UncleBlabby's discovery

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Watching You, Aug 9, 2003.

  1. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    and he doesn't even know it, LOL. Or, maybe he does. How about it, UB, do you know what you just discovered?

    I received a thread from Purgatory entitled, "The DNA on her Body." While reading the thread, I came across a post made by our own dear Uncle Blabby, and one from APRAINSONG, who, I believe, is Rainsong at the swamp. Actually, it was Rainsong who got my brain working on this one, but UB started it all.

    UB posted the following to the Rambot APRAINSONG:

    "Mr. Ramsey said in his interview that he didn't want Patsy to see JBR that way, so he ran upstairs and got a blanket. That's not what happened, he didn't run upstairs and get a blanket. He carried JB's body upstairs, laid her somewhere, he says under the Christmas tree, Linda Arndt claims she carried her into the living room from where JR had placed her body.

    That's not the biggest problem with his statement, though. If he did not want his wife to see JBR that way, why did he carry her body up the stairs to where his wife was? Why didn't he just leave her in the basement and prevent Patsy from going downstairs?"


    The Rambot Rainsong responded thus:

    "Assume--for only a moment--that neither Ramsey was involved in JonBenet's death. Now, put yourself in John Ramsey's place.
    You spend hours filled with anxiety, worry, dread over the fate of your daughter, listening to your wife sobbing, knowing you can't take much time to comfort her because you have to arrange the ransom money, speak to the detective and discuss how you should respond to the kidnapper when he calls. The time for the call passes and you wonder if the "tomorrow" in the note meant today or tomorrow. The detective tells you to look for signs of something out of place. You and your friend search the basement, looking into the train room, a closet, the boiler room, all the while wondering what has happened to your baby.

    You open the door to the wine cellar, step inside and see a white blanket on the floor. It is your little girl, your baby.

    How cogently would you be thinking?

    Practical Homicide Investigations has a chapter on Secondary Victims. The following are a few excerpts from the chapter.

    "Stages of Grief:
    1. Denial: shock, confusion, avoidance, refusal to participate in acknowledgments, crying, physical pain, weakness, nausea, sleep disturbances, loss of appetite.

    2. Protest or anger: anger at self, loved one, God, the world, irritability, lack of concentration, frenzied activity, fatigue

    3. Despair: urge to recover what was lost, slower thinking and actions, sorrow, agony, depression, hopelessness, and powerlessness

    4. Detachment: apathy, indifference, decreased socialization, disengagement from the world, absent spontaneity, and effect

    5. Reconstruction of life: spasms of grief, a loss is forever"

    "However, an even more important point to note is that the grieving process, despite clinical interpretations and definitions of stages and references to 'normal periods' is unique to each individual. People grieve in different ways and process that grief over different lengths of time. In fact, the grieving process is often the entire life span of the griever. There are cultural and religious differentiations as well as individual dynamics. Survivor behaviors vary considerably from one person to another and there is a wide range of normal responses in thinking, feeling and behavior."

    "When a child is murdered, the parents are totally devastated. It is so unacceptable, inappropriate, and unnatural that parents cannot even begin to comprehend what has happened. The result is extreme psychological stress which is termed 'parental bereavement.'"

    Now go back to your post: "Mr. Ramsey said in his interview that he didn't want Patsy to see JBR that way, so he ran upstairs and got a blanket. That's not what happened, he didn't run upstairs and get a blanket. He carried JB's body upstairs, laid her somewhere, he says under the Christmas tree, Linda Arndt claims she carried her into the living room from where JR had placed her body."

    Look at the very first stage of grief: Denial: shock, confusion

    I ask again, how cogently would you be thinking?

    AP Rainsong"

    I've checked this morning and haven't seen any response from UncleBlabby to Rainsong's post, but I'm going to respond to it, because it's just too good to let it pass.

    I'm not going to get into what those two were discussing, if one can call what Rainsong does, "discuss," LOL. She's so far off the mark on her answer, anyway, poor dear. It doesn't compute with her that her answer is unrelated to the point I think UB was trying to convey, but that's their bag, not mine. I want to get into another area that Rainsong unwittingly opened up. And, I think it's a BIGGIE.

    Next post.
     
  2. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Which blanket, which time?

    Rainsong doesn't know it, but she's just stepped all over JR's little you-know-what.

