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  1. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2001



  2. #26

    Default DejaNu

    If you would take the time to read Steve Thomas' book you will discover that the point of bymum's conversation with FW was to inform him that Haddon, Morgan, and Foreman had been retained, and that he was to stay out of it. As I said in an earlier post, this is a waste of time. Get up to speed!

  3. #27


    Good Lord, Spade. I read that book years ago. Who died and made you God? Get over yourself and stick to the topic.

  4. #28

    Default DejaNu

    The only topic I'm interested in is to find a path to justice for JonBenet Ramsey. Since you think that rich people call or should call their civil lawyers when they discover their children have been kidnapped then you are an obstruction on that path.

  5. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Western OR

    Default Spade

    If you would take the time to read Steve Thomas' book you will discover that the point of bymum's conversation with FW was to inform him that Haddon, Morgan, and Foreman had been retained, and that he was to stay out of it. As I said in an earlier post, this is a waste of time. Get up to speed!
    (Forgive me, for I haven't read Thomas' book.) Ok, so we know the purpose of the face to face meaning and what was said (more or less), but that still doesn't explain the why. Is there any explanation given to why FW in particular was called in like a bad child to the principal's office and essentially told to stay out of it?

    That's what intrigues me. I don't think it's a 'waste of time'.

    The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
    -- Eden Phillpotts

  6. #30

    Default Reason

    Bynum called FW to his office to tell him that Haddon, Morgan, and Foreman had been hired. The Ramsey's wanted their attorneys to handle the situation and they wanted FW to stay out of it.

    The intriging thing about this is the timing. JBR's body was discovered at aprox. 1:15 PM. The Ramsey's had Haddon etal. HANDLING the situation by 4-5 PM. IMO Bynum had to have a head start, maybe 3-4 AM.

    FW received special attention from Bynum because he was an outspoken advocate of the fact that John and Patsy's first priority should be cooperation with the police....not hiding behind lawyers who were HANDLING the situation.

  7. #31

    Default DejaNu

    I strongly believe that both the 911 call and initial call to Bynum were part of a preconceived plan by the Ramseys to promote the kidnapping story.
    I agree with you as regards the 911 call; however, I disagree regarding Bynum. Of course, I disagree with just about everyone as regards Bynum.

    Ramsey did call Bynum, but he didn't wait until 6:00 a.m. to do so. Sufficie it to say, I've heard the telephone records were not dumped, and there were calls made in the middle of the night by John, and that one of the recipient of those calls was one, Mike Bynum.

    Please take notice that Bynum was up and out of his house by 5:30 that morning, according to his own testimony. He claims he was out of town snowshoeing. He doesn't show up in Boulder until late that afternoon, and he's no sooner in town when he calls White into his office!

    The purpose for calling White is, I believe, as you noted. White took copious notes; he's intelligent and knows how to add (as in 2 + 2 = murder). Bynum called White to his office that afternoon to tell him to stay out of this because Bynum was handling things and had retained Haddon's firm for representation.

    Also consider how Bynum was able to make contact with Haddon's firm and get John representation while he was out in the mountains snowshoeing!

    I disagree with you that the parents should have called their lawyers upon finding the note. This is a guilty mind at work! A parents worst fear has been realized and he should get immediate help to find his daughter...not immediate help to cover his :(:(:( from police scrutiny!!! Discussions have been rampant as regards who should have been called that morning. John was involved with defense contracts and was a CEO whose "wealth" was advertised in the paper just prior to the kidnapping. John should have been astute enough of what can happen to rich men's daughters, as well as how he should react if something terrible does happen. Telling his wife to call police while he took a shower doesn't cut it!

    Spade's making a decent point here...if Bynum knew nothing because he was out in the mountains snowshoeing all day, how did he manage to make contact with Ramsey and immediately get criminal representation? Which brings up another point: just because he's aware of how police would look to the family first as suspects, what drove him to immediately believe that Ramsey needed criminal representation immediately? Bynum was a former prosecutor and could have easily handled this in the beginning. Why bring in the big guns so soon...say, before a body's even found?

    jmho w/a little help from a source or two. ;-)

  8. #32


    Spade, I'm sorry you feel I'm some impediment to your mission. I believe in civil rights, the presumption of innocence and Miranda when it says, "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney...." Anyone facing that statement would be foolish not to lawyer up then cooperate. However, you have the right to your opinion as well. Hope you're never in a situation where you'll need to exercise Miranda...

