. I posted all of this at least a week before the GJ non-decision was announced.

    The bottom line is that Hunter's actions regarding the MW, witness, or Krebs speak loud and clear. And, the FBI's 20 minute investigation of the Kreb's allegations provide a hint of Hunter's credibility with the agency.
     
  8. AK

    AK Member

    Excellent info, Tricia

    Thank you for posting that. I can't imagine anyone fence sitting about this Krebs debaucle now.

    I tried to communicate long ago that this was orchestrated to benefit Hill and Singular, with no consideration for anyone else in their way, and certainly not for the case. Only the breathlessly gullible would take Krebs' lies as reality. Gotta wonder what thrill Mame and Morgan got from seeing this story avalanche -- at least they're finally exposed as the utter frauds we've all known them to be. I especially love how everyone knows their real names and information -- it shows how desperate they are for attention, no matter how embarrassing.

    The Washington Post has a story about Tucker Carlson's upcoming book in which he tells, for the first time, about his own encouter with a deranged troublemaker who accused him of rape. I can't stand Carlson's politics, but I sympathize with his plight on this matter.

    Snippet:

    After Carlson passed a sweat-drenched lie detector test and spent $14,000 in legal fees, a private eye discovered that the accuser had a chronic mental disorder. She had claimed in 2001 that Carlson slipped narcotics into her drink in a Louisville restaurant; he had never been to Louisville. Carlson wanted to sue the woman's lawyer, but realized that would lead to news stories in which "my name would be joined in the same sentence as the word rape."

    -----------

    Idiots like Mame, Morgan and Edie Pratt have always questioned why Fleet never sued Nancy Krebs. Well, there's the answer. I only hope one day they're the recipients of the kind of nightmare they so callously encouraged against the White family.
     
  9. Driver

    Driver FFJ Senior Member

    Shadow, do you think there is any chance at all of a federal investigation in this case? How I wish it would be so, if only for obstruction of justice. Let the chips fall where they may. In fact, I would think the Ramseys would want the FBI involved to get justice for their child. Can anyone fathom why they would not be begging them to help?

    I fear that with all of the Homeland Security business there would be little if any priority for a JonBenet investigation. Isn't that sad, if our homeland can't even be secure for a little child in her own home?
     
  10. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    That's exactly right, Fedora. FW would never want his thing in the press again. What would he gain? Having to explain to every person he meets in the future that he was the target of a group of crazies, and that none of the crap they spewed was true? This story, after the initial news burst, never went anywhere and with damn good reason. 99.999% of America doesn't know who FW is, let alone NK, and I would guess FW wants to keep it that way. From what I understand he's had all the press he ever wanted in this lifetime.
     
  11. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    What's the difference between jameson and mameson?

    The answer is, nothing. They are both vindictive b!tches who try to hide behind a mask of righteousness.



    Mame
    Member since Feb-19-03
    39 posts

    39. "RE: REMyths"
    In response to message #38

    Margoo...
    I just saw your post and couldn't agree more. I never wanted to believe there was a behind the scenes effort to change opinion...I do now. There is evidence from early on in this case that certain people were put here for a reason. That reason, was to pick up information and change and divert opinion along the way. We know who many of the players are...


    Mameson is right about that, of course. It's obvious that mameson and motormouth99 and dumbasastumpmorganism were put on the forums to divert opinion and disrupt the forums. Everyone knows that. But, that's not what mameson is referring to, she is inferring there are others who are doing this on a thread that has certain names mentioned. Not a wise move on mameson's part, but nobody ever accused her of being very smart.

    ...

    I love it when mameson talks this way, though. It just leads to further understanding of how mameson makes things up and calls it fact. "There is evidence from early on in this case that certain people were put here for a reason. (Duh, what reason is that, mameson?) That reason (no comma) was to pick up information and change and divert opinion along the way. We (who's "we," mameson?) know who many of the players are...

    This is the same chit mameson pulled when she told us about all the people who were after her and her little pet Nancy. Figments of mameson's imagination and indicative of how she has totally twisted everything about this case and her insider information.

    "We know who many of the players are..." hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, omygawd, halp me jezus, can this piece of work get any dumber?

    I remember the first time I ever challenged mameson on a post she wrote - it was just after she interviewed Krebs. She went off like a rocket ship and accused me of being one of "them," in so many words. This is more of the same bullchit mameson likes to throw out there, like she has all the answers.


    I assume mameson wrote this post in her unreal life, since she doesn't connect her "real life" to her unreal life, her cyber life.. Seems to me anyone sitting down at a keyboard and typing words and sentences on a screen and sending them to an internet board is doing so in her real life, because there really is no such thing as a cyber life. Real people put real input into real posts. That's real life to me. I am sitting at my keyboard in my real skin, in a real chair, on my real butt, using my real fingers to type real words on my real screen, and soon I will point my real mouse at a real button on my screen and send this real post to the real FFJ. I guess what mameson is really saying is that she is a phoney b!tch with no life.