    Here is Rainsong's original post (in part) that I think UB was responding to:

    John Ramsey states in his interrogation that JonBenet was wrapped like a papoose: JR: Well, I see a white blanket that's folded across the body neatly...she was laying on the blanket...the blanket caught up around and crossed in front of her as if somebody was tucking her in.

    JR: I just remember just talking and, "Come on baby." And I tried to untie her arms. They were tied up behind her head.

    LS (Lou Smit): Were they tied tight?

    JR: Yeah, very tight...her skin was swollen around. And they were not easy to get off. I tried to untie them quickly and I just picked her up, carried her upstairs. I was screaming. In fact, I couldn't even scream.

    And then I brought her upstairs into the living room and laid her there, at one point, tried to untie the knot further, and Linda Arndt stopped me from doing it...


    .....So when I first found her I was like, "Thank God I found her." I didn't want Patsy to see her that way and I ran upstairs and got a blanket off one of the chairs.

    I believe all these quotes came from the NE Police Files book, JR's interrogations.

    Aside from the obvious descrepancies, do you see anything else there? You will.

    Next post.
     
  3. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I didn't want Patsy to see her that way and I ran upstairs and got a blanket off one of the chairs.


    I can't believe I missed this when I read the NE book. Think about this - to what time period is JR referring when he says he ran upstairs and got a blanket? This one statement alone could change the entire focus of the investigation, if anyone were paying attention. At the very least, the questioner, whom I believe was Lou Smit, should have instantly pounced on this statement.

    You say you didn't want Patsy to see her that way and ran upstairs and got a blanket....to cover her... Could you give us a little more detail on this, Mr. Ramsey? JR would have had to scramble to cover his butt on this one, because he said what he said, and there is no explaining it. Grief doesn't explain it - these interrogations happened months after the fact. ''

    Confusion MIGHT explain it, only in the fact that JR has two different events mixed up in his mind.

    What if John's statement, I didn't want Patsy to see her that way and I ran upstairs and got a blanket off one of the chairs, was true at stated? The next question should have been, "WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN?" Because, if we take JR at his word here, which we almost have to because it is so precise and in conflict with what happened when he found JB's body, then there was another period of time when he ran upstairs and got a blanket to cover JB's body so Patsy wouldn't have to view it in it's death mask.

    Is anyone getting what a keg of worms this statement should have opened, that is, if anyone had been really listening in that interrogation? It appears that John may have been talking about two different events - one when he ran upstairs to get a blanket to cover JB's body, and the other when he carried JB's body upstairs.

    What that statement says to me is that JR most likely knew that JB was lying dead in that room before he "found" her the afternoon of December 26, that he most likely knows what happened to JB, and that he most likely, at the very least, covered JB's body with the blanket she was found wrapped in.

    You can fill in the blanks, yourself.
     
  4. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Before anyone says

    well, John meant he ran upstairs with JB's body and found a blanket and covered her with it so Patsy wouldn't have to see it, I'll ask the same question UB asked at Purgatory.

    If John Ramsey didn't want Patsy to see JB's body, why did he carry it to the first floor where Patsy was? Why didn't he just leave the body hidden in that room in the basement and keep Patsy on the first floor? That won't wash with me.

    There is also that troublesome little factoid that JBR's body already had a blanket covering it when JR found her in the basement. If he didn't want Patsy seeing her when he brought her upstairs, he could have left that blanket over her.
     
  5. Thor

    Thor Active Member

    Excellent analysis UB & WY! I will give my congrats to both of you on this, for your thoughts. This is just more chit that points to the Ramsey's guilt, IMO. At least guilty knowledge of what happened that night cause I still don't have a particular person as a perp. I still go back & forth. Why oh why didn't any of the cops jump on these inconsistencies? Why are these people still walking outside a prison cell?


    That NE book is full of gems, just like the ***.

    Regarding :(:(:(:(ant, aka Rainsong, I'm surprised she didn't jump right back with an explanation. Maybe she just missed it. That's ok, I wouldn't wanna hear it anyway.
     
  6. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Here's a thought

    I didn't want Patsy to see her that way and I ran upstairs and got a blanket off one of the chairs.

    Obviously, there is a huge conflict in John Ramsey's words and his actions. He says he didn't want Patsy to see JB that way, but he took JB upstairs where Patsy was. One doesn't have to be Einstein to see the illogic of that.

