Burke: the final answer?

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Figment, Feb 19, 2004.

  1. Figment

    Figment Member

    Forgive me if this has been discussed before, I'm fairly new to the forums :)

    Now that Burke is getting older, and perhaps wiser, do you think he may be the final clue to solve this case legally? Maybe he's disenchanted with his parents as a teenager, or just at an age of developed conscience? In any case, do you think Burke will be the one to finally come forward to reveal the truth from his own experience?

    Or might he not know the truth after all?

    Just a thought...

    *Figment*
     
  2. Elle

    Elle Member

    You're not alone in your thinking, Figment. Many posters believe that Burke might have some kind of setback later on in life, because of the trauma he may have gone through when JonBenét was found murdered.

    He was ushered out of the house very quickly on the morning of the 26 December, 1996, before the police got the chance to question him, although later in the afternoon, a detective did talk to him at Fleet White's house.

    From what I've read about him, he wasn't as popular as JonBenét was, He kept to himself, wheras JonBenét was more outgoing.

    Nice to have you here.
     
  3. Figment

    Figment Member

    @%~~

    Thanks, Elle :D

    Perhaps interest in Burke's involvement and/or knowledge will be renewed in light of the 911 call's tape being released, seeming to indicate that Burke indeed was awake and in the know during the earlier part of that morning, thus proving the Ramsey's lied as to his rising time and involvement.

    Since his interview following JB's murder, has there been any information as to his current state of mind and/or behavior? Any info relating to him recently at all?

    *Figment*
     
  4. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    That'd be nice but somehow I think he'd have spilled by now.
     
  5. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Hi Fig! Well, now that you bring up this subject, you may recall that John Ramsey testified in one of his depositions that some shrink advised them that Burke could suffer psychoemotional ramifications of all this around age 40. That could well be truthful testimony and accurate assessment from whatever shrink that was. Repression of traumatic events is a very common defense mechanism in children, and certainly if that child had plenty of encouragement to stifle it from parents who just want to get on with their lives.....But whether that ramification could or would constitute a confession or spilling of any beans is IMO unpredictable. What is of greater concern to me is how he is adjusting to life in the here and now. The poor kid's not traveling on full thrusters as far as I'm concerned...
     
  6. Figment

    Figment Member

    Hey there, DejaNu! :D

    I agree that Burke would indeed have a high probability of repression; due both to, no doubt, his parents urging, as well as his young psychological reaction to the situation, whether he was indeed involved or just a witness. I can't imagine him being anything but mentally disturbed as a result of his situation, and that is unfortunate.

    As far as all this damage coming to a sort of fruition at around age 40...perhaps once his parents die, Burke will feel free to reveal more information, if only to get it off his chest after so many years.

    Just a thought...

    *Figment*
     
  7. Elle

    Elle Member

    Recent move to Michigan

    Dejanu,

    I was reading Ginja's post on another thread stating the Ramseys uprooted Burke in the middle of a high school year, and and are now in Michigan. When we moved with our sons when they were in their teens, we waited until the end of their school term, because of the impact it would have had on them. It doesn't seem the Ramseys were too concerned for Burke here (?).

    I remember reading John Ramsey's statement relating to Burke turning 40. Why 40? I think trauma can hit at any age (?). These doctors don't know everything!
     
  8. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I don't think

    Burke is going to offer much new insight on anything. He was nine years old when JB was murdered. It happened over seven years ago. The things he can remember are probably hazy, and the only influence he has been exposed to has been Ramsey influence. He probably has a jumble of mixed-up thoughts in his head, if he thinks about it at all. What's real, what's planted, what's imagined - like I said, he was nine years old.
     
  9. Britt

    Britt FFJ Senior Member

    Re: Recent move to Michigan

    Because maybe that's when a past trauma caught up with Patsy and all hell broke loose - a psychotic episode or something - resulting in JB's death. Didn't Patsy turn 40 right about the time JB was killed?
     
  10. Ginja

    Ginja Member

    Welcome Figment

    I have to agree with WY (seems like I'm always agreeing with WY) :eek: that Burke really isn't "useful" (for lack of a better word) as far as information goes. I have no doubts that at the time of the murder, Burke knew exactly what was going on.

