1. brenk

    brenk Member

    Thanks ravens-tears for the advice on posting.

    For some time now I would like to see others thoughts on this.

    I was watching "Cold Case Files" a woman was killed with a
    garrote. What really got my attention was the cord.
    It looked exactly like the one used on JB.

    To make a long story short: It took sometime to investigate because the cord was so unusual. Come to find out it was cord
    from a parachute.

    I thought parachute cord would be thicker-wider, but it wasn't.

    kk
    :)
     
  2. 1000 Sparks

    1000 Sparks Active Member

    kk

    I think parachutes are like most other wearable garments, small, medium and large.

    The cord was probably from the small one.

    Ruthee said she thought the cord was from Patsy's painting, the cord used to carry to and fro class. I think she was right on. Pam took those painting out of the house along with the golf clubs and other sentimental chit.
     
  3. EasyWriter

    EasyWriter FFJ Senior Member

    kk:

    "For some time now I would like to see others thoughts on this.

    I was watching "Cold Case Files" a woman was killed with a
    garrote. What really got my attention was the cord.
    It looked exactly like the one used on JB."

    There may have been some similarity in the type of cord, (nylon probably) but
    that's the end of it. JonBenet was not garroted. The cord handle was not pulled to
    strangle her to death. The cord was TIED around the neck
    to create a poorly constructed noose. It was part of the staging
    no less than the bogus note. For details, see my "Garrote
    Analysis", also my letters to DA, Keenan.
     
  4. brenk

    brenk Member

    Garrote.... 1000Sparks...EasyWriter

    1000Sparks,
    Yes, I read sometime back Ruthee's thoughts on the cord. I think she could be right.
    I was just thinking PR may have stated to JR she needed cord for her paintings and just maybe JR supplied her with parachute cord? :)

    Easy Writer,
    I referred to the apparatus as a garrote because that is what it was called. I have no way of knowing if it was truly a garrote.
    I'm not new to JB case. I have seen the autopsy pictures and have been following the case from the beginning.

    I myself have opinions as what really happened to JB but, I like to keep an open mind as to other people's ideas.

    Anyone is entitled to post their opinion but that doesn't mean,
    *subject colsed* because a particular person has voiced his/hers
    opinion.

    Thanks for responding :)
    kk
     
  5. Nikeo

    Nikeo Member


    If I get kicked off the forum for this so be it, but I am really angry over your saying the cord was tied around the neck to create a poorly constructed noose,....

    Take one look at these horrific pictures and you will know without a doubt that it was not staging, somebody meant business when they made this garrot, horrific damage was done to this precious child! This child suffered unspeakably, take one look at these pictures if you dare and please never again say it was staging or poorly constructed, it helped to kill this precious child in the most horrific of ways to kill a human being. You can see the scratch marks on her neck where it looks like she was clawing to get that garrot off of her neck.

    Garrot immages can be found at this link.....

    http://www.jameson245.com/garotte.htm
     
  6. EasyWriter

    EasyWriter FFJ Senior Member

    Nikeo:

    "If I get kicked off the forum for this so be it, but I am really angry
    over your saying the cord was tied around the neck to create a
    poorly constructed noose,...."

    What I see is that you don't like my conclusion. I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is that I don't see is any attempt to refute the observations and arguments in the references given supporting the conclusion. Perhaps some day we can meet in court along with the Ramseys, Smit, Keenan, Carnes, Wood, whoever, and all shall have the opportunity to try refute my arguments along with a physical demonstration before a jury. Now wouldn't that be nice? I'm looking forward to it.
     
  7. Nikeo

    Nikeo Member

    I really don't know what more you could want to refute your observations and arguments, these pictures "say it all" to refute your conclusion. The garrot was constructed well enough to have strangled this six year old child with horrific results as evidenced by the pictures. As far as the staging, I don't think staging ever entered the killer's mind, hir was doing what hir knew best, destroying and defiling a precious little girl with a well known device used by sexual predators. (By the way, I am not an intruder enthusiast, the parents did too many weird things for me to exonerate them totally.) You have your conclusions and I have mine. I know I get very emotional when I think about this crime and it upsets me that people think this was staging, in my humble opinion, the killer did exactly what they set out to do, viciously kill this little girl.

