Heart in Hand

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by JustinCase, Feb 4, 2004.

  1. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Has anyone ever noticed that the heart drawn on JonBenet's palm contains a cursive style F with a period (.) right beside it???

    Here is a pic for comparison, all I did to cause the cursive style F to appear was changed the contrast and gamma (slightly) Nothing else has been done to cause this to appear here, anybody can do what I did providing they are viewing pics using a software that allows for color balancing and enhancing.


    What do you think??
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2004
  2. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    I was looking for a similar style cursive F that Patsy had written before the murder, I didn't have to look very far at all. "Dear Miss Kit"s closing "Fondly, Patsy & JonBenet" was perfect IMO

    Does anyone else see this??
     
  3. purr

    purr Active Member

    Are you a PI?

    If not, you should join BobC and be
    part of the Forum PI's.

    i have a question for you?

    in that picture....
    is jonbenet's wrist
    in the lower left corner??

    and was the heart was painted
    so when jonbenet looked at
    her hand she saw the
    heart right side up?

    is the heart on her
    palm? it looks like it.

    and now a request?

    would you outline the heart
    as you see it on her hand??

    i do see what you outlined, the letter "F", however
    what in the world would it mean?

    do you think patsy drew that heart
    on her hand?

    do you think jonbenet drew
    that heart on her hand?

    if you look at the pic
    of the portrait....patsy
    has painted a fully
    roundish heart.

    it seems the heart on
    jonbenet's hand.....
    looks like a boomerang.

    i myself do NOT believe that
    patsy painted this heart
    on her inner palm.

    it does not look like the heart
    in the portrait.

    i think a mom would paint
    a heart on the top
    of her hand.........
    knowing if she painted
    a heart on the inner
    hand...it would disappear
    quickly, but
    a hand painted on the top
    of her hand could be
    seen by jonbenet and everyone all the time.
    plus it would stay on longer.

    i think a child would paint
    a heart on their palm.
    but just guessing.

    do you think there are
    other letters written on her hand?

    it seems like there might be a B
    after the F.

    what do you think??

    always curious,
    purr
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2004
  4. Elle

    Elle Member

    No, JIC! I never noticed this before. This is the first mention I have heard of it. Good for you! Good heavens! It is very similar to the Cursive F in Miss Kit's letter. Well done!


    Going by handwriting only, I felt John Ramsey's was similar to the ransom note as well as Patsy's, but it was Delmar England's analysis of the ransom note which fully convinced me it was Patsy who wrote it. Delmar doesn't go by the similarity in handwriting, but by the content, and I can now see why Delmar pinpoints Patsy Ramsey as the author of the ransom note.


    http://www.acandyrose.com/04212000delmaranalysis1.htm
     
  5. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Re: Are you a PI?

    Originally posted by purr


    i have a question for you?

    in that picture....
    is jonbenet's wrist
    in the lower left corner??


    Yes.

    and was the heart was painted
    so when jonbenet looked at
    her hand she saw the
    heart right side up?


    Yes.

    is the heart on her
    palm? it looks like it.


    Yes, the left palm I believe.

    and now a request?

    would you outline the heart
    as you see it on her hand??


    Sure, you can find it in the link at the end of this post.

    i do see what you outlined, the letter "F", however
    what in the world would it mean?


    I theorize it could mean Forever, because God's love endures forever. Or Father, that's also crossed my mind.

    do you think patsy drew that heart
    on her hand?


    If I could say it without sounding like and idiot, I'd say I was POSITIVE Patsy drew that heart and the cursive F as well. The period just beside it is something Patsy does quite a bit in her writing, she adds periods in places she pauses to think or in a place something else should be but it was left out (IMO)

    if you look at the pic
    of the portrait....patsy
    has painted a fully
    roundish heart.


    I never noticed that before, it is quite round.

    it seems the heart on
    jonbenet's hand.....
    looks like a boomerang.


    I noticed it looks open at the top, like the two bumps at the top don't connect, I think it was hard to draw on that spot of her hand, you can see where whoever drew it tried to get the pen to work by drawing a thicker line; like she was some kind of tablet or notepad.

    i think a mom would paint
    a heart on the top
    of her hand.........
    knowing if she painted
    a heart on the inner
    hand...it would disappear
    quickly, but
    a hand painted on the top
    of her hand could be
    seen by jonbenet and everyone all the time.
    plus it would stay on longer.


    That's true, in the event that it had been drawn on her hand while she was alive; I think it was written after she was killed as a token that would remain with her (and possibly even go unnoticed or passed off as something she did herself) JonBenet did not write this, she was six, I highly doubt she started writing in cursive in the 24hours prior to her murder.


    do you think there are
    other letters written on her hand?

    it seems like there might be a B
    after the F.

    what do you think??


    I didn't see any other letters, though I do see a period just after the F inside the heart. I barely noticed this at all, I just wanted to get a better look at the shape of the 'heart' and it appeared there; I thought I was crazy.
     