    The 911 tape alone proves, contrary to his parents' claims, that he was awake and out of bed at 5:52 a.m. on 12/26/96. This fully explains why, when JR and FW went up to Burke's bedroom at 7:00 a.m. that same morning, Burke jumped out of bed without question, got dressed, grabbed his computer game, walked down the stairs through the throng of police and friends and the reverend from church without even blinking, and going out to Fleet's car and driving away. This reaction from a kid who supposedly would have awakened fully expecting to get dressed and hop on his father's plane and take off for a second Christmas in Charlevoix and then a trip on the big red boat!

    Not a freakin' word!!!

    Burke also testified that he'd heard voices outside his bedroom in the middle of the night, and that on two different occasions that night, each of his parents came into his room to check on him. He feigned sleeping for at least one parent, Patsy I think. There are posters here with better memories than me and can fill in my lapses. :rolleyes:

    Personally, I think Burke heard it all and knew something was wrong but was too scared to check it out. He probably cowered in his room until he heard his parents down in the kitchen. He walked in on them as Patsy was making that 911 call, and is heared in the background asking what's going on. His father replies curtly that it's none of his business (paraphrasing here) at which point Patsy, thinking she's hung up, and hearing the 'commotion' between John and Burke, is recorded mumbling, "help me, Jesus, help me Jesus." I believe at that point John takes Burke back upstairs, tells him to get back in bed til he (John) comes back for him, and to not talk to anyone or ask any questions, just do as John tells him.

    Of course, afterwards, the Ramseys are reunited with Burke at the Fernies and the kid is under his parents control/brainwashing for the next 7 years.

    Seriously, kids at that age, faced with that kind of trauma, will block it out...especially when his parents are constantly "reminding" him about what "really" happened the night his sister was killed by an intruder. At some point, it becomes his reality, and the truth is tucked so far back into his subconscious, that usually the only way it can be "retrieved" is through another traumatic shock.

    This age of "40" seemingly being plucked out of air ... perhaps John figures by the time Burke reaches 40, both he and Patsy will probably be dead and won't care what Burke has to say.

    For sure, he's got to be a troubled kid. Perhaps his subconscious is struggling to surface, but because Burke may strongly believe in his "reality", he winds up struggling as well. He'll deal with the uncertainty of this struggle by acting out in different ways. Perhaps this 'acting out', in whatever form, is the reason he had to be pulled out of school and moved out of town. I don't know...that kind of stress is multiplied tenfold when coupled with the fact he's going through all kinds of changes most 17 year olds go through.

    Like I said, I don't know. But after reading the ideas brought out in this thread, it looks to me as though the thoughts/ideas brought out here could very well be linked to my question of why the Ramseys found it necessary to all of a sudden pull Burke out of one of the most prestigious schools in the country in his junior year and place him in an alternative school out in Michigan.
     
  11. Figment

    Figment Member

    Thank you, Ginja! =)

    :eek: I didn't know about that! As a matter of fact, I've had trouble finding any detailed accounts as to the content of Burke's interviews. Have you any links to sources on this?

    I think so too

    I also agree that Burke's recollection of the events would be hazy, clouded by various inner and outer psychological factors. Perhaps someone in a highly skilled psychiatric position would be able to sort through his memories and images and find some clues, if not to the actual murder, then maybe to important information conflicting with his parents adamant claims as to the details of that day.

    Or it could be another wild goosechase :-(
    Oh, well.
    Quite the tangled web the Ramsey's did weave.

    *Figment*
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Wow! Really, Ginja? I don't remember that. Where is it?

    Elle, I agree about yanking Burke out of school to relocate to MI during the school year. Had to have been another 911 emergency in the Rs' minds, which opens the field for all sorts of things. Nevertheless, it was a reprehensible, utterly inconsiderate and negligently traumatic thing to put their child through. But then, they ARE good Christian parents, right?

    As for the magical age of 40 timeframe for Burke to start purging, a parent's death, even at that age, is always traumatic and could be a trigger for memories and traumas buried deep in the psyche to start emerging. But absent a traumatic event to trigger it, 40 is usually the time period of yet another great hormonal change in the human psyche. It is the onset of middle age and tremendous chemical changes in the body which of course heavily affect the conscious and subconscious mind. It is the timeframe when alot of previously heterosexual males suddenly develop pedophilic interests and start acting out on those drives. There are all sorts of psychological and medical reasons for 40 to be a "magic" age for the severely traumatized, and maybe fractured, psyche to start purging. Until then, the human mind is also very active with normal life activities, college, careers, marriage, children, etc. and all these normal life events seem to conclude or stabilize by 40 too, freeing the psyche to address it's own wounds by then. I'm not a shrink, but I do have an undergrad degree in forensic psych, so maybe this explanation is touching on the periphery of clarity on the subject.
     