    Where is your conclusion, etc., I would like to read more about it, can you post the link? Thanks, Nikeo
     
  8. zapata

    zapata Senior Member

    KK

    I saw that same show only it aired on the Discovery channel at least a couple of years ago. It looks identical to the cord used to make the garrotte that was used in staging JonBenet's death. We all know that the head wound came first, and when she saw what she had done she decided to self-preserve, and not call 911.

    I felt the cording was so identical to the garrotte used to strangle the balance of life from JonBenet that I recorded the show the second time it aired that evening and sent the tape cassette to Steve Thomas.

    In Steve's book he tells of the BPD calling in a knot expert from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. I can't recall the guys name at present, but he has a site on the internet where he discusses the different knots. The last time I was at his site it was under construction. When I found his site he was just putting the site online. His picture is at the site. I just wish I could remember his name for you guys.

    Some people do not want it to be parachute cord because John had been at the airport all day Christmas day, and he was supposedly getting the plane ready to fly to Michigan the next morning. I would think, since they were flying over a body of water, that John would have checked all parachutes, and replaced cording if it needed replacing. I believe he could have brought a strand of the cord home with him. I bet Burke even saw the cording. If the garrotte had parachute cording, then that points to Ramsey guilt.

    I wish the new DA, (Ha!) would question Burk to see if he remembers his dad bringing a stand of parachute cord home with him on the 25th.

    All post are my opinion.
    zap
     
  9. EasyWriter

    EasyWriter FFJ Senior Member

    Nikeo"

    "I really don't know what more you could want to refute your
    observations and arguments, these pictures "say it all" to refute
    your conclusion.

    Again, declaration, but no explanation. I've been dealing with cords, ropes, knots, snares, lassos, nooses and handles since early childhood, which was a very long time ago. Yes, the pictures do say it all: A flawed-in-every-respect amateurish construction; an ad hoc bungled creation with materials at hand crudely put together by someone who didn't have the foggiest notion of what he\she was doing. In other words, a "need to" motivation resulting in grossly inept staging. (The "ransom note" wasn't any better.)

    "Where is your conclusion, etc., I would like to read more about it,
    can you post the link? Thanks, Nikeo"

    I'll be glad to.

    Garrote analysis, Parts I and II.

    http://www.acandyrose.com/delmarengland.htm

    http://www.acandyrose.com/05202003keenanletter.htm

    Also, both letters to Keenan containing information about the "garrote scene" and Smit's ridiculous fantasy can be found at the C & J forum.

    http://pub165.ezboard.com/fcrimeandjustice13552frm78

    P.S. BTW, parachute riser cords are nylon, but round, which is not the shape of the cord around JonBenet's neck.
     
  10. brenk

    brenk Member

    parachute cord

    Easy Writer: Quote

    P.S. BTW, parachute riser cords are nylon, but round, which is not the shape of the cord around JonBenet's neck.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    These were experts that examined the cord. (they said nothing about riser cord)
    The cord was NOT round, it was FLAT.
    I am not saying this is parachute cord, the EXPERTS are.

    You said:" the cord around JB neck was poorly constructed."
    Maybe so, but as you can see in the pictures it was embedded
    so deep at first it wasn't known it was wrapped twice around her neck. I do think this was used to kill little JB just as the head blow was. So, poorly constructed or not, it did what the killer intended it to do.


    Zapata,
    Can you describe the cord, on the program you saw?
    :)

    kk
     
  11. EasyWriter

    EasyWriter FFJ Senior Member

    kk:

    "These were experts that examined the cord. (they said nothing
    about riser cord) The cord was NOT round, it was FLAT."

