The Three Issues Concerning Keenan and C.U.

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Tricia, Feb 9, 2004.

  1. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    From what I can see we are dealing with three separate issues.

    1-The rape of two women at a party attended by CU athletes. Lots of booze and Godknowwhat. Keenan did not bring charges to the disappointment of the latest victim.

    2-Officials at CU knew this big alcohol parties with the athletes were going on and chose to look the other way.

    3-Officials helped organize these booze soaked parties to use as a recruiting tool for new athletes.

    Number one.
    I wish there was some way Keenan could find it to bring charges. She had a willing victim who would come forward and testify. Said she didn't have enough evidence. Funny. The Bryant case is a he said she said and yet that case is going forward. Why can't Keenan take this case forward? Here's a thought. SHE COULD CONVENE A GRAND JURY TO FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION. PERHAPS EVEN GET ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO PROSECUTE.

    Number two.
    I have no idea if CU officials knew these parties were going on and chose to look the other way. However I can easily see this happening. Not that the officials ( whoever they are) would condone rape or underage drinking but perhaps, just a theory, the officials did look the other way. Didn't want to deal with it for whatever reason.KEENAN COULD CONVENE A GRAND JURY TO FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION. PERHAPS EVEN GET ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO PROSECUTE.

    Number three.
    This is the one I have the hardest time with. Not only does Keenan charge that the officials used the parties as a recruiting tool but she charges the police, one detective supposedly, obstructed justice when an investigation was launched. This one I have a hard time with only because I have yet to see Keenan offer anything in the way of evidence to support her accusations. Anything is possible I guess. Here is my other problem. This is a horrific accusation yet Keenan does nothing. NOTHING. Except give a civil deposition in the matter. Who did she think was going to handle this Dudley Dooright? I'll save you Mary! Jeesh. Hey here's a thought.
    KEENAN COULD CONVENE A GRAND JURY TO FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION. PERHAPS EVEN GET ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO PROSECUTE.

    If any of these charges are true then Keenan should throw the book at every single person involved. It's disgusting. If true.

    KEENAN COULD CONVENE A GRAND JURY TO FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION. PERHAPS EVEN GET ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO PROSECUTE.
     
  2. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I agree, Tricia

    I would find it highly unlikely that university officials would "look the other way" if females were being raped on campus. In cases where these rapes took place off campus, universities are not responsible for things that happen off campus. College aged students are considered adults. Universities are not parents, they don't police the students. Furthermore, if charges are not brought against the alleged rapist(s), what the hell is the university supposed to do? They can't arbitrarily penalize someone who hasn't been convicted for a crime.

    If a rape happens on our local campus, there are specific criteria for dealing with it. I have never known anything like a rape being taken less than very seriously around here. They sure wouldn't cover it up, and to even suggest anyone in athletics here would be involved in sex parties or using sex as a recruiting tool would be an insult. Students have been expelled from school for a lot less than rape. It's significant to remember, though, that there has to be proof that a crime has actually taken place. An arrest and conviction would certainly be helpful. Making accusations that can't be proven can get you sued, too.

    To assist in obtaining the evidence she needs in proving her allegations in each of the three issues,

    PERHAPS KEENAN COULD CONVENE A GRAND JURY TO FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION. PERHAPS EVEN GET ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO PROSECUTE.
     
  3. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    "The accusation is wrong , inaccurate and false," football coach Gary Barnett told reporters as he read a preapred statement."

    I had to watch him read this statement or else I would never have believed someone could be so idiotic, he has to be lying through his teeth. Here we have him reading a prepared statement regarding a matter that he should be able to address without using a prepared statement, not to mention whoever wrote the statement had knowledge of the issue and was equally trying to quell accusations that Coach Barnett was using women as a recruiting method. Let's not get defensive until we know all the facts and can honestly say without a doubt that these parties were not actually happening without their knowledge; how can they say so quickly that it didn't happen if he wasn't somehow involved with his team to the point that he contacted them all seperately and asked to hear the truth.
    [​IMG]
    "I feel that my professional and personal integrity has been attacked. I have been publicly accused of encouraging inappropriate behavior by my players," Barnett continued. "This is offensive to me, my family, my colleagues and my team."

    Sure it's offensive, he's been accused by several different women of the same things: providing alcohol to minors, encouraging inappropriate the activity to seem "cool" and to attract high school recruits to UofC's football team, refusing to acknowlede any of the accusations made against his players, turning the situation on the women to make them feel as though it was their fault for drinking, the list is endless; I sincerely doubt (after reading this and seeing the video of him speaking) he's telling the truth, and if he's not telling the truth in his statement he's lying to protect something or someone.