  6. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Oops!! there ya go.

    This is a pretty crappy outlining job, the basic shape is what I see though. Does anyone else notice the top of the heart is broken open??
     
  7. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Elle,

    I thought the F's were similar too, even right down to the way it's crossed in the middle; the only difference I could see was the little 'foot' on the bottom, this does not happen in the letter to Miss Kit.

    I agree about Delmar Englands analysis, I read it a long time ago and didn't really 'get it' but a little while ago, Dejanu suggested I read it and I was just sold; that man needs a medal and the key to his hometown!!
     
  8. purr

    purr Active Member

    you are so nice to answer all my questions

    i really appreciate that..........!

    and i agree it looks like patsy did write
    that "F" and no one else...

    but i see the heart differently not that
    it matters.........well, kind of.

    can you email me the heart and let me
    draw the heart i think i see??

    elrehip28@aol.com

    thanks,
    purr
     
  9. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Re: you are so nice to answer all my questions

    Originally posted by purr
    i really appreciate that..........!

    No problem at all. :)


    but i see the heart differently not that
    it matters.........well, kind of.


    I'm interested to know your thoughts, I only call it a heart because that's what was noted in the autopsy; kind of like why I say 'wine cellar', when it's clearly never seen an entire bottle of wine at once (although during Patsy's wrapping session I suspect a wine glass broke down there JMO)

    can you email me the heart and let me
    draw the heart i think i see??


    Sure, I'll send it right now.

    elrehip28@aol.com
     
  10. purr

    purr Active Member

    cool..........

    i will have to email you back with my etching of the heart..

    i just think it is shaped differently.......
    thus my conclusion that a child drew it
    and NOT an adult/Patsy.

    thanks,
    purr

    waiting patiently for your email
    of the pic of her hand.
     
  11. Elle

    Elle Member

    the wine cellar

    Purr,

    I remember reading the Boulder Police named this windowless room "the wine celler" to distinguish it from the other rooms in the basement because there were so many. The basement was like a maze from what I've read.
     
  12. purr

    purr Active Member

    elle, i think justincase made..

    the comment about the wine cellar.

    not me...
    but it's ok,
    purr
     
  13. Elle

    Elle Member

    Sometimes it's hard to tell if the name isn't against the quote, Purr. JIC will see it, I'm sure.

    The following article relating to the drawn heart on JonBenét's hand has probably been discussed many times on the forums. I know I have discussed it a lot. It's one of Patsy's famous "I can't remember" episodes. My friend "Cleej" from CN2000 asked me to post this in the heart thread, just in case some posters haven't read about it. She oftens reads here. Thanks Cleej for the kind thought.

    The National Enquirer dated Dec. 2, 2003. Page #37 At Acandyrose.

    DeMuth then led Patsy back to the heart on JonBenet's hands.

    Demuth: What was your reaction when you saw that heart on her hand?

    Patsy: Well, I just thought Daphne must have done it or something, you know,
    they were playing the night before...that was a pretty good little heart, you
    know, I mean---pretty well drawn.

    DeMuth: O.K.

    "Patsy's answers seemed to implicate her in JonBenet's murder. But the next
    day, after having the time to talk to her lawyer, she asked for a chance to
    talk about the heart once again---and changed her story.

    Patsy: I think that I read somewhere talking about the heart on her hand.
    And truthfully, I can't---I am having trouble distinguishing whether I actually
    saw that. I just recently read parts of the autopsy report, and I believe
    that was on there. And I just, you know, now I have a picture of a heart on her
    hand and I can't remember whether I actually saw it or---

    DeMuth: Let me ask you this. Do you remember what color it was? Is there a
    color that you recall?

    Patsy: No, I just see a red heart in my mind.

    DeMuth: But you don't know if you read it?

    Patsy: No...just to be perfectly fair, to say that I saw it on her.

    Haney: ....As we go back a little bit, which you brought up this morning, Mrs. Ramsey, about the heart on the hand, I want to make sure that I have got this straight. You said that on the night of the 25th when you put JonBenet down, you didn't recall seeing any drawings or markings, any heart or anything like that.

    Patsy: Right.

    Haney: O.K. And then, in your words, would you tell me when it is or how it is that you recall something about, something on her hand?

    Patsy: Well, I recently read the autopsy report, part of it, and the heart drawing on her hand. I really don't know which hand, I don't know. I don't know which hand. And I heard some talk about the heart on her hand. But I can't be sure that I actually saw the heart on her hand (when) we discovered her body. But I have a visual image of the heart on her hand, but I may be drawing that from things I have heard or read. Can't really remember physically seeing the heart on her hand.

    CLEEJ: PATSY ALSO STATES HERE: WHEN "WE' DISCOVERED HER BODY. JUST DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT AS PATSY WAS NOT INVOLVED IN THE DISCOVERY OF JONBENET'S BODY.

