Staging?

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Zan, Jan 24, 2002.

  1. Zan

    Zan FFJ Senior Member

    Interested in your thoughts regarding what you think was staged in this crime....and why...


    I'll start with ....the wood splinters found nearthe paint box....outside the bodyroom door....

    The spinters have been said to have come from the broken paintbrush...Because the spinters were found outside the body room door...it is presumed that the murder took place in the basement....

    *I think that is what the killer wanted the "authorities" to think...

    ST(pg305hb) says that JB was found to have splinters up in her vagina....that were consistant to the paintbrush found attached to the cord arond JB's neck...therefore it is presumed that the paintbrush was the instrument used to abuse JB's vaginal area.

    The paintbrush was found to be broken TWICE...

    The broken paintbrush was 4.5 inches..

    JB's hymen was not intact...

    *If the paintbrush was the weapon used to penatrate JB's hymen...I think it was too short at only 4.5 inches...so was not broken until after penatrating her..JMO...

    Some wonder why the paitbrush was broken twice(how many piles of wood splinters were found?)....

    *I think one of those times was prior to the murder....possibly an old broken paintbrush Burke was using to whittle with...maybe even hidden when the knife was....upstairs in the cupboard...across from JB's room.....and I think the second time it was broken... was after JB was abused with it...before it was attached to the cord....I think it was broken in the basement near the paint tote...to deter authorities from discovering where the murder really took place...
     
  2. CMS

    CMS Banned

    No staging

    I don't think there was any staging. Not in terms of staging for police. I think all that happened did so within the confines of Patsy's mind. She gave little thought to long term consequences. The ransom note is such a pathetic composition and is so full of items that point back to Patsy that it cannot be correctly called an attempt to cover up. All the evidence of attacks on the body can be seen as functional, not to deceive police as staging, but as part of a composition of crime descriptions applied to a killing that had no relation to any of those types of crimes. Patsy sacrificed JonBenet as directed by a god in The Psalms and used methods found in Mind Hunter. The ransom note is a collection of words and phrases from literary sources, and is meant to deflect the guilt feelings of the killer. Any "planning" was part of Patsy's inner psychological workings and it's affects on the outer world are only incidental. It is quite possible that Patsy expected a different outcome than one death. She may have expected a ressurection or even a rapture. Remember the theme of "wherever we go, whatever we do, we're gonna go through it together"? One of the difficulties in understanding this case is the idea that what Patsy did has some relation to "normal" behavior when the actions of a psychotic may be related more to their inner fantasy. And their attempt to make that fantasy real in the "real" world only includes objects from the real world as props in the fantasy play.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2002
  3. JR

    JR FFJ Senior Member

    Zan

    <html>
    <body text="#000099" bgcolor="#CCFFFF" link="#00CC00" vlink="#FF0000" alink="#993366">
    Just curious, why would you think the part of the paint brush that was
    4.5 inches was too short?<b></b>
    <p><b>Anatomy</b><b></b>
    <p>The vagina is a canal that extends from the external vulva to the cervix.&nbsp;
    The vaginal walls can be easily distended but are normally 7.5 cm in length
    anteriorly and 9 cm long posteriorly.
    <p>http://www.e-vaginal.com/
    <p>2.54 cm - 1 inch so the vagina canal is 2.9 inches in length anteriorly
    and 3.5 inches long posteriorly.
    </body>
    </html>
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2002
  4. Zan

    Zan FFJ Senior Member

    JR/CMS

    JR...Thanks for that info...I was just looking at 4.5 inches...and it didn't seem long enough...I guess the question now would be...was there any fluids found on the broken brush that was attached to the cord? If not...maybe the cord was longer when the vaginal abuse took place...and the brush was broken to hide some evidence that the brush was used....Obviously the perp didn't realize splinters would be left in the vagina....



    CMS...You summed that up quite nicely...for some reason that does make sense to me...I did this long post at CS on the rapture fantasy some time ago...but no one was buying it..

    Also you said"and used methods found in Mind Hunter"

    Yes...We can see things that were used throughout the book....and some interesting connections in the "Atlanta" chapter (someones favorite town)...the mention of.. children being murdered... ligature strangulation...blunt-force trama to the head...a child being abducted from her bed...the absence of blood at one scene...and in another case, a phony ransom demand..

    What did you mean by>>>She gave little thought to long term consequences.<<
     
  5. CMS

    CMS Banned

    Consequences

    I think that the people Patsy involved in her crime were not considered by her the way normal people consider others in their daily actions. In other words the Mr. Ramsey she addressed the note to was not John but a character in her fantasy. Likewise the police that she expected to find the body were in her delusional mind different from the real people. A psychotic fantasy is "looped" or segmented, it's begining and end are restricted to the fantasy storyline and do not match our normal expectaions of the passage of time. As far as the splinters in the vagina, I say that indicates the vaginal penetration followed the breaking of the handle and the fingers transfered the splinters, the handle didn't leave them. As for the shortening, the last time I shortened a board it was to make it fit. Patsy could have been forced to shorten it to make it fit into whatever held it up above the head as the body was suspended. Or the brush broke as one end was placed into a hole and snapped under the weight. The shortening was then a consequence of the use. Form follows function.
     
  6. Zan

    Zan FFJ Senior Member

    the shortening

    Worth repeating!