    My point exactly. This was in reference to an earlier speculation that the cord around JonBenet's neck was parachute cord. I stated the cord is not round, yet your response implied (by capitalization emphasis) that I had said otherwise.

    "I am not saying this is parachute cord, the EXPERTS are."

    What EXPERTS would that be?

    First, "they said nothing about riser cord)". Since risers are what these parachutes cords are called, if the EXPERTS said nothing about these riser cords, how could they say the cord is a parachute cord.

    You said:" the cord around JB neck was poorly constructed."

    No I didn't. Please reads what I write before presuming to quote. I said the cord was tied around her neck to create a poorly constructed noose.

    Also, you asked for the references to my conclusions about the "garrote scene." The references were provided, but evidently not examined. Do or don't as you please. If I am misquoted, assigned a position to defend not of my making, asked for argument references which were supplied, then the references ignored, from where I'm sitting, it looks like I'm just wasting my time. In short, believe whatever you prefer. I really don't care. I'm done.
     
  12. Nikeo

    Nikeo Member

    Easywriter, I was the one who asked for the link to your conclusions, not KK, thanks, Nikeo
     
  13. Nikeo

    Nikeo Member

    Delmar, your conclusions are as scientific as mine would be, i.e., they are only your opinion. Thanks again for the links.
     
  14. Misty4

    Misty4 Member

    My 2 cents

    I'd like to add my 2 cents to the garotte discussion.

    If JonBenet had been strangled using the device shown in the autopsy photos you would see a difference in the furrow mark surrounding her neck.

    Think about it.

    Using the garotte to strangle: you would either have to pull up on the cord causing a break in the ligature furrow or twisting the cord, which would have left an impression of the knot on JonBenet's neck. You see neither and this is evidenced in the autopsy report. The ligature furrow is complete around her neck with little deviation. In otherwords, someone took the cord, wrapped it around JonBenet's neck, crossed the cord, strangled her, and then attached the garotte to her neck.

    This is, indeed, my opinion; however, it is also evidenced in the autopsy report, which is not opinion -- it is fact.
     
  15. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Welcome Misty. Glad to see you posting. Keep jumping in ok?
     
  16. LurkerXIV

    LurkerXIV Moderator

    Misty

    Using the garotte to strangle: you would either have to pull up on the cord causing a break in the ligature furrow or twisting the cord, which would have left an impression of the knot on JonBenet's neck. You see neither and this is evidenced in the autopsy report. The ligature furrow is complete around her neck with little deviation. In otherwords, someone took the cord, wrapped it around JonBenet's neck, crossed the cord, strangled her, and then attached the garotte to her neck.

    Misty, does this lead you to believe it was a case of accidental erotic strangulation, minus the elaboration of a garrote?
     
  17. Elle

    Elle Member

    Nikeo

    You can go to the ACandyRose site ... http://www.geocities.com/Area51/nebula/9337/trim.html
    and see the cord trim around a navy jacket of JonBenét's, plus the same type of trim is also around a navy jacket of Patsy Ramsey's, because she liked her daughter JonBenét to wear outfits like her.

    like - mother-/like - daughter photos
    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/nebula/9337/puzzle.html

    JonBenét obviously didn't like when she rebelled against wearing the same outfit to the White's Christmas party on 25 December, 1996.



    This white trim may have been sewn on by Patsy herself. It certainly doesn't look like a first class sewing job on JonBenét's jacket (?). This same white cord (from any craft store) can also be used to make an "art-sling" for carrying a canvas if you're an artist. Patsy is an artist, therefore this cord could have already been in the home for either project.

    I'll try and attach a photo of Patsy Ramsey wearing her navy jacket which she wore on a television interview for Steve Thomas' benefit. To prove to him she could wear the same clothes two days in a row. On the morning JonBenét was found dead 26 Dec. 1996 - Patsy was still in the same red top she wore to the White's Christmas party.