    PATSY ALSO STATES THAT IT WAS A "PRETTY GOOD LITTLE HEART" AND ALSO THAT DAPHNE AND JONBENET WERE PLAYING THE NIGHT BEFORE AS IF SHE KNEW THAT DAPHNE HAD DRAWN THAT HEART ON JONBENET'S HAND. THEN SHE HAD TOLD DEMUTH THAT SHE DID NOT SEE THE HEART ON JONBENET'S HAND THE NIGHT BEFORE. THIS IS DURING THE SAME INTERVIEW! GUESS SHE CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT SHE HAD JUST SAID.

    JMO CLEEJ
     
  14. Elle

    Elle Member

    Good catch Cleej!

    CLEEJ: PATSY ALSO STATES HERE: WHEN "WE' DISCOVERED HER BODY. JUST DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT AS PATSY WAS NOT INVOLVED IN THE DISCOVERY OF JONBENET'S BODY.

    Good catch, Cleej! You're right! There's another slip up added to the list. Are you coming over to join us here? The posters here are all very nice and friendly. I wonder if Rainsong is missing me(?).:rolleyes: Don't think so. I refused to post with her! I didn't need the stress!
     
  15. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Thanks for posting this Elle,

    Patsy: Well, I just thought Daphne must have done it or something, you know, they were playing the night before...that was a pretty good little heart, you know, I mean---pretty well drawn.

    IMO, all the filler words (underlined) were just seconds bought for her to think, she didn't think this would have come up obviously; she's nervous and using "you know", typically when asked questions directly related to the body, the scene, or the ransom note.

    Patsy: I think that I read somewhere talking about the heart on her hand. And truthfully, I can't---I am having trouble distingishing whether I actually saw that. I just recently read parts of the autopsy report, and I believe that was on there. And I just, you know, now I have a picture of a heart on her hand and I can't remember whether I actually saw it or---

    "I read somewhere talking about the.." This reminded me of the ransom note's idiotic request "Listen carefully!" Patsy has to be lying here, it makes no sense for her to have read somewhere talking about the heart on her hand, she added the word "talking" and it doesn't belong.

    Patsy: Well, I recently read the autopsy report, part of it, and the heart drawing on her hand. I really don't know which hand, I don't know. I don't know which hand. And I heard some talk about the heart on her hand. But I can't be sure that I actually saw the heart on her hand (when) we discovered her body. But I have a visual image of the heart on her hand, but I may be drawing that from things I have heard or read. Can't really remember physically seeing the heart on her hand.

    Here she won't even admit to reading the entire autopsy report, but note how many times she said didn't know which hand it was drawn on? THREE, why would she say "I really don't know which hand, I don;t know. I don't know which hand." Is anyone else seeing Obsessive Compulsive Disorder highliting here??

    And how about "But I can't be sure that I actually saw the heart on her hand (when) we discovered her body."

    This woman lies like a rug.
     
  16. Thor

    Thor Active Member

    Yeah, good catch about "we" discovered the body. I don't have the NE book in front of me, but Patsy was talking about that morning and mentioned that John ran up from the basement (or up the stairs, can't remember) screaming. Up? I thought he was already "up" stairs, taking a shower. My theory is more reinforced than ever.
     
  17. Elle

    Elle Member

    It's a wonder Trip DeMuth didn't pick her up on that remark Thor.
    I believe we've talked this over many times, but it's good when it comes back again full circle.

    btw Thor "Watching You" was asking where you were in one of her posts. when I mentioned your hat. I meant to copy it and e-mail it to you and got sidetracked. She said she liked you, or words to that effect! :) I take it you go way back "somewhere on the forums" (?).
     
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    You underlined all of them JIC!

    You caught all of them JIC! Frustrating isn't it when you come across something like this.

    What irritates me more than anything else when I read the NE Police Files is whenever the Ramseys trip themselves up, the detectives don't keep badgering them on that one remark they have slipped up on.

    We hear about their changing testimony all of the time, but NOTHING is done about it. WHY? WHY? WHY?
     
  19. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    My point exactly.

    Elle said:
    "We hear about their changing testimony all of the time, but NOTHING is done about it. WHY? WHY? WHY?

    This is something I've often wondered about, I'm definately no expert but I thought when someone lied to police they could be charged??
     
  20. Thor

    Thor Active Member

    I was repeating some of this chit to Mr. Thor just today, these slipups. He can't figure it out either. Why didn't LE jump on these things? I don't understand.

    Elle, I've only been on the forums since 2001. So I don't go that far back with anybody. I wish I had had a computer prior to that. Especially after the grand jury wrapped up in 1999. No, on second thought, maybe not. I probably would have had a stroke. It was bad enough watching the talk shows back then.

    I remember when I first figured out how to use the internet, the first thing I wanted to do was check out the JonBenet forums. That was in 2000 (late) at my niece's place. I particularly liked Justice Watch. But I didn't even get a computer of my own until 2001 so I'm way late in the game. I like WY too (along with everybody else here at FFJ). A lot of humor here, WY makes me laugh my :(:(:( off. Hell, I love all of ya here!
     
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