    There have been some very blatant instances of conflicting statements in the past; i.e., the different versions of what happened in Atlanta between Fleet White and John Ramsey. Ramsey claims FW became irate because he wanted the John and Patsy to go on CNN and speak to the public. The other version is that FW was angry because the Ramseys seemed to be stonewalling the police instead of cooperating with them.

    There is only one of these versions that makes any sense. Why would FW and his wife storm out of Atlanta, angry, never to speak to their good friends again, if John and Patsy did what he wanted them to do - go on CNN? If White got what he wanted, why would he be angry? It makes no sense. OTOH, it does make sense that the Whites would be angry because they were dead set against the Rams going on CNN when they refused to meet with the police, and that is the reason they left Atlanta. That alone makes me believe the Ramseys lied in their book about what happened in ATlanta.

    Now, given this one example (and there are others where the Ramseys' version of events makes no sense), then one begins to question everything the Ramseys say.

    I didn't want Patsy to see her that way and I ran upstairs and got a blanket off one of the chairs.


    I've gotten so I look the opposite way with everything the Rams say. If John Ramsey said he didn't want Patsy to see JB that way and her ran upstairs...., then I am inclined to believe just the opposite. His actions certainly prove he was lying, because he certainly did not take actions to protect Patsy from seeing JB that way. He took JB's dead body to where Patsy was. Hello? Is anybody listening? Is it possible that Ramsey most certainly did want Patsy to see her that way? Was that his way of saying to his wife, don't fluck with me? - to carry his stiff daughter's body upstairs where Patsy was and put her under the Christmas tree like some offering? (There's another example - Arndt says she is the one who moved JB to the Christmas tree, Ramsey claims he carried her there. I believe Arndt, but we are going by Ramsey's statement right now.)


    I didn't want Patsy to see her that way and I ran upstairs and got a blanket off one of the chairs.


    I didn't want Patsy to see her that way, so I carried JB upstairs where Patsy was. What a flucking dumb thing to say.
     
  7. Little

    Little Member

    Watching You,
    I have a few things saved re: the CNN dispute, the avoidance of police interviews, etc.:

    http://autos.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0207depo1.shtml

    Ramsey deposition reveals turmoil
    JonBenet's father talks about seeking slaying suspects, estrangement from his former friends
    *****
    Ramsey also reveals that a New Year's Day interview on CNN just after the murder was done at the suggestion of family friend Fleet White. White was with Ramsey when he discovered his daughter's body in the basement of the Ramseys' Boulder home.
    "Well, the stated reason was that we were getting crucified in the press," Ramsey says. "We ought to let people see who we were."
    ******
    http://www.denverpreps.com/extra/ramsey/0820flte2.html

    White and Ramsey were close friends
    By Michael O'Keeffe
    Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer

    When Fleet White Jr. and John Ramsey found JonBenet's body, it was the beginning of the end of a close friendship.

    The men had a lot in common.

    Both were wealthy -- Ramsey made his fortune in the computer industry, while White is a retired oil executive. They lived in same neighborhood, had young daughters and their wives were active in charities.

    The Ramseys -- John, Patsy, JonBenet and her brother Burke -- had dinner at the home of White and his wife, Priscilla, on Christmas 1996. The Whites were among the last people to see the 6-year-old alive.

    Police cleared White, 49, as a suspect in April 1997.

    White and Ramsey reportedly became estranged when White criticized the Ramseys when they didn't cooperate with Boulder police.

    A Vanity Fair article, citing an unnamed source, said White initially had peered into the room where JonBenet's body was found but didn't see it. The article suggests Ramsey later brought White past a small broken window and to the room to establish the possibility of an intruder.

    In December, the Whites asked Gov. Roy Romer to replace Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter with a special prosecutor. Romer refused.

    So White, who had posted a "Journalists Keep Out" sign at his home and wrote a letter to The New York Times asking that everyone leave Boulder alone, took his case to the media.

    He wrote a letter to the editor of the Boulder Daily Camera urging that Romer remove Hunter.
    August 20, 1998

    PMPT PG 65
    What Patsy’s sister Polly noticed at her parent’s home was that Fleet White was quarreling angrily with her brother-in-law John.