    >>>The shortening was then a consequence of the use. Form follows function.<<

    911
    Zan: Police?

    Dispatcher: (inaudible)

    Zan: Forums for Justice

    Dispatcher: What’s going on there ma’am?

    Zan: We have a murder, hurry please.

    Dispatcher: Explain what is going on, Okay?

    Zan: My thread has been murdered. The killer left a note.

    Dispatcher: Your thread is dead and the killer left a note?

    Zan: Yea

    Dispatcher: Does it say who killed your thread?

    Zan: No, I don’t know, it’s there…it’s here…it’s right above this one…

    Dispatcher: Is it signed?

    Zan: It says, “there was no staging…CMS Victory!â€â€¦please …OMG hurry!

    Dispatcher: Okay(inaudible)

    Zan : Please send somebody! Hurry, hurry , hurry !!!

    Dispatcher: Zan? Zan? Zan? Zan?…..


    You are too good CMS....I know you have gone over this before..but could you tell me more about the part the suspension played....
     
  7. JR

    JR FFJ Senior Member

    CMS

    One of the problems with fantasy is that the real world must intrude. When one fantasizes, they must bring real world items into the fantasy as well (i.e. the paint brush.) The problem is that in the fantasy world, they don't rationalize the real world consequences of the real world objects (i.e. the splinters.)

    LOL! Zan.
     
  8. CMS

    CMS Banned

    It was an accident! Honest!

    I had to ask Thorkim recently what LOL meant, I agree and I'll add a B for beautiful and TAK for that's a keeper. I didn't mean to kill it, officer, just step on it a little. The idea of staging is crucial to the accident did it theory and the premed theory has to account for the staging characteristics. The suspension idea comes from the construction of the garotte. For a garotte, any length handle would do, any knot would do, the handle should be close to the neck for leverage and a slip knot would be best at the neck. Form follows function. The handle was shortened because it had to fit in a 5" space or one end into a 3" deep hole. The knot was large and complex so that it would not slip, it had to hold weight for a time. There was 17" of cord from the loop to the handle so the handle could be place up above the head. The wrist ligature on the arms when raised up comes close to the position of the handle when raised straight up behind the head and therefor could have been tied to the handle. This position of the body matches descriptions of "death apon a stake" displays of criminals in The Bible and also matches the use of gibbets. The evidence of several attempts at strangling suggests this part was important, difficult to do and may have had at least two purposes: death and display. Display is a common theme in serial murder. The lack of abrasion to the wrists suggests the cord was applied post consciousness. This to some suggests staging but to me suggests function in display. I would discount staging altogether but for the duct tape. The staging could mask a deliberate murder as well as an accidental one.
     
  9. Zan

    Zan FFJ Senior Member

    CMS

    Thanks...I sounds like everything had to be just right...How about picture perfect? Is there a picture? I have always felt that pr being such a visual person..obsessed with images...that if she did this...she would have taken a picture of the last pose...but..I am not suggesting that the display was for that purpose...I can understand that the display was in acting out her fantasy..but I also wonder if she took a picture...Also, do you think she the eyes were covered or uncovered? There was a sleeping mask taken into evidence...it was listed near things taken from the basement...however, I'm not sure it actually came from that area...
     
  10. CMS

    CMS Banned

    Picture imperfect

    Sure photography is a possibility but that sounds a bit cliche' to me. Patsy is more verbal/oral than visual as she recited on stage, was into forensics, wrote a lot of letters, had a degree in journalism, wrote DOI, was a reader, etc. The visual/image thing if you think about it is more oriented toward symbol. The twelve christmas trees, the crown and gown, the houses, wearing crosses and especially the over the top display of her daughter all have to do with symbolic expression. It is typical of serial killers to take some kind of keepsake or trophy. Often it is a piece of jewelry and Patsy did say she wanted the bracelet back. But if her goal was to turn JonBenet into an angel then the dead body would be secondary to it's symbolic reference. The hanging display would serve to finalize the death and impart the notion of criminalty to assuage guilt feelings. The cleaning, wrapping and "tombing" of the body as final acts are symbolic acts of care. Thus Patsy walks away from the deed having created an angel and caring for JonBenet. The one thing that sticks out as far as a trophy or keepsake is the My Twin Doll. The thought that Patsy kept the doll in the basement where she knew she would kill and hide her daughter and then present it on the day her daughter would leave the world makes the doll the most important symbolic object. I wonder what Patsy has done with that doll? How does she use it now?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2002
  11. Jeanilou

    Jeanilou Member

    The Twinn Doll:

    "I wonder what Patsy has done with that doll? How does she use it now?"...CMS

    Now that is a thought provoking question. Anyone got any answers?
     
  12. Zan

    Zan FFJ Senior Member

    replacing

    pr was into replacing things...JB knew this about her mother...pr replaced Jacques 1 with Jacques 11...she replaced the real Sister Sox from Charlevoix with the inanimate Sister Sox...It's my opinion that JB knew in those last days that something was wrong with mommy....but she had a hard time expressing it at her young age...She did try though...She went to see the school nurse on two Mondays in early Dec (ST)...She sat alone crying in the Butlers kitchen at the 23rd Christmas party...stating to an adult guest...that she didn't feel pretty....JB knew something was going on between her and her mother....She knew for certain when she was presented with the My Twin Doll Christmas morning....but she let her mother know....that the doll wasn't going to be good enough to replace her...by saying...'it doesn't look that much like me'...But it was too late her fate had been sealed....JMO
     
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