    "These accusations are not only inaccurate, but my record and reputation over the past 33 years prove it to be a lie."

    HOW? Because he's never been caught doing this kind of thing or similar activites before? What a crock.

    "Tharp said that neither he nor Barnett would ever "throw away all the values of our upbringing in exchange for a 'W' (win)."

    They'd probably sacrifice their grandmothers if need be, that man looks like he has no soul.

    PERHAPS KEENAN COULD CONVENE A GRAND JURY TO FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION. PERHAPS EVEN GET ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO PROSECUTE.
     
  4. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    But, on the other hand

    there is always another side to the story.


    http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_2640200,00.html

    Ex-QB: Hosting not limited to 'partiers'
    By B.G. Brooks, Rocky Mountain News
    February 9, 2004

    BOULDER - University of Colorado football coaches are selective about choosing players to host recruits, said former CU quarterback Craig Ochs, but he disputes claims that he was excluded from the hosting process because he's not a "partier."

    In a weekend interview with the Rocky Mountain News, Ochs said former CU assistant director Bob Chichester was accurate when he asserted that Ochs might have been passed over as a host because of his clean reputation and religious beliefs.

    But "I think (coaches) tried to match personalities and usually it was done by backgrounds or positions," said Ochs, who transferred to the University of Montana in 2003 largely because of disputes with CU head coach Gary Barnett.

    Ochs, a Fairview High School product who was one of the Buffaloes' most high-profile signees in 2000, said while at CU he hosted three prospects - "two Fairview kids and one quarterback."

    That contradicts testimony by Boulder District Attorney Mary Keenan, who said a former CU athletics department official told her that coaches "deliberately chose partiers" as hosts because it increased CU's chances of signing the prospect.

    "Specifically, what he said is they didn't ask Craig Ochs to host a recruit," Keenan said in a deposition taken in connection with a civil suit filed after a 2001 recruiting party at which a former CU student alleges she was raped.

    Two other women also say they were raped either at or after the same party. Both also have filed suit, and Keenan contends CU's coaches have used sex and alcohol as recruiting tools.

    Hosts are supposed to expose recruits to college life, Ochs said.

    "Hosting varies dramatically; it was basically what (the host) wanted to do the whole weekend. But I'd say, yeah, there is a little pressure on the host to (entertain a recruit). There are parties, of course, but that's part of college."

    Ochs said his recruiting experience was different because he was a hometown prospect and had a girlfriend who was a CU student at the time. He said he was hosted by former Fairview player Robert Haas and "hung out" with his girlfriend during part of his official visit. He and Jessi Burgener, his high school sweetheart, recently were married.

    Recruiting, he said, "was different for me because I wasn't involved in certain things. But it's unfortunate now that the whole team, everybody, is being labeled (by the 2001 party and its aftermath). I still have friends on that team and I know they wouldn't stand for things like that."

    After the 2001 incident, Ochs said Barnett "got very mad about it. And all through two-a-days, he went over those issues with us."

    Ochs finds it difficult to believe any college coaching staff would condone what Keenan alleges.

    "I don't think there's anybody (in coaching) who would do that," he said, adding that in subsequent team meetings Barnett "addressed (the 2001 party) sternly and with authority. But I can't say what he might have done with certain individuals, how he might have treated (the subject) with them." ...
     
  5. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    JustinCase

    anything's possible, but I work at a university. I know what goes on. There are things that happen in any university, but I don't believe Coach Barnett was using women or sex in recruiting student athletes. They have been accused of being involved in three different things. None of them has been proved, because Keenan refused to indict anyone.

    Do you think it's right for Keenan to implicate these people in these serious crimes when she's not even willing to go to court to prove the rape charges? I don't.
     
  6. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    JustinCase I am wide open to anything. I am not taking sides one way or another. The thing I am doing is questioning Keenan's accusations when she is the one with the most power to do something about them.

    It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out some horrible things were true and Keenan sat on her cute little a$$ and did nothing about them. Except whine in a civil case about the what is going on. At least she did that.

    I would be the first one to throw the book at anyone involved if any of these charges are true. I think the truth about the parties and the coaches lies somewhere in the middle.

    Why isn't Keenan doing anything? See what I am saying? She is acting like a lazy three toed tree Sloth. Just hanging around hoping someone hands her something worthwhile. My God didn't she listen to the victim? SHE SAID SHE WAS RAPED....Keenan believes her, says she is brave, and oh yes don't let the door hit you in your behind on the way out because she can't do anything.