    Steve interviewed Patsy Ramsey wearing her navy jacket trimmed with white cord, and the very next day she was wearing it again being interviewed on TV.

    Thank you ACandyRose http://www.ACandyRose.com for all the wonderful information you have provided relating to the garrote and much much more.
     
  18. ravens_tears

    ravens_tears Member

    I think the tension here is mainly because of miss-information and missunderstanding.

    A Short History Of The Garrotte

    Within this article there is a definition..
    ~snip~
    Other "Garrottes"

    So, if we exclude the execution devices, what is left? If we do exclude the execution devices, any flexible or semi-flexible weapon that cuts the air off by compressing and/or crushing the trachea, severs (up to and including complete decapitation) the trachea and other vital structures (carotid arteries, jugular veins, vagus nerve, etc.) or breaks the neck, we have a list of items that have been used as a "garrotte."
    ~snip~

    then later on in this article they discuss the different methods... I suggest perusing the methods of use adapted/referenced from "U.S. Army’s Field Manual 21-150"

    The autopsy photos clearly show that JBR had claw marks on her neck where (I assume) she attempted to get at/stop the cord. I believe in the autopsy report they found her own flesh under her fingernails....

    The following is my own opinion and understanding as my logic would dictate
    I believe that being strangled in this way is what ultimately resulted in her death. If the blow to the head had been delivered after strangulation there would not have been much blood at all at the trauma site as the blood flow had already been cut off. Severe trauma to the head can be debilitating but does not necessarily cause death. Children, in general, have higher odds of surviving and adapting after such trauma. Those who have survived it are generally not the same as they were before though.

    I think it's entirely possible that after such a blow, that in a state of unconciousness and shock, JBR would have appeared to be dead. Believeing her to be so, "staging" things initially would have seemed a simple solution, wrapping the cord around her neck would have been easy because she was not concious. And the staging would have been suspect if it was only "for show" and not actually used. I think that it is entirely possible that once the rope was tightened it roused her to conciousness enough to know to try to fight for her life. I think that if she hadn't been strangled, she may have had a chance at survival, albeit a slim one.....

    I guess my point being that yes, this little one was "garrotted". And staged or not, "staging" and the "quality" or "construction" of the weapon does not negate that this weapon was more than adequate to cause her death.
     
  19. Misty4

    Misty4 Member

    Hi Lurker

    Well, actually autoerotic asphyxiation usually a solo act.

    I have a difficult time with John using breath control as a stimulus especially with a child (but I suppose there are weirder things that happen). Certainly, Burke was to young to be that sophisticated in sex play techniques.

    Actually, I lean toward the head blow being inflicted by Patsy when she walked in on John fondling JonBenet and she basically lost it. (Went to hit John with the maglite and hit JonBenet instead.) The head blow, itself, most certainly would have lead to her death without the strangulation. JonBenet's respirations were probably very shallow. Certainly she was unconscious.

    Perhaps John and Patsy thought she was dead at this point. Panic set in -- John was blaming Patsy -- "see what you did" and Patsy was blaming John "if you hadn't molested her, this wouldn't have happened" ... thus, the cover up and two folks sticking together despite...
     
  20. Nikeo

    Nikeo Member

    On the back cover of my copy of DOI, Jon Benet is wearing the jacket that matches the picture of Patsy that you posted. I have been rereading their book again over the last few days and have studied that picture over and over, to be honest, I can't really tell if it looks like the garrote rope. I wonder why BPD has never compared the garrote to that clothing, maybe they did and that has never leaked out. If they did not, it is probably way too late to get those outfits from the Ramseys....

    Edited to add: When I look at the pictures on the ACR site, the piping edges on JB's jacket look zizzag to me. The garrote rope edges do not look zigzaged to me. This is the first time I have seen JB's jacket zoomed in on to show the detail of the piping, excellent work!
     
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