    Mameson really ought to stay clear of making unfounded assumptions about others when she is clearly talking out her unreal a$$.
     
  12. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Re: What's the difference between jameson and mameson?

    Mameson will never change, she brings new meaning to "blow it out your :(:(:(".

    Look at her take on the"official documents"...She is so dumb she would probably steal free samples...

    Swear to God if she stuck a battery up her butt she'd say, “I got the power.â€
     
  13. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Get her, WY

    Personally, Jameson doesn't annoy me as much as Mame does. Only because Mame ruined JusticeWatch though. Yet it is possible that Jammy sent her there in the first place. We never know.

    It's a crazy world, some things change...............like I heard recently that the Morning After pill for Birth Control will be available over-the counter..........oh well, back on topic
    :rolleyes:

    Is Mame referring to Fleet White's minions or Steve's? This is all becoming a blur from hir.

    RR
     
  14. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    She's such a phoney, RR

    I heard she is the only one at that Purgatory forum at Delphi who has a red heart after her name. I mean, gimmeeafluckingbreak, how old is this woman? I guess if you pay more you get a red heart of something? What's the purpose except to put herself above all the other posters, at least in her teeny little mind. Everything she does, she does as though she is better than anyone else. She is so transparent, and I'm sick of her going after one of the most decent posters on the forums, not to mention one of the most decent and lovely people on the planet, Tricia. Mame isn't fit to utter Tricia's name, but she's stupid enough to keep it up. She is making a big mistake, but I'll let her find that out for herself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2003
  15. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Mame's Heart

    I know that's some contradiction there UNTIL you remember Nancy Krebs FEAR of Heart's............remember her freaking out because she received a card with a heart on it - poor thing almost had a meltdown.

    Now can you see that it is typical Mame?

    Go ahead and get me started-
    RR
     
  16. AK

    AK Member

    Mame's heart on

    That's hilarious, RR. I remember telling Mameson that she might wanna think twice about referring to NK by so many diff names since it would only be encouraging any feelings of MPD she might experience. Would it surprise me that mame is a phony enabler, more interested in keeping her victim sick to further her own agenda? Nope.

    WY, you are as real as all get out. That's the beauty of you. You use common sense, logic, passion and an unbelievable memory to go after your targets, and you skewer the google girls with such panache. Of course they give you nonstop material to work with... :D

    I've lost interest in what the 3 Ms are babbling about, mostly because they have gotten so confused I can't follow them and don't wanna spend the time catching up. But the way they all fixate on azz-backwardz ideas and run them into the ground is kinda amusing (as long as you're not one of the people wrongly accused people who aren't on the forums and could be harmed by their nonsense).

    Like this Sherrill Whisensand. What the hell are they talking about? Is that supposed to be me? And, I work for Hill & Knowlton? Jeezuz, I guess that's where the K in my screen name comes from...not. Do they understand that H&K has done contract work for the CIA? Quick, tell someone to have Holly call the Agency and invite the person who answers the phone to come to a backyard BBQ! I have no doubt that the Googlettes will find a way to combine their favorite fantasies with the Top 10 conspiracies of all time.

    These people and their pizz-poor research skills! So it turns out all this time that they had the paperwork that proved NK is a fraud and chose not to post it. They should have taken out full-page ads in USA Today to atone for their sins. Right there it proves how little regard Mamsey Ramsey has for journalistic integrity. If these guys---and of them---see that a wrong has been committed due to their malice they should work overtime to rectify the damage. If they don't, one has to conclude there is more to their actions. They lied about the NK, they lied about Fleet White, they lied about the Hill/Singular connection, they lied about me and they have caused several forums to go out of business. What a legacy. Is it any wonder they have no supporters left?

    On the subject of poster hysteria...

    I'm still catching up on email from when I was traveling, but someone sent me a post from one of those delphi.com forums where Starry is still babbling that I stole her lecture notes. Completely untrue, of course, as I tried to explain. But now she's saying that there were specifics in her transcript that got put into some story somewhere? That is so bogus! Any time two people attend the same lecture they're bound to get the same info, right? All I can say is I'm certain her efforts were appreciated by the posters who read them, but to suggest that I or anyone stole her notes is absurd. I am not in the habit of posting transcripts or notes of the many seminars or classes I attend. I don't have time. If she wants to do that, great. But she should really shut up about trying to make a weird assumption out of nada. Maybe she expected that we would meet up and have dinner first? LOL.

    Then I heard that Szundi made a similar claim that some tarot card material was taken, presumably by me. This has to be a joke. It just ain't funny. I wouldn't read, much less promote, anything having to do with tarot, psychics, astrology, Magic 8 balls, or any other silly stuff. Isn't this the woman who's a medical doctor? The one who wrote the hymen post that everyone appreciated? And she believes in tarot cards? Not very scientific. Whatever -- I don't care what she wants to believe in, but she shouldn't accuse me of anything untoward. Shame on her.
     
  17. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    For those that don't know Jack!
     
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