    If there are two rapists that have been allowed to go free when in one case you had a victim willing to testify then Keenan needs to retire early. She is endangering the public.

    If anyone reading this knows Keenan for God's sake talk some sense into her.

    PERHAPS KEENAN COULD CONVENE A GRAND JURY TO FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION. PERHAPS EVEN GET ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO PROSECUTE.
     
  7. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    Tricia,

    I was just wondering what you think Keenan should do with this case? I certainly wish you would stop being a fence sitter and make a decision for once! (My tongue is in my cheek here). K?
     
  8. LurkerXIV

    LurkerXIV Moderator

    Keenan

    What? Convene a Grand Jury?

    That's too much like work.
     
  9. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Re: JustinCase

     
  10. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Recruit says Simpson okayed sex

    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_2642755,00.html

    Recruit tells different tale than Simpson
    Would-be football player says woman OK'd sexual contact

    By Sarah Huntley, Rocky Mountain News
    February 10, 2004

    He couldn't have told a more conflicting story from that of the woman who has accused him of sexual assault.

    To one of the visiting recruits who became embroiled in the University of Colorado rape controversy, Lisa Simpson didn't just fail to say "no" before he had sex with her at a party on Dec. 7, 2001.

    According to him, the woman who is challenging CU's recruiting practices invited the sexual contact, repeatedly giving her approval of his actions.

    The recruit talked to police, with two attorneys present, three months after the party he attended while visiting Boulder.

    He was not charged with any crime in connection with the party but lost out on an offer to play for the Colorado Buffaloes because of the controversy. Now 19, he attends school in California.

    The Rocky Mountain News is withholding his name because he was 17, a juvenile, when the party took place, and no charges were filed. He could not be reached for comment Monday.

    In his police interview, the recruit said he and another recruit had sex with Simpson after she came into a bedroom, complained of being tired and griped about people messing up her apartment.

    He and the other recruit, who declined to talk with police, asked Simpson if they could do something to make her feel better.

    "She was like, 'Yeah.' . . . And then I had asked her, 'Like are you sure?' She was like, 'Yeah.' Then she's like, 'Come here.' She was like holding both of us like this on the bed. Like come here," the recruit said. ". . . And then she told us to go get a condom 'cause this girl took out a big ol', uh, bowl of condoms. She told us to go get a condom outta the jar."

    Simpson, who later sued CU, was questioned at length by university attorney Kay Rice about the condoms. Simpson said she did not hand them out.

    "Would you agree . . . that if you did hand out condoms to the men in the bedroom - it was dark bedroom and you were handing them out to men - would you agree that it would be construed by many people as an invitation for sex?" the attorney asked.

    "No," Simpson answered. "I think handing out condoms because you think safe sex is important is one thing. It's not saying, 'Oh, I want to have sex with you because I'm giving you a condom.' "

    The recruit told police that Simpson hugged them and "was sorta kissin' our neck or whatever.

    "And then we was like, you know, can we get some? And she was like, 'Sure,' And then she took off her pants. Took off her panties."

    Simpson recalled it differently.

    "I remember two men taking off my pants and forcing themselves on me," she said in her deposition.

    The recruit described the evening as "big porno." He said he had intercourse with Simpson while the other recruit had oral sex with her. When he left the room, other men were lingering over Simpson, trying to persuade her to engage in more sexual activity, he said.

    Simpson alleged she was sexually assaulted by the two recruits, then bombarded by demands for sexual favors from several players. She said she was so drunk she could only remember "bits and pieces" of the evening. ...

    So, if she was so drunk and can't remember....????
     
  11. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Krieger: If ignorance is bliss, Barnett, CU officials were ecstatic
    February 7, 2004


    Ignorance has been bliss for longer than the University of Colorado has been around, so there's plenty of precedent.

    In fact, ignorance has been bliss since at least 1742, when Thomas Gray, an English poet, pointed it out.

    He was talking about - I am not making this up - going to college.

    Eton College, to be specific, which apparently had an athletic program, although Gray didn't think much of it:

    What idle progeny succeed

    To chase the rolling circle's speed

    Or urge the flying ball?


    Naturally, Gray's context was slightly different. Writing before sport became religion, he admired the idealism of youth, chiefly for not knowing yet how miserable life would be:

    Where ignorance is bliss

    'Tis folly to be wise.


    Which seems to be Gary Barnett's position exactly. There's been one small change since Gray's days at Eton - now the kids know what's going on and the adults would rather not.