    Patsy was standing to one side of them while Fleet hovered over John, telling him he had to go back to Boulder and help the police. It was wrong for him to hire his own investigators and criminal attorneys, said Fleet. His job was to cooperate with the police, not stonewall them. John’s face reddened. It was obvious that he was embarrassed to be having this conversation in front of his wife and family. But Fleet kept at him. What was this he’d head about John contacting CNN for an interview? His daughter had just been buried! How could Patsy and John even think aobut going on television? Even if they wanted to respond to rumors that were going around, a TV appearance was unthinkable. By that point, Fleet had his hands at John’s face, but John wasn’t saying much. Then the room fell silent. The two friends separated, knowing they would never speak to each other again.

    http://autos.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0207depo1.shtml

    Ramsey deposition reveals turmoil
    JonBenet's father talks about seeking slaying suspects, estrangement from his former friends
    By Jeff Kass
    Denver Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer


    Ramsey also reveals that a New Year's Day interview on CNN just after the murder was done at the suggestion of family friend Fleet White. White was with Ramsey when he discovered his daughter's body in the basement of the Ramseys' Boulder home.
    "Well, the stated reason was that we were getting crucified in the press," Ramsey says. "We ought to let people see who we were."


    The Ramseys have been accused of hiding behind their attorneys. But one to two days after JonBenet's death, Ramsey says that it was an attorney who approached him offering help.


    http://www.buffzone.com/extra/ramsey/1998/fleetletter.html
    Open Letter from Fleet & Priscilla White

    After JonBenet Ramsey was killed in Boulder nearly twenty months ago, her parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, immediately hired prominent Democrat criminal defense attorneys with the law firm of Haddon, Morgan and Foreman. This firm and its partners have close professional, political and personal ties to prosecutors, the Denver and Boulder legal and judicial communities, state legislators, and high-ranking members of Colorado government, including Governor Roy Romer.

    Fleet Russell White, Jr. and Priscilla Brown White
    August 17, 1998
    Boulder, CO
     
  8. Little

    Little Member

    And while I'm at it, this is from the NE Police Files. I was stunned at this. How could Patsy not ask Priscilla what it was she knew?

    Page 163-164:
    I just sort of remember Priscilla standing in my mother's living room, family room, you know, just kind of like this and saying , "Well, I know what's going on," and she said, "If you would give me a few minutes of your time, I could let you in on some things." And I turned to her and I said, "Priscilla, how can you know so much?" and I said, "I am the mother of this child. And I know nothing."
    TH: What was she referring to?
    PR: I dont have a clue. I really, I mean, you know, so many times I wish I would have taken her up on it to see what the hell she was talking about. There was just her - you know, it was just this kind of, "I know what's going on here and you don't. And if you give me a few minutes of your time I could clue you in."
     
  9. purr

    purr Active Member

    i have always said......and always will say

    that somehow.....somewhere.....someone
    will come up with the one piece of evidence
    that will put the ramsey's away.

    i guess i will now add to my conclusion....
    that this forum......this group of people..these someones
    will somehow........somewhere.....find
    lots of evidence to put the ramsey's away.

    i just love this thread and the "find" it holds.

    and there are more out there.

    good find uncle flabby and great analysis WY!!!!!

    i have also thought about the moment john
    found jonbenet. and i know the rest of you have too.

    i was just putting myself in john's place......
    if i came home with a friend and came upon.....and/or discovered a family member's
    body in my house....i would first check to see
    if my loved one was alive........check for vital signs.

    I DONT THINK JOHN EVER SAID HE DID THAT.

    am i wrong????

    and then i would stay with my loved one.....and i
    would ask the person/friend with me to
    go call 911 or get some help........

    wouldnt you???

    and if i was from a huge big company with security......
    and if i was an educated normal human being
    who had read a many a crime scene book....
    or watched a many crime /action/murder movies....