    Chris Wolf, in absence of counsel, was extremely belligerent and combative with BPD when interviewed on several occasions. As yet, no one has voiced a problem with his reaction to LE suspicion. Yet many RDIers have taken up his cause, just as further fuel against the Ramseys.

    The legal system provides accommodation for both truth AND preservation of civil rights. When one is chosen over the other, justice is not served. The only way to achieve both is through competent legal counsel to preserve those rights AND cooperation with an investigation to uncover the truth without violating them. This also diminishes opportunity for the convicted to file appeals, another legal strategy.

    Ginja, good to see you.

    IMO an innocent parent who just woke up to a ransom note threatening to kill his child if he calls police would want legal advice on whether to call LE or handle it without interference. I find that reasonable and proper in the premise. That's all. Why Bynum felt it necessary to retain Haddon, and at what point from initial contact, none of us knows. It could well be at the point that morning when the FBI didn't take over the investigation for lack of jurisdiction because their assessment via BPD was that this was not a legit kidnapping. From that point, whenever it was, the parents are the automatic first suspects and would benefit from legal representation under Miranda.

    I would not be surprised at all if the lawyer-calls from the Ramseys started WAY before the 911 call was placed, but disagree that it would take many, many hours to get everything in place. I guess I'm just not articulating it clearly that I would expect those calls from them, believing in their guilt. And I don't find it hinky that Bynum could be reached while on vacation. I've reached lawyers on airplanes, boats, in Europe, Hawaii, at all hours of the day and night, by cell, land line and fax. You especially know that those of us in the business live for it -- the law is a jealous mistress. Bynum is/was a close friend and JR had a dependency established on him already. And I don't think it's hinky that Bynum would have contacted Haddon, another good friend, to line up representation. I strongly suspect that the reason JR disappeared for a couple hours was to have a confab with Haddon via cell away from Arndt's cop ears. It was shortly after his return that the body suddenly appeared out of nowhere and FW got the call from Bynum. I don't know your sources, but trust your judgment certainly.

    What interests me is how Bynum and JR felt so much threat from FW that he got summoned to Bynum's office (when he was out of town?) so quickly and was told to stay out of it. FW must have been voicing a lot of opinions throughout the day. I also suspect he had a little chat with Burke when the kid was at the Whites, and probably learned quite a bit about activities in the Ramsey household that night.

    And while we're on the subject, as you mentioned, JR's employment with Lockheed Martin, the largest gov't. contractor, is certainly a factor in this. LM, I discovered through my own sources, provides security to its execs, a fact surely known by JR. Why didn't he call LM Security that morning, if for nothing else, at least to provide security for the rest of his family? I believe this is telltale to the fact that JR knew the kidnapping wasn't legit.
    Last edited by DejaNu; September 17, 2003, 5:35 pm at Wed Sep 17 17:35:13 UTC 2003.

  9. #33


    I have always wondered how the R's had the presence of mind to call in so many friends to assist in contaminating the crime scene. Now I wonder if they called in friends to provide an excuse for the lawyer calls. To spin the lawyer calls they can now say "we called all our good friends in our hour of need." The fact that the other folks they called innocently destroyed evidence by cleaning up, etc, was just a bonus.

  10. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    NCSouth of Mason-Dickson Line


    I have a question.

    If there are phone records that Bynam and others were called prior to the 911 call, why is Boulder wasting money with this investigation? Everything the Ramseys said about their morning is now null and void.

    The handcuffs should have been all shined up and ready. A fur trimmed orange jumpsuit for a special ex Miss West Virginia.

    I am not doubting it happened. I think there was alot that went on before 911 called. It's just my lil ole opinion.

    But I want to know why this charade continues if there were phone records. Or did they go in a paper shredder somewhere? Or get "crashed" off the phone companies computer? Just lil ole me wondering.

    Of course, what I say is just lil ole me's opinion.

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