    Until CU partisans come up with an ax for Robert Chichester to grind, his deposition in the Lisa Simpson case connects the dots from a well-

    meaning but ineffectual university administration to a pragmatic coach to a sordid party in which a football recruit feels free to demand oral sex from a stranger because he has been promised "a good time."

    His expectation exists not merely in his mind, or those of his fellow recruits, but in those of their CU hosts, as Marques Harris, the defensive end, confirms in his deposition.

    "I think it was expected for the fact that athletes were top college recruits from around the nation," said Harris, who reached a plea agreement with Boulder prosecutors for providing alcohol to minors at the 2001 recruiting party that produced Simpson's federal lawsuit.

    The failure to deliver sex was a mark against CU in the mind of at least one recruit. A CU player whose name was blacked out of a deposition said a recruit told him after the 2001 party that "he couldn't hook up with the girls and that we were weak for that."

    So we know the expectation was there. The question becomes whether the football program and the university knew - or should have known - and whether either did anything to prevent the practice.

    Chichester's deposition fills in many of the gaps. Yes, Boulder District Attorney Mary Keenan, then a sex crimes prosecutor, met with CU officials in 1998 to warn them she thought this was going on, based on a 1997 party in which a Niwot woman alleged she was raped.

    Barnett denied knowing about that incident, or Keenan's warning, until after the 2001 party, which produced more allegations of rape.

    But Chichester, then an assistant to athletic director Dick Tharp and now an athletic director himself at the University of California, Irvine, says he discussed it with Barnett on more than one occasion, and that Barnett "didn't necessarily want to know what was going on."

    According to Chichester, Barnett worried that CU would be at a recruiting disadvantage if it failed to show recruits as good a time as other schools.

    Recent news reports justify this fear. A recruiting sex party is under investigation at Brigham Young University. Lynell Hamilton, now at San Diego State, says he was offered sex and drugs during a recruiting trip to the University of Oregon, but not at CU.

    Barnett emerges as a man caught between completely foreign cultures. This gets to the heart of the matter - the bizarre marriage of essentially professional football teams and academic institutions.

    Walking a tightrope between them, Barnett's instruction, according to a player whose name was blacked out of his deposition, was to "stay out of trouble, don't have your name in the paper." He also repeatedly preached about the dangers of alcohol, players say.

    So when Barnett asserts neither he nor any member of his staff took part "in arranging, creating or encouraging a party of any sort," that's believable.

    And when Chichester asserts he and Barnett discussed "that there are women out there that are there at a party to participate in that type of activity," referring to sex, that's believable.

    And when Keenan asserts, "I don't think that anyone in the athletic department said, 'Get them laid.' I think it's an understanding that rose up through the culture. It's an expectation. It's in the people they assign to host. It's in the lack of supervision," that's believable, too.

    The mystery that remains is why the administration communicated its concerns through Chichester, whom Barnett could - and apparently did - ignore, rather than through Tharp, Barnett's boss, who can't seem to remember much of anything from that period.

    Maybe because the Buffs were after a Big 12 championship, and the administration didn't really want to know, either.

    Unfortunately, as Gray pointed out, ignorance is bliss only as long as it lasts. Not a lot of bliss now.


    kriegerd@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-892-5297
     
  12. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Hey

    ladies. Do you hand out condoms to men for no reason? I do. I do it all the time. Every time I go to a party, I have a handbag full of condoms to give to the men. I don't want to have sex with them though. I'm just a good person who buys condoms for everyone I don't want to have sex with.
     
  13. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    JustinCase

    You do understand that most all of these athletes are considered adults, don't you? You must also understand that CU has no "authority" over their actions. Their parents don't even have that kind authority over their actions. They can do anything they want to do.

    Parties involving sex have been going on since time immortal. It's nothing new. Even if the coaching staff suspected that was going on, what do you think they should have done about it? They can't tell these adults they can't go to parties. They can't tell them they can't have sex.
     
  14. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Let's hear all sides

    Caller was focus of 2002 prostitution investigation
    Woman alleges CU athletic official sought out escorts

    By Charlie Brennan, Rocky Mountain News
    February 10, 2004

    The woman who claimed she provided escort services to young men at the request of a member of the University of Colorado athletic program was the subject of a 2002 Boulder County prostitution investigation.

    On Monday, Sheriff Joe Pelle confirmed his agency conducted a probe that involved the same woman whose allegations about CU are now being investigated by the Broomfield Police Department.

    But Pelle declined to make public a report on that 2002 investigation - the only prostitution case his agency was involved in that year.

    "It is not being released right now because it involves an ongoing investigation," Pelle said, referring to the Broomfield police inquiry.

    "It is not our case, and I don't want to cause any problems for Broomfield."

    Pelle added: "There were a number of people named in the report who were not prosecuted, and for that reason, it remains a law enforcement-sensitive document."

    Police confirmed Friday that a woman contacted Pelle's department to report that someone in the athletic department had hired her to provide escort services to football recruits.

    Saying that he knew nothing about the woman's credibility or the veracity of her information, Pelle said Friday that an initial investigation into her claims indicated they involved the jurisdiction of Broomfield, not Boulder County.

    For that reason, Pelle said responsibility for carrying the escort-service investigation further has been passed to Broomfield.

    Broomfield police spokesman Sgt. Dan Schuler said Monday the investigation will not be concluded quickly.

    Schuler would not detail how many Broomfield investigators are pursuing the allegation, beyond saying, "It's more than one."

    At a hastily called news conference Friday night, CU Director of Football Operations David Hansberg said a woman called him Jan. 29, alleging that someone within the Buffs' athletic program had been using her escort service in March.

    Hansberg said the woman said to him, "I don't want you to think this is blackmail, but I would like you to help me get a job."

    Because football recruiting visits are not made in March, Hansberg said, and because of the woman's request for job assistance, he did not take her claims seriously.

    Meanwhile, CU head football coach Gary Barnett appeared Monday on both KOA-AM and KFAN-AM radio and discussed his weekend announcement that four players have been suspended for the 2004 season-opening game against Colorado State University for violating team rules.

    Barnett said one of those players, while not consuming alcohol himself, had voluntarily reported to him that he permitted a recruit he was hosting to drink alcohol.

    Presuming that the recruit was under 21 years of age, that incident could trigger a misdemeanor charge against the host-athlete of providing alcohol to a minor.
     
  15. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    JustinCase wrote:

    "A recruiting sex party is under investigation at Brigham Young University"

    WOW...This would be the biggest shocker of all. If a coach or anyone in authority approved a "sex to recruit party" at B.Y.U. you can bet those careers are over.
    Premarital sex is one of the biggest no-no's next to murder.

    Once again two separate issues.

    Did the coach at C.U. know these wild parties were going on and just looked the other way? Perhaps. Wouldn't surprise me either way if he did or didn't.

    Did the coach at C.U. actively organize "sex for recruiting" parties like Keenan alleges? This is the charge that is most disturbing to me. It is a horrendous charge. Keenan makes it yet does nothing. Keenan is the ONE PERSON WHO COULD DO SOMETHING. Yet she doesn't do a single thing.

    Thanks Mary. Thanks for being a hard charging D.A. I bet the people of Boulder feel safe with you around. NOT.

    Mary thanks for letting not one but two rapists go. You beleived their stories yet did nothing. Since you believed these men raped women and did nothing how are you going to explain it to their next victim that you chose not to prosecute?

    However if these men are innocent then how dare you make this allegation that would ruin their lives.

    Hmmm how do we solve this situation.

    PERHAPS KEENAN COULD CONVENE A GRAND JURY TO FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION. PERHAPS EVEN GET ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO PROSECUTE.
     
  16. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Re: JustinCase

    Originally posted by Watching You
    You do understand that most all of these athletes are considered adults, don't you? You must also understand that CU has no "authority" over their actions. Their parents don't even have that kind authority over their actions. They can do anything they want to do.


    I'm 22 years old and graduated four years ago, for personal reasons I will not be attending University for at least another two years; I still know dozens of people who attend both college and University and YES parties DO happen, but rarely do you hear that these parties resulted in rape allegations (not just one party but SEVERAL)

    COME ON, that coach HAD to have had some say in it; how did the recruits happen to get to go the CU for this party in the first place, if they are all TOP RECRUITS wouldn't you think they'd be going somewhere with a better track record? That's why Barnett's there and has been since 1999, and one time before that as well, his job isn't to CARE what happens as the result of his "revival" of the Buffs, his job is to make sure those players go out there and get a "W"; I doubt he would have trouble telling some guy who can't get any @ss that he could get as much as he wants as long as he goes to CU- providing the player was an assett to the team there isn't much I can't see him doing to reel them in.


    Parties involving sex have been going on since time immortal. It's nothing new. Even if the coaching staff suspected that was going on, what do you think they should have done about it? They can't tell these adults they can't go to parties. They can't tell them they can't have sex.

    Again, the parties are not the problem; every sociable college kid attends parties. Ego driven males who've been GUARANTEED (not promised) a 'good time', providing they consider attending CU and being a Buff; are the problem, we know that much.

    What influenced them to think this way? Just the older football players?? Not likely, how many of them are that smart?? It's not the players job to hire the recruits, they could have been asked to 'show them a good time' but then even in that case there's the question- If this activity occured in the presence of 6 CU players at a party atteded by double that amount of recruits, are these kinds of activites common place for CU players? Who allows them to act in such a way that does not seem to reflect suspensions or expulsion when allegations are made and proven true? I'm not saying someone needed to walk behind them and remind them top behave, it just goes to show what the atmosphere was like there; and this is based on the amount of supervison these players have been subjected to, if nobody knew it was going on it's obvious nobody cared to investigate allegations that go back as far as 1997.
     
  17. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Originally posted by Tricia

    WOW...This would be the biggest shocker of all. If a coach or anyone in authority approved a "sex to recruit party" at B.Y.U. you can bet those careers are over. Premarital sex is one of the biggest no-no's next to murder.

    my thoughts exactly, and if it's happening there it's happening everywhere (in some form or another)

    Did the coach at C.U. actively organize "sex for recruiting" parties like Keenan alleges? This is the charge that is most disturbing to me. It is a horrendous charge. Keenan makes it yet does nothing. Keenan is the ONE PERSON WHO COULD DO SOMETHING. Yet she doesn't do a single thing.

    If this is being alleged to have happened by more than one independant source at seperate times, you can bet it's probably true. Keenan's a lap dog, when someone who scares her tells her to "sit", she does; that much is clear to me now like never before; no backbone and no balls.

    Mary thanks for letting not one but two rapists go. You beleived their stories yet did nothing. Since you believed these men raped women and did nothing how are you going to explain it to their next victim that you chose not to prosecute?

    Someone should compile a list of all the ways this woman has endangered Boulder with her public statements that support rape victims to their faces but sneakily close their cases and say there isn't enough evidence to secure a conviction; put some careers on the line and some educations on the line (without chance of $$ reimburstment of fees) and see how long everyone stays quiet; she has not one nervy bone in her body and would rather sit quietly while her reputation is slaughtered (rightfully so)


    PERHAPS KEENAN COULD CONVENE A GRAND JURY TO FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION. PERHAPS EVEN GET ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO PROSECUTE.
     
  18. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    The crux of the problem

    JustinCase, is this question.


    None of these allegations has been proven true, because Mary Keenan refused to prosecute any of them for lack of evidence.


    I'm a little surprised that you have assumed that guys all think with their privates, that coaches (being male, of course, they also all think with their privates) know that all guys are interested in is getting laid and therefore they would set up these parties for the new recruits. Do you even realize how silly that sounds? Do you think that during the recruiting process, the recruiters say, come to CU and get all the sex you want - we'll even set it up for you? Please don't tell me that's what you think.

    Once again, even if the coaches knew about the parties that go on at every university, do you think they arranged for these women to (allegedly) be raped? Why do you think the coaches should be responsible for this? Why do you even think they should be accused of something like this when rape has not even been proved and will not be proved because Mary Keenan refuses to prosecute? Do you not understand the difference between assertions and proven? I can assert anything I want to, doesn't mean it's true. I might be making something up because I want attention. I might be getting even with someone. Think it doesn't happen? I know that it does. Unless someone has the intestinal fortitude to take the case to court and prove it, there is no proof of rape. Without the proof of rape, there is no crime. Without a crime, how can the coaches be guilty of being involved in something that has no basis?

    Look, I'm not saying it is impossible for there to be corruption there; I'm saying it's not likely, and I don't believe the coaches were involved in recruiting using sex as a tool. It's absurd. But, I could be wrong, I'm not God. I'm pretty good at figuring things out, though.
     
  19. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Re: The crux of the problem

     
  20. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I think

    this is what they call a stalemate.

    I would take exception to one thing, though, since I don't have time to get into a lengthy discussion right now.

    You said
    Honey, I may be old, LOL, but you are dead wrong about my not being savvy about what goes on today. This old brain has forgotten more than you'll probably ever know, you young whipersnapper. I work at a University. I SEE what goes on. Not much gets past me - believe me.

    I suspect at least some of the truth will come out eventually. We could both be right about some things, maybe wrong about others. I'm willing to give you credit if you're right.

    Just don't underestimate this old woman, youngun, LOL.
     
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