    I WOULD KNOW NOT to contaminate
    the crime scene.....and especially NOT to move
    the body of my loved one. what if they were still
    alive..........you all know that you should NEVER move the body of an injured person.......DONT YOU????

    do you see what i am saying....???
    do you follow me?????

    and hey....JOHN didnt even have to have his friend
    go call 911..........the police were in his phluckin house.......,
    so he could have asked Fleet to go get Linda Arndt and
    have her assess jonbenet and the situation.

    isnt that all phlucked up too????

    that just goes along with what uncle blabby and WY were saying.......

    and this goes without saying..............the
    documented way that john carried jonbenet up
    the stairs......at ARM'S LENGTH!!!!!

    wouldnt a loving father cradle his dying daughter.....
    or dead daughter in his arms????
    i know she was in rigor....but geez....John's actions
    speak louder than his words..........!!!!

    or wouldnt you just be frozen over the body and
    cry and scream........and NOT be able to move
    or function?????

    wouldnt fleet have had a hard time of pulling john
    away from jonbenet......after all those hours thinking
    she was kidnapped.....and then there she was.....
    possibly still alive.......but dead.......geez.......

    john's behavior is so OPPOSITE of
    any normal parent, father, human being, person.......
    bystander.......

    i think they are still under "THE TENT" of suspicion.....
    in my eyes!!!!!!
     
  10. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Uncle Blabby I have been meaning to tell you.

    Fantastic Catch!

    It just plays over and over in our heads doesn't it.

    It doesn't make any sense that John would carry JonBenet upstairs and then claim he didn't want his wife to see her that way so he ran upstairs to get a blanket.

    What also really bothers me is why did he hold her out so far? I can't imagine you wouldn't cradle your baby in your arms. God it makes me what to cry just thinking about it.

    Uncle Blabby. Doesn't make any sense. Thanks for catching.

    Little thanks for posts. It's always good to read up on that whole scene in Atlanta.

    WY you brought up a great point. Why would FW be mad if John did what FW wanted him to do? Go on CNN right? What a crock. Of course FW was telling him what we all know is true. Get back and cooperate with the police.

    Purr. Someday someone will speak. Someone with a piece of paper, a report, a picture, a fax, somebody will come forward with something that will help us put the pieces of this puzzle together.

    Tricia
     
  11. Uncle Blabby

    Uncle Blabby FFJ Senior Member

    Good morning to you

    glad to see this thread here. I can't waste my time debating with Ms. Rainsong at the Purgatory forum because she is what Ms. WY would call a Rambot.

    AB has some chores planned for me this morning so I'm going to mow the lawn now. I will try to stop back later. Thanks for the thread. It's nice to talk to rational people.
     
  12. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I love the passion of our posters

    Little, thanks so much for pulling those articles out for us. You bring up yet another instance of Ramsey weirdness.


    The one constant in this case has been and continues to be the fact that the Whites have never spoken to reporters or in public about what they witnessed or about their feelings concerning what happened. They are probably the only ones who haven't. That's good, but it's bad for us, because we don't know if Priscilla even said those words, to begin with, and if she did say them, we don't know if Patsy embellished them or what Priscilla meant by them. We've seen how John twisted Fleet's words and actions to mean just the opposite of what really happened. Could it also be possible that Patsy is the one who made the statements she attributes to Priscilla? The only ones who know for sure are Patsy and Priscilla, and I'll bet Priscilla could give us an earful if she were of a mind to do so. In the long run, I'm glad both she and Fleet have maintained their integrity and refused to talk to anyone outside LE.

    Say it happened as Patsy said it happened, though. It's possible Priscilla was warning Patsy that she knew what was going on and it wasn't good for the Ramseys. I really don't believe Priscilla ever said this - I think Patsy made it up - maybe it was one of those grief-induced memory lapses Rainsong mentions when talking about JR. That seems to only come into play whenever there are conflicting statements, though. When the statements agree with Rainsong's version, the Ramseys' memories are crystal clear. Imagine that. I would bet Rainsong would say that Patsy's alleged statements that "We didn't mean for this to happen" were under the grief-induced loss of memory.

    Uncle Blabby's right - Rainsong's just another stump in the wilderness of stumps left after the woodsmen took the best and left the rest. And everyone knows you can't argue with a stump.
     
  13. purr

    purr Active Member

    yep, yep.......i agree with you patsy

    i have always thought that someday burke
    would spill the beans.......when his folks have
    passed on..........and when he got lots
    of counseling.....and when he matured.......

    and understood...........that justice for jonbenet......

    was so very IMPORTANT. !!!

    and it would help me HEAL as a human being.

    dear God,
    please be with Burke during this move......
    He needs your strength and wisdom.
    please let Burke come forward with
    THE TRUTH someday.

    i ask this in Jesus' name,
    amen

    humbly,
    purr
     
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