  13. Elle

    Elle Member

    Ah! the penny drops!


    Was just thinking. DejaNu, I come away from your posts having learned something. I just knew you were a little clever clogs!
    My little Franklin Thesaurus gadget is just a hand reach away. :p
     
  14. Shadow

    Shadow FFJ Senior Content Moderator

    Ginja - "Burke also testified that he'd heard voices outside his bedroom in the middle of the night, and that on two different occasions that night, each of his parents came into his room to check on him. He feigned sleeping for at least one parent, Patsy I think."

    Source??
     
  15. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Thanks, Elle! You're right. That sentence is a HUGE word salad. Restated, I'm not a shrink, but I do have an undergrad degree in forensic psych, so maybe this explanation will help make the subject a little clearer. Not blowing my own horn, just trying to say that I have just a smattering of knowledge about the human psyche, but maybe it will help shed some light on the magic 40 theory.

    That's what I love about FFJ. We can all teach each other. I've learned so much here and do enjoy the camraderie.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2004
  16. Elle

    Elle Member

    forensic psychology

    DejaNu, I do love coming here and reading intelligent posts like yours and many of the others. I don't have a university degree, but went to Commercial College and became a secretary. Have held some exciting jobs, the last one in a foreign country as Secretary/librarian in the 1960's, and I feel I had a second education in that one alone.

    It is unfortunate we have all met through the tragic death of JonBenét, but I do feel we all help each other by talking about what actually happened to her, and looking for better answers than we are being given by the media. I am sincerely hoping, someone with your intelligence may just come across something that will stand out. Hopefully we can be of help if this ever happens (?). I was with CN2000 for over two years, but left because of a few arrogant posters. I truly liked posting there, but I didn't need the stress they brought with them.

    I prefer this type of communication with real people than watching
    a load of trash on the TV. I watch CSI and a lot of the court cases on TV, and I enjoy those; also a good movie, but when I'm actually here, I feel I'm really taking part in serious research and feel that I'm helping in some way.
     
  17. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    No pressure, eh, Elle? LOL As long as we live in an imperfect world, there will always be cases like JonBenet's and the only good in them is finding justice for the victim and closure for their loved ones.

    I love your employment history. My secretaries over the years have all been great blessings and friends to me and made my life a better place to be. Now that I'm retired, they remain good friends and some are even posters on the forums! And that's the beauty part of wisdom and knowledge--they aren't confined to just a classroom or degrees.

    I believe solving this case will require dedication, and that's a virtue everyone here at FFJ has, regardless of credentials or IQ. I'm very glad you're here at FFJ, Elle. Your posts are very insightful and I learn a great deal from your feedback on mine. We may never solve the Ramsey case, but at least we will have given it our best shots and gotten to know some wonderful folks like you along the way.
     
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    I had the feeling you were still working, DejaNu. Shadow did make a comment you knew the law better than him, in one of his posts, so I thought you may be a lawyer (?) Now that you have mentioned having secretaries. there's a good chance you were! :) This is the detective in me coming out. NIce you have still kept in touch with them.

    The JonBenét case is the only one I seriously discuss. Takes a lot of time for this alone. I think posting on the forums helps to relieve some of the helplessness "we all feel" of hearing about small children being abducted and killed.

    Thank you, kindly, DejaNu! I appreciate hearing this, and look forward to your posts.
     
  19. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Just a point regarding Burke

    Here, jameson is "supposedly" talking about what Burke said about the night/morning his sister was murdered:-

    I was thinking about this and I really don't believe that the Ramseys would allow jameson to discuss the events surrounding his sister's murder with Burke. The Ramseys spoke about how they had barely discussed it with him themselves and they have been at pains to protect him.

    No way would they allow an unqualified nosy stranger to ask him questions.
     
  20. Elle

    Elle Member

    Don't believe it either Jayelles

    I don't believe this tale of Jameson's at all, Jayelles. I doubt the Ramseys would have let Jameson talk to Burke about anything; not with Patsy Ramsey standing